Polarity problem at home

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Polarity problem at home

December 18, 2020, 10:13:48 pm

Help. I just checked my 2002 U320 to make sure all is ok for low temperatures tonight (27 degrees). Coach not winterized. Normally, I am connected to a 50 amp outlet at my home with heat on. No previous problems.
But now I have one. The polarity lines on the monitor has one showing a reading of 2 and the second line showing 122. I did a quick search check but gave up. I need to ensure that I can safely get thru the night.
I turned off main breaker, then restarted to make sure it wasn't my Progressive surge protector and it showed ok after going through the 120 second check phase. Turned off main breaker again and disconnected each plug; at surge protector and at my extension cord plug connecting with the reel cord that goes into the motorhome. Still showing 2 and 120. Not sure what next step is at this hour.
I have the generator set for automatic; AquaHot on diesel turned off the roof ac which are in heat mode and have unplugged the microwave. Current battery readings are 13.75.
Am I ok for tonight? Or any additional recommended actions until I can revisit tomorrow? I hope a few night owls are still up. Thanks, Michael

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #1 – December 18, 2020, 10:58:29 pm

Unfortunately no easy answer. Your going to have to get a meter and starting at the main breaker see where that leg is loosing voltage. If your progressive is showing low voltage without the coach plugged in, start there and work towards your outlet, and back until you find the issue. If you have power passing through the progressive work toward the coach. You May also have a sticking brush in the cord reel. Try pulling it all the way out and back in a time or two.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #2 – December 18, 2020, 11:02:43 pm

Thanks. I'll go try the reel cord check right now. If not a solution, have I taken the correct steps to get through the night?

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #3 – December 18, 2020, 11:05:20 pm

Quote from: MBrooks – December 18, 2020, 11:02:43 pm

Thanks. I'll go try the reel cord check right now. If not a solution, have I taken the correct steps to get through the night?

You should be fine for the night with AH on deisel. What temps did you set your thermostats for?

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #4 – December 18, 2020, 11:14:40 pm

I don't think the Progressive would let power into the coach if lines were 2/122. Maybe your monitor is giving a bad reading? I'd pull the cover on the circuit panel and measure each line there. It those measure good I'd say you are good tonight. You could also use a DVM to check all the outlets in the coach to see that everything is up to snuff.

see ya
ken

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #5 – December 18, 2020, 11:15:12 pm

Quote from: MBrooks – December 18, 2020, 10:13:48 pm

The polarity lines on the monitor has one showing a reading of 2 and the second line showing 122.

Are the readings you are seeing the voltage on L1 and L2? You said "polarity" but those numbers sound more like voltage values.

If the voltage on L1 and L2 is not "balanced" (IE reading the same) then from my reading on this Forum it sounds like a possible "Open Neutral" situation, which can cause big problems. I AM NOT a electrical expert! See the thread linked below for some additional info:

L2 Voltage Way High

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #6 – December 18, 2020, 11:33:41 pm

Thanks for the link. I probably used the wrong terms but it is the voltage on the two legs that show up on the monitor inside.
Should I turn off the main breaker for tonight and leave everything set to run via the generator. I have generator set to auto start in case of power failure. I assume the basement thermostat controls the AquaHot?
Dan, my temperature settings are 45-50 degrees in the bay and upstairs. But I have turned the upstairs control off and it controls the furnace. Do I need to turn it back on?

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #7 – December 18, 2020, 11:38:57 pm

Bruce,
I did try extending and retracting the reel hose and it did not resolve the issue. Thanks for helping.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #8 – December 18, 2020, 11:49:24 pm

Quote from: MBrooks – December 18, 2020, 10:13:48 pm

I turned off main breaker, then restarted to make sure it wasn't my Progressive surge protector and it showed ok after going through the 120 second check phase. Turned off main breaker again and disconnected each plug; at surge protector and at my extension cord plug connecting with the reel cord that goes into the motorhome. Still showing 2 and 120.

Sorry I can't help with AquaHot questions. I don't have AquaHot.

What model of Progressive surge protector do you have? Is it the portable style or hard wired in the coach?

