Tires replacement and alignment

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Tires replacement and alignment

July 07, 2010, 02:49:54 pm

Tires look good but are 7 years old. I've had experience with old tires blowing out so I'm planning on replacing them tomorrow (Thursday July 8th.) The current tires are Michelin 275/80R 22.5 XZA3's. Unless I hear otherwise that is what I'll be getting. Quoted $519 installed, but I need to confirm that includes balancing.

The previous owner had an alignment done at FT in 2005, so probably 20,000 miles ago. This coach does not handle as well as I hear other people say there's handles (120,000 miles, air bags). It has about an inch of play in the steering wheel so it will wander a bit. Am I expecting to much? Side winds and passing trucks throw it around a bit. I have it scheduled for alignment also, anything I should know ahead of time? To re-state: even on a smooth, level road with no wind it won't go straight down the road.

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #1 – July 07, 2010, 03:08:38 pm

I had to replace my front tires recently because they did not have the right load range. That should be printed on the side of the tire. I had LR G on the front (14 ply) and when fully loaded, they were near their max. Had to go to LR H (16 ply)....$500 per tire not including balancing which was another $25 each. I did get a $250 trade in on my old front tires since they were nearly new. The previous owner put on the wrong tires. Be sure to have the valve stem "O" ring replaced when the tires are changed (or better yet, the whole valve stem). They didn't do that in NAC, where I got the tires, and I had a slow leak that required remounting the tire.

My wheel has less play than yours and handles very well in wind and I rarely notice a truck going by.

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #2 – July 07, 2010, 03:44:15 pm

The play in the steering wheel is a real concern. Get your front end checked out. Possible causes are worn out parts or a steering box that is loose. The steering box can be adjusted but if there are worn out parts they need to be replaced. If neither of those seem to be the issue you might consider adding a steering stabilizer.

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #3 – July 07, 2010, 04:06:15 pm

My tires for years are Toyos, 295/75R 22.5 which is the same diameter as 275/80R 22.5.

They cost me $310 per tire including mounting and tax minus $70 for each of my old tires or net $240 per tire.

So my choice was $3114 and maybe plus tax vs $1440 including tax and mounting for a set of 6 tires.

Also all these years, my tires have been dynamically balanced with four golf balls per tire. Always run smooth with no bouncing.

Wife thinks they ride better than the good riding Michelin we took off back when.

My source is Brown's Discount Truck Tires, I-10 at exit 723, Sealy, TX, Jerry Brown, 979.885.6063. He sells several brands.

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #4 – July 07, 2010, 05:20:22 pm

Great to replace 7 year old tires, no matter how good they look.

We only recommend Michelin XZA-3 LOAD-RANGE-H, never get LR-G as they do not have enough spare capacity for our coaches.

Never get powder or similar for balancing as they find their way to the valve core, even with a valve stem filter.

New tires now have DOT date code on both sides of tires. We request all new tires with the same recent date code

We put new out-facing valve stems on the outside rear duals. Original ones cannot be bent. If you go this route, make sure the angle of the new stems do not cause the stem to get near the center hub cover. This will also make it easy to install Pressure Pro tire monitors.

Sounds like an alignment is called for. Find a good TRUCK alignment shop that is recommended.

With an alignment and new tires, see if your wonder is still there. Only after that would I get big parts replaced, unless their looseness is obvious.

There is a lot of passion in tire brands and tire balancing, that work or seem to work for others.

We do not get blown around much from winds or trucks, but we know they are there. You could have loose tie rod end, etc.

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #5 – July 07, 2010, 05:50:12 pm

Tires do make a difference in the way any coach handles. I drive a short 34 foot U270 and it drives straight as an arrow even when semi's pass me going 70 mph as I do not usually go over 60 - 65 mph. The Michelins I have are now 7 years old and these will be replaced with load range H Michelins vs. the G's on now eventhough it's overkill for my 30,000 GVWR coach.

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #6 – July 07, 2010, 06:10:59 pm

All the advice here is good. I took Rudy's advice and went with the Toyo M154s that are load range H. However, they are a little larger diameter than the Michelins we replaced. When we turn the front tires, there is barely an 8th of an inch between the edge of the air bag and the tire tread. Some of that could be due to the wear on our older tires.

The ride is wonderