Bulkhead solution?

Topic: Bulkhead solution? (Read 1968 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #25 – April 23, 2021, 11:54:03 am

Quote from: bbeane – April 23, 2021, 11:42:22 am

While much discussion has taken place about the fresh water over fill, and I agree that is the best place for it. It's not the sole cause of the bulk head issues. What about rain road salt, door leaking. Just my opinion.

All the above can certainly contribute to degradation of the bulkheads.

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #26 – April 23, 2021, 12:01:24 pm

I don't understand all the concern over the fresh water overflow. I'll admit that I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but this area of the bulkhead gets soaked every time you drive on wet roads. It gets far wetter and for a much longer time when driving in the rain or just on wet roads. I have examined this area of the bulkhead every time I stop at a rest area after driving in the rain. It's dripping wet. It is my opinion ( not worth more than you pay for it ) that the time spent relocating an overflow pipe for the rare instances when an overflow occurs, would be better spent sealing this area from water intrusion from water spray from the rear duals.
If I'm missing something here, then by all means please inform me so I'll understand all this concern over the fresh water overflow.
Submitted with all do respect to those whom disagree.

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #27 – April 23, 2021, 12:07:40 pm

Another factor sometimes not considered is the hole prep for the bolts holding things together.
I quote Holo-Krome here: "Drill sizes provide for maximum allowable runout and bow of longest standard screws and for some misalignment of holes in parts to be fastened. In order to avoid any risk of interference with the radius under the head (of the bolt) it will be necessary to countersink slightly all recommended clearance bolt holes.
I personally have seen leakage as a result of not chamfering clearance holes.
Such a simple step to do to when prepping for assembly between two disparate materials.
We all do it--I do it. Most of the times no harm. But who knows in this case of bulkhead assembly.
Such a little thing but history has shown the results of ignoring "little things".

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #28 – April 23, 2021, 12:13:06 pm

I think I posted before that as soon as I found out about bulkhead issues on the forum, I used Pennzoil undercoat treatment and sealed that area up including the bolts themselves. It makes it a pain to scrape the bolt head to check torque but rather that than worry about water intrusion.

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #29 – April 23, 2021, 12:23:25 pm

Quote from: Doyle3131 – April 22, 2021, 09:05:24 pm

Back to an earlier discussion: are there current sources for the Roloks? I plan to use through-bolts for front and rear bulkheads on my U225, but I have a little rust on some of the Roloks holding the bottom floor up to the bay wall bulkheads. I don't want any rust on those bolts and I don't think through-bolts would be practical there.

Here is a link to a thread I did regarding using through fasteners on the basement floor to compartment walls and the problems of reusing Roloks for this purpose.
Basement fastener updates...

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #30 – April 23, 2021, 12:29:46 pm

Quote from: Don & Tys – April 23, 2021, 12:23:25 pm

Here is a link to a thread I did regarding using through fasteners on the basement floor to compartment walls...

There are the standard solutions to any given mechanical project, and then there's Don's way of doing it. He sets a high bar, indeed.

After all his laborious frame restoration efforts, Don's coach is now built stronger than the RMS Titanic!

(On second thought, perhaps not the best analogy...)

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #31 – April 23, 2021, 12:44:48 pm

Quote from: FourTravelers – April 23, 2021, 12:01:24 pm

I don't understand all the concern over the fresh water overflow. I'll admit that I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but this area of the bulkhead gets soaked every time you drive on wet roads. It gets far wetter and for a much longer time when driving in the rain or just on wet roads.

Yes, the 1/4" thick ANGLE ("L" shaped piece where you see the heads of the Rolock bolts) does get wet. No problem.

It is the box beams into which the Rolocks screw that are vulnerable to water in the wet bay as that water seeps down into the basement "sandwich" and rusts those thin-wall box beams.

So, indeed, most of the rear bulkhead failures I have seen on inspections is caused by water getting into the basement sandwich from the wet bay.

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #32 – April 23, 2021, 01:14:24 pm

Our U300's bulkhead and angle iron were really clean when we bought it. As I previously posted, I used a chisel and single jack to spread the angle iron and tubing apart to see if there was any rust present and was surprised what the back side of the angle iron looked like. What you see in the photos represents the amount of rust I could get out in about 2 feet. I used a Sawzall to loosen and break off chunks of rust. None of this came from tank overflow but from just driving in wet conditions where road spray gets on the angle iron and drains down into the back of the angle iron. I also had quite a few Roloks fail in the exact area where the rust was removed. You can see the one Rolok in the photo and where it failed. As I said, the angle iron looks like new on the bottom, top, etc. And all this is from a very rust free (from all appearances) coach.

Pierce

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #33 – April 23, 2021, 01:21:46 pm

I would suggest if most of that rust came from the 1/4" angle-- no big deal It is really stout. But, if that amount came from the thin-wall box beams immediately forward, MAJOR problem. Most likely some of each.

Yes, absolutely, the angle can rust. But it is really robust. I have never seen a failed bulkhead where the angle was the failure. Angle rust jacking and breaking Rolocks-- sure.

Failed box beams absolutely.

Rolocks usually break from rust jacking where they start into the "closest to angle" side/first side of the box beam).

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #34 – April 23, 2021, 02:34:43 pm

Yes, the big angle is really stout and very fortunate that it is. Also fortunate it that most of the rust and failed Roloks are on the curb side where the most water and chemicals are thrown up behind the tire tracks both front and rear. The crown in the road keeps the left side from having as many failures. I did drill and stick a borescope in the tubing to make sure there was. no internal rust. Yes, rust jacking and hydrogen embroilment weakens the Roloks until they fail.

And you can see the broken Rolok failed just about where water ran down between the angle iron and the tin bulkhead.

You could spray undercoat there but if water does get in, it won't dry and will continue to damage the area. We don't drive in snow at all and try to avoid rain on roads that may have been treated. Not saying that untreated wet roads are same but better.

Once the Rolok fails, you can't remove what is left so have to drill and sister next to it. I went to 3/8" in stainless where I had failures.

Pierce

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #35 – April 23, 2021, 03:21:03 pm

Pierce,

I have had good luck (100% success) in removing the broken remainder of the Rolocks.

Start as you would for through-bolting by drilling an access hole in the fiberglass (to match size of the waterproof plug you have available to seal it when finished.

After drilling through the very thin bottom FG, use a screwdriver or other tool to remove the foam insulation.

Spray down with a penetrating oil and leave overnight if possible.

Double nut the "thread end" (toward from of coach on rear bulkhead). Unscrew it. There are usually very few threads holding the back (back of coach) part of the box beam-- that is where it is broken. So, all you are really unscrewing is the grade 8 Rolock from the thin from wall of the box beam.

MUCH easier to start with that hole to enlarge it a little so you can through bolt it.

Let us know if anyone tries this and is not able to make it work.

Yes, sistering a broken Rolock is fine. But drilling an all new hold is a lot of work from an awkward position.

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #36 – April 23, 2021, 03:50:34 pm

I didn't make any holes in the bottom of the coach but used a 90 degree drill and drilled it with the correct bit for tapping to 3/8". I then bought a long tap so I could tap both the near side as well as the far side. I tapped the holes and then just screwed in the stainless bolt. You are quite right as in several places, there are things that get in the way. One of the reasons for a 90 degree drill. Also hard to drill a straight hole so the far side follows a perpendicular line from the near side.

If you want to use a hole cutting bit, you can open up the bottom and up through the foam, drill 3/8" from the angle iron side and then put a nylock with washer on the end.

Up front by the fuel tank, there is a spot where you can get at both sides. I used a 3/8" grade 8 with washers on both ends. I could torque to grade 8 specs with no deformity on the tubing so grade 8 in 3/8" should be able to be torqued (or nylock) with no damage unless the tubing has been compromised by rust.

There really is no need for insulation in the bottom as a layer in the compartment with flooring over it would do the same thing and allow ventilation below. My 4107 bus was this way.

Pierce

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #37 – April 23, 2021, 04:59:24 pm

Quote from: nitehawk – March 19, 2021, 12:42:36 am

And now I am called a whiner?
These beautifully built and designed machines!

Clearly Not!
Our coaches are twenty years old or so. Foretravel built and still does a very good coach. Yes it's a shame that better corrosion control wasn't implemented during construction or possibly fully recognized. This directly adds to the cost of construction. Stainless steel is expensive and difficult to work with, not to mention heavy.
IMO good metal prep, acid etching, priming and painting followed by proper sealing would of extended the life considerable. All of my bulkheads will eventually get these treatments because there still in great shape and can be proactively compleated. No paint should allow corrosion and no area should be allowed to hold moisture. I think allowing to drain would also allow a pathway in. I also apply sealant tape to all seams inside as I work in a particular area. Eventually it will get done. Manufacturers for everthing fight this problem and it costs them for failure. Drain control, water deflection flaps, proper exit points all help. Personally I probably couldn't afford to have it performed to my expectations.
Scott

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Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #25 – April 23, 2021, 11:54:03 am

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #26 – April 23, 2021, 12:01:24 pm

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #27 – April 23, 2021, 12:07:40 pm

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #28 – April 23, 2021, 12:13:06 pm

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #29 – April 23, 2021, 12:23:25 pm

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #30 – April 23, 2021, 12:29:46 pm

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #31 – April 23, 2021, 12:44:48 pm

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #32 – April 23, 2021, 01:14:24 pm

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #33 – April 23, 2021, 01:21:46 pm

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #34 – April 23, 2021, 02:34:43 pm

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #35 – April 23, 2021, 03:21:03 pm

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #36 – April 23, 2021, 03:50:34 pm

Re: Bulkhead solution?

Reply #37 – April 23, 2021, 04:59:24 pm

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