Polarity problem at home

Topic: Polarity problem at home (Read 1465 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #25 – December 22, 2020, 06:57:14 am

Quote from: MBrooks – December 21, 2020, 11:41:03 pm

. Now we trying to find out why the block heater is tripping the breaker.

It is highly likely that either the cord that plugs into the heating element has failed or the element has failed. Sometimes the cord fails right at the heating element. Check there first for a melted end. While there take an ohm meter and check the resistance of the element. Look real close at the cord for a bad spot where a rodent may have chewed through.

Mike

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #26 – December 22, 2020, 08:53:04 am

Very glad to hear the mystery is solved!

If you don't see the issues with the block heater wiring Mike mentions as being the likely cause, do try simply replacing the circuit breaker, especially if it's original to the coach. They do get weak over time. They're only $5 and available at Lowes.

It's been a few years, and do verify I am recalling correctly (look at your current breakers for the info), but I believe this is the one you need https://www.lowes.com/pd/GE-Q-Line-THQP-20-Amp-1-Pole-Standard-Trip-Circuit-Breaker/1098979

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #27 – December 22, 2020, 12:42:11 pm

I forwarded Michelle's and Mike's suggestions on to RV Roadway. One dilemma we have in Birmingham is finding good technicians with Foretravel experience. May be skilled technicians but with less FT experience.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #28 – December 22, 2020, 01:52:54 pm

Check the outlet that supplies the block heater. Block heaters come in various wattages and if replaced, may be overloading the outlet. Our outlet was melted along the the plastic box so I replaced the outlet with a 20 amp plus a steel box. Block heaters are designed to heat the engine enough so it will start easily in cold weather and are not continuous duty. Remember to turn the block heater off before cranking the engine as a momentary air bubble can cause the element to overheat and burn out.

Buy the Klein outlet test at Home Depot for $20. It shows voltage, GFCI test with delay time shown plus tells is wiring is wrong. A new item and only available at HD in limited supply. See the video and description here: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-GFCI-Receptacle-Tester-with-LCD-RT250/313832938

Pierce

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #29 – December 23, 2020, 09:55:30 pm

Be prepared if the element has failed. That block heater is very difficult to replace. The heater is inexpensive but the labor will be high. I tried to do it myself and failed.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #30 – December 23, 2020, 10:14:53 pm

I have changed the block heater on and 8.3 Cummins and it was no fun.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #31 – December 23, 2020, 10:26:33 pm

Quote from: amos.harrison – December 23, 2020, 09:55:30 pm

Be prepared if the element has failed. That block heater is very difficult to replace. The heater is inexpensive but the labor will be high. I tried to do it myself and failed.

Several members have installed a remote block heater. They are available in both electric and propane. They mount in the engine compartment and have hoses leading from and to the engine. They may or may not have a small pump to circulate the coolant. I have a propane unit but the most common is 110V. This one draws 15 amps so could be also used by dry campers with their generator as this should be enough to warm the engine to start in an hour or so. Amazon.com: HOTSTART ENGINE HEATER TPS181GT10-000 - Coolant preheater -... Engine blocks and cylinder heads almost always have removable plugs where a hose adapter could be threaded in.

Pierce

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Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #32 – December 23, 2020, 10:35:19 pm

Detroit 6V-92 block heaters installed by Foretravel are in the thermostat housing where they are of almost no use. The normal placement is down under the AC compressor mount down low on the block. Changing the block heater would require draining the cooling system. I talked to a Wonderlodge owner parked near us in Death Valley. He had to use ether to start his Detroit even though he had a spare as there was no place to work on it and drain the cooling system at the campground.

So, yes, many block heaters are in a difficult to change location. Like Amos says, the heaters are inexpensive to buy but pricey to install.

Pierce

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #33 – December 29, 2020, 10:52:35 pm

Update on my polarity/ line voltage issue and the culprit, my block heater switch. Both lines are showing correct voltage after the shop disabled the block heater switch. They discovered that the wiring and block heater are shot. As previously mentioned, melted cord and at the Bloch heater. RV Roadway is having difficulty finding both replacement parts. So I will bring Gussie home tomorrow and get those parts identified, located, ordered and maybe installed by a local, mobile diesel mechanic. For now, I will not have a block heater for those rare and early cold morning engine starts. I do have an ether switch on the dash but have never used and doubtful I ever will. Fear of the unknown.
I did get a Klein outlet tester in my Christmas stocking. Will search FF for recommendations for digital multimeter. I love Mrs. Claus.
And I appreciate y'all helping, suggesting and encouraging via the Forum.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #34 – December 29, 2020, 11:06:21 pm

Ether works great on cold diesels but if you have a heated screen, it can go off in the intake. So, unless you have a downstream ether induction spot, don't do it.

What will tide you over is a magnetic block heater. Just plug in and place against the block. Several different wattages available. Available in lots of parts stores, truck stops. https://www.amazon.com/Kats-Magnetic-Engine-Heater-1190X/dp/B08B817WF9/ref=asc_df_B08B817WF9/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=475855943230&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10625082675381075459&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032587&hvtargid=pla-1054288643926&psc=1

Pierce

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Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #35 – December 29, 2020, 11:07:56 pm

Quote from: MBrooks – December 29, 2020, 10:52:35 pm

For now, I will not have a block heater for those rare and early cold morning engine starts.

You have a U320. Why don't you use the AquaHot to preheat the engine before a cold start?

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #36 – December 30, 2020, 12:59:04 am

That's what I was thinking also. I never use the elect. heating element.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #37 – December 30, 2020, 07:27:10 am

MB,

You need to double check but you should need a Zerostart 8600015 about $100 (that does include a new cord though) if you think you need to replace it. I like others prefer the Aqua Hot.

Mike

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #38 – December 30, 2020, 10:04:54 am

Quote from: MBrooks – December 29, 2020, 10:52:35 pm

I do have an ether switch on the dash but have never used and doubtful I ever will. Fear of the unknown.

Good to hear you have a resolution. Your ether switch, system was factory installed for a reason. So was your Aquahot preheat. Funny we have these factory installed tools and redundant systems and never learn how to fully use them. I too have the ether system and doubt I would ever need or use it also, but we should at least know more about it than just that it is there I guess. I'll look in the manual and see what it says later today.
Scott

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #39 – December 30, 2020, 10:33:20 am

Quote from: dsd – December 30, 2020, 10:04:54 am

I too have the ether system and doubt I would ever need or use it also, but we should at least know more about it than just that it is there I guess.

Search "ether" on the Forum. Has been discussed many times. Some like/use it - some don't.

On our U280, the canister was mounted on the frame near the alternator. See photo. It has since been totally removed.

If your OEM ether system has never been serviced, good possibility it won't even work. Might require a fresh canister to function.

Amazon.com: Phillips Zerostart Heaters 8200327 Rplcmnt Start Fluid Cyl,18oz:...

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Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #40 – December 30, 2020, 10:46:55 am

Yes I know it has been discussed, but would be nice to actually read the directions once. I agree probably would never need for my operating needs.
Scott

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #41 – December 30, 2020, 11:29:31 am

Scott,

That's the problem. People don't read the directions and unless it has a temperature lockout that is working, they will eventually use it on a warm/hot engine when they change fuel filters, etc and the engine won't start. The ether will explode with the piston only part way up on the compression stroke and create large over pressures possibly bending a rod, breaking piston rings, etc.

Our old Detroit had a little spring loaded cap on the blower intake where the Greyhound drivers could spray ether on freezing days. But the drivers were trained.

I have seen large blowtorches used on the air intake to start cold diesels.

Pierce

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #42 – December 30, 2020, 11:44:39 am

I used it last year once and then the next time it didn't work. Later I found the the plug had come off the switch. I went to try to
see if it would work and wouldn't work as I believe it has a fail safe temperature control so it won't work when it is warm out. Last week I used it and I let the engine turn over long enough that it didn't fire on its own and then I apply the switch
for a second and it fired right up. Mostly I use the Aqua-hot to warm up the engine.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #43 – December 30, 2020, 12:01:59 pm

So the block heater switch powers an outlet that is mounting in the engine compartment. The block heater plugs into that outlet.
On my coach I had to replace the outlet due to corrosion and the outlet/plug connections getting hot.
I replaced it with a whole new connection box that has an outdoor "in-use" rated cover - like you might have on a patio outlet of your house. The "in-use" cover is made to be watertight with a chord plugged into it - mine has a little rubber notch for the chord to pass through with the cover closed.

For 6V92 owners here's a post I did adding a block heater on the bottom. Piece is absolutely right about the OEM heater:
Alternate Block Heater on 6V92 Detroits

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #44 – December 30, 2020, 12:25:34 pm

Nice link John and excellent post! I did a temp test in Bishop, CA at a campground in winter. The block temp was unchanged in the morning with the heater plugged in all night. The crossover tube to the radiator was too hot to touch so the thermostat heater location is worthless.

The normal location is the one you describe down low on the block where the heat rises and warms the entire engine.

You do have to drain the coolant or it will run out on the ground.

Yes, replacing the outlet with a 20 amp should be done. The block heaters are available in different wattages so easy to heat the OEM outlet. Ours had partially melted.

This is what it looks like. It's not the straight type so don't confuse the two. Detroit Diesel V6-71 V8-71 V12-71 V6-92 V8-92 Engine Block Heater 1500W 120V...

Pierce

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #45 – December 30, 2020, 12:51:14 pm

That's very good price on the 6V-92 heater.

For other engines, here's the Hotstart page where you can look up the block heater by engine model: Hotstart Thermal Management > Performance improving heating and cooling...

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