It sounds like you have a extension cord between the 50 amp outlet and your reel cord on the coach. Is it possible to remove the extension cord and still get your coach connected to the 50 amp outlet? If so, you might try that, to see if extension cord is bad.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #9 – December 19, 2020, 12:07:43 am

Chuck,
Thanks and I have the portable surge protector. I am trying to read and process your helpful linked information. I would have to move the motorhome to eliminate the extension cord but will do that tomorrow.Tonight, I will plug the cord directly into the box as was previously suggested by someone tonight or in the link. If still no equal voltage, I will disconnect the 50 amp power and trust the generator until I can revisit in the morning.
Everyone get some rest and I appreciate each of you and your willingness to come to my assistance.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #10 – December 19, 2020, 12:14:12 am

You can try putting your surge protector between the extension cord and the reel cord. If the surge protector is happy and shows equal volts on L1/L2, but you still show "bad" voltage in the coach, then at least you know the 50 amp outlet and the extension cord are OK.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #11 – December 19, 2020, 12:29:35 am

Surge protector ran thru 120 second countdown and turned green indicating that power from main box to my outside 50 amp outlet box was good. I just pulled the surge protector and plugged extension cord plug directly into 50 amp female in the box. Turned power back on and checked voltage. No change in previous line voltages inside on the monitor. 2 and 122. I will place the surge protector between extension cord and reel cord in the morning as first step in trying to run down the problem.
I am now disconnected from 50 amp power source from the house, turned main coach thermostat back on with heat set on 50 and have generator set on auto. Hopefully, generator will start as designed, as needed.
And that's it for tonight. thanks

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #12 – December 19, 2020, 12:36:14 am

I use my rig all winter. I leave the front and bathroom thermostat set at 50 degrees and the the bedroom thermostat can be set at
35 degrees and if you want it lower open the shower door. Pull all the blinds down and I put sliver bubble wrap on the windshield.
Set the wet bay thermostat at 35 to 40 degrees. Turn off the inverter as that will save the battery. If you have good batteries the
generator shouldn't be needed. In fact the batteries shouldn't be below 12.5. When I was bringing the coach home it got down to
0 F and the coach was fine.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #13 – December 19, 2020, 08:09:37 am

For trouble shooting the AC electrical system, two indispensable tools (IMHO) are a good quality digital multimeter and the device linked below: a Kill A Watt meter. You can walk around the coach and plug the Kill A Watt meter into all the AC outlets to do a quick check of the power status. If either 50 amp HOT leg is carrying abnormal voltage it will show on the meter at one (or more) of the outlets. Your coach electrical diagrams will tell you if a particular outlet is on L1 or L2.

Kill A Watt is also a great tool for monitoring generator output (volts/frequency) and for evaluating individual appliance power consumption.

Highly recommended! Can usually be purchased at Lowes, Home Depot, big hardware stores, and often at Walmart.

Kill A Watt Meter - Electricity Usage Monitor | P3

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #14 – December 19, 2020, 09:41:11 am

OK, here goes - have been there before and it's generally a simple issue.

2/122 means your powerline monitor says you have 1 leg of 50 amp working and 1 leg not. (this may or may not be true - keep reading)

The powerline monitor is a simple device that plugs into 2 outlets, one on each power leg. The "2" is a phantom number. It's simply a calibration error and don't worry about it.

The FIRST thing to look at is the breaker box on the foot of the bed. Start with the 2 breakers that mention power line monitor. Flip them completely off and back on. See if that fixes it.

The breakers get old and weak over time, especially the lowest ones in the breaker box since they're closest to the engine heat. We had to replace several in our '03 years ago and we had exactly the same symptoms you do. BTW they are standard household breakers you can buy at Lowes.

BTW, if that does fix it, you did have both legs of power, just not to the circuit that the power line monitor is plugged into. That's why the EMS said you were fine.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #15 – December 19, 2020, 09:51:19 am

Thanks to all. I'm off to follow up on these helpful suggestions. Not sure if the temperature got as low as projected. Hopefully all is well but I realize that " hope is not a strategy". I'll try to take the motorhome on a routine warm up run today as well.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #16 – December 19, 2020, 10:16:48 am

Use a voltmeter on the outlets behind the monitor. It is probably the monitor that is giving the wrong information. Mine failed in the same way.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #17 – December 19, 2020, 11:26:12 am

Here is an outlet tester that does it all. Use it on both legs of the coach outlets. It tests GFCI, voltage, etc. I had a problem with my new sine wave inverter and the GFCI outlets. The regular testers came up short but the Klein said neutral and hot were reversed internally. Only available at Home Depot as far as I know as it's new on the market. Best $20 investment.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-GFCI-Receptacle-Tester-with-LCD-RT250/313832938 A good stocking stuffer!

