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Topic: Adding an engine brake to U320 (Read 1879 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Adding an engine brake to U320

Reply #25
Our coach doesn't have a jake brake, retarder or exhaust bake and it has the 4 speed allison that doesn't lock up until high in 3rd gear so using the engine for added braking is fairly pointless. 

We're heading to Hungry Horse Montana to spend the summer so if you hear of a motorhome careening off the side of a mountain and exploding into a giant fireball, you'll know why!  Hahaha!
Hannah and Tyler Phillips
1993 U280 Grand Villa AKA Pearl
Basement Air
Cummins 6CT8.3
Build Number 4196

Re: Adding an engine brake to U320

Reply #26
(Hannah & Tyler) already looked into exhaust brakes.  (Thread linked below, Reply #64)  Didn't have any luck.

94 U280 Pac Brake Switch
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Adding an engine brake to U320

Reply #27
The secret is to monitor transmission temperature, since the retarder basically turns momentum into HEAT.

On long grades, use the transmission selector to keep engine RPM toward the upper end of it speed range.  That will keep the water pump and therefore heat dissipation up.

So, both retarder and transmission selector need to be used in combination on long grades.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Adding an engine brake to U320

Reply #28
Our coach doesn't have a Jake brake, retarder or exhaust bake and it has the 4 speed Allison that doesn't lock up until high in 3rd gear so using the engine for added braking is fairly pointless. 

I think that if you find yourself a hill, stop, and engage 1st with the selector, you'll find that engine braking isn't pointless.

Descending long steep grades without a Jacob's brake is simply a matter of keeping your vehicle speed below your brakes ability to dissipate heat.  If you're bored, you're probably safe.

Cummins QuickServe Online
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Adding an engine brake to U320

Reply #29
Has anyone used the Jacobs exhaust brake on their motorhome? If so how much did it cost?
Steven Green
1997 U-320

Re: Adding an engine brake to U320

Reply #30
Steven,

With the M engine in your U320, you currently have a TRANSMISSION RETARDER.

You can check with Pacbrake, but suspect you could add an EXHAUST BRAKE.

You could also check with Cummins about adding an ENGINE COMPRESSION BRAKE (aka Jake brake) which is more effective than an exhaust brake.

What is your objective/why do you want to move away from/add to the transmission retarder.

Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Adding an engine brake to U320

Reply #31
Steven, The retarder in your tranny is the strongest way to brake a coach, an engine Jake brake is the second best and exhaust brake (never used by trucks) brings up the rear.  I have several folks in my area that can address any tranny issue including the retarder.
Rudy Legett
2003 U320 4010 ISM 450 hp
2001 U320 4220 ISM 450 hp
1995 U320 M11 400 hp
1990 Granvilla 300 hp 3208T
Aqua Hot Service Houston and Southeast Texas

Re: Adding an engine brake to U320

Reply #32
Steven, The retarder in your tranny is the strongest way to brake a coach, an engine Jake brake is the second best and exhaust brake (never used by trucks) brings up the rear.  I have several folks in my area that can address any tranny issue including the retarder.
While a transmission retarder is a very effective way of slowing a coach on a downgrade, it has it's downsides with increased initial cost, complexity, additional cost of overhaul, overheating transmission fluid, etc. In other words, with a retarder, you pay to play.

Having driven both retarders and Jakes, I much prefer the Jake. Living in the mountains, I think I can speak with more than armchair authority in saying that I leave ours on all the time. It works very well on our steep mountain terrain and with the stock exhaust system, the noise level is never a problem plus it is maintenance free. Nothing worst than being half way down a grade and having the big orange fluid overheat light come on.

How many OTR big rigs have retarders, not Jakes?

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Adding an engine brake to U320

Reply #33
Pierce, I agree there are issues to deal with using a retarder, but it is still the strongest for an automatic transmission equiped vehicle.  Nearly all over the road trucks are manual transmission equiped making the Jake a much better fit and no retarder heating issues to deal with.

Auto transmission equiped fire trucks will have a retarter most times.
Rudy Legett
2003 U320 4010 ISM 450 hp
2001 U320 4220 ISM 450 hp
1995 U320 M11 400 hp
1990 Granvilla 300 hp 3208T
Aqua Hot Service Houston and Southeast Texas

Re: Adding an engine brake to U320

Reply #34
I have been shown the jake parts for a m11 at my local Cummins dealer. They had the parts off on a bench.

My research showed used eBay parts were around a thousand dollars plus another thousand to fifteen hundred for the install depending on what's needed for time and materials.

Afterwards I had the factory muffler removed and a jones 5050XL resonator installed.

My thoughts are that without the restrictive muffler the jake might be too noisy.

In a trade off I picked the resonator and the reduced hydraulic pump power loss by changing the over done factory selected fan controller.  Used 60 hp as the motor got to operating temperature.

Major difference in the drive with the resonator and the less power losing fan controller. More low rpm power.  Much less downshifting.  Better mpg by 1 to 1.5. 

Temp gauge the same.  Source engineering in Oregon has the better fan controller.

My m11 also needed the valves and injectors adjusted and the cam position sensor upgraded and the ambient air pressure sensor upgraded.  Both of those Cummins parts were inexpensive.

You could hear the engine misfiring from the partially oil soaked cam position sensor standing behind the coach with the engine idling.  Shop manager heard it when he walked behind the coach.

New jake parts were $2,500 range I think when I had looked.

Fully rebuilt brakes and a 110/130 D2 valve in the air system added considerable additional  braking with the higher pressure and the brakes ability to not overheat was greatly improved.

With the stronger brakes and the potentially noisier exhaust I put the jake idea on the back burner for a while.

Love to find a jake and resonator are not particularly noisy as I might reconsider the idea.

Hope this helps.



"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Adding an engine brake to U320

Reply #35
Pierce, I agree there are issues to deal with using a retarder, but it is still the strongest for an automatic transmission equiped vehicle. 
But if we live in the mountains, use the Jake all the time here and on trips with toad, and find it works really well, why would we add the complexity and other problems? Almost every trip sees the coach over Donner Summit on I-80. Do you live in the mountains? No offense intended.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Adding an engine brake to U320

Reply #36
Well just from 40 years in the truck and equipment  repair trade, a Jake will be noisy with a resonator. As you know a resonator will just take the harshness out of it. My little ISC has a 4" straight pipe. It is LOUD when pulling hard. Enough so that if you are next to traffic barricades you will close to drivers window. At some point I'll install a resonator to help take the bite out of it. 
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Adding an engine brake to U320

Reply #37
Thanks guys for the feedback, I will check with Cummins and see if I can afford to do it.
Steve
Steven Green
1997 U-320

Re: Adding an engine brake to U320

Reply #38
I have both; a retarder and a Jacobs Compression Brake, compliments of the PO.

My retarder and cruise control quit on Friday. The Jake was great.

Tim
Tim Dianics
Pam Sapienza
Vader PupZilla Labrador Canine Beast (AKA Pup)
Columbia, MO
1996 U320 4000
2021 Jeep Gladiator, Diesel

 

Re: Adding an engine brake to U320

Reply #39
Tim your  coach info would make the info much more valuable?
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4