YouTube video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfl6UdzC2rc

Pierce

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #18 – December 19, 2020, 01:06:55 pm

Quote from: MBrooks – December 19, 2020, 09:51:19 am

Thanks to all. I'm off to follow up on these helpful suggestions. Not sure if the temperature got as low as projected. Hopefully all is well but I realize that " hope is not a strategy". I'll try to take the motorhome on a routine warm up run today as well.

Hope is a strategy, just more entertaining than good.

Another cheap and easy test for both legs is to plug a lamp or some other simple appliance into an outlet on "this" side of the box, and one on "that" side of the box. Each leg of the 50A should feed one side of the breaker box.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #19 – December 19, 2020, 01:13:48 pm

Pierce, we think this Klein tester is the best and everyone should have one.

We removed our separate 3-light polarity testers & analog volt meters that we had plugged into our homemade 50-amp testbed. And bought 2 Klein testers for the testbed.

Absolutely a simple, much improved all-in-one outlet tester. Even measures time it takes for a GFCI to trip.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #20 – December 19, 2020, 01:34:06 pm

Berry,

I got the last one on the rack at HD. Hope they get more in as I want one for my son, daughters.

FYI, early last week, they told my son they would vaccinate him on Friday at 5:50. He got it a minute early. Start up all coaches, we will be back on the road and eating in our favorite restaurants soon.

Pierce

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #21 – December 19, 2020, 02:18:46 pm

Update. Issue was in the coach not the box, cords or plugs. When I started the engine and generator, (slower than normal start with cold morning) only one line showed 120 volts. So diagnosis and solutions are beyond my expertise and knowledge level. Knowing my limitations saves me a lot of grief.
Called Joe Bowman at Roadway RV and he agreed to take a look. On short notice. So I got my warmup drive completed; all chassis systems were good and checked the transmission oil level upon arrival(ok). Gussie is now with Joe at Roadway RV, just south of Birmingham. I have a lot of confidence in Joe for local service but my go to guys remain Nacogdoches Motorhome Service.
Thanks to all who have commented and tried to help. I have things to read and learn. I have recommendations for several late items for stocking stuffers. Will update after I hear from the service guys. Again, grateful to Forum for your help.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #22 – December 19, 2020, 03:56:14 pm

Quote from: MBrooks – December 19, 2020, 02:18:46 pm

Update. Issue was in the coach not the box, cords or plugs. When I started the engine and generator, (slower than normal start with cold morning) only one line showed 120 volts. So diagnosis and solutions are beyond my expertise and knowledge level. Knowing my limitations saves me a lot of grief.
Called Joe Bowman at Roadway RV and he agreed to take a look. On short notice.

Do mention to him how the powerline monitor works - it could easily just be one of the breakers I mentioned above being tripped or the monitor itself as Craneman says. Very easy to check both of those.

ETA for ours, it was breaker #3 and breaker #9 (see where they are labeled "power watch"). Coincidentally, the only other thing on breaker #9 on our coach was the block heater.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #23 – December 19, 2020, 04:22:34 pm

Plug in voltage meter
Flat US Plug AC 80-300V LCD Digital Voltmeter Voltage Measuring Monitor, AC...
Three in the box for 18$ put one in a outlet with a different leg
Scott

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Polarity problem at home

Reply #24 – December 21, 2020, 11:41:03 pm

Issue identified and partially resolved. Michelle had it pegged. I had flipped the breakers on Friday night as Michelle suggested but with no success. What I didn't factor in during my late night diagnostic quest, with several helpful forum members, was the block heater switch being turned on. My mistake but now I know, thanks to Michelle; it is on the same circuit/breaker. I had the block heater switch on anticipating my warmup drive. The block heater switch was tripping the breaker for that leg. Once block heater switched was turned off, success with 122 on both legs/lines. Now we trying to find out why the block heater is tripping the breaker. However, I now can function with heat in the motorhome on cold nights. I'll hear more tomorrow on the block heater issue. But a big thank you to all who have helped me especially on Friday night.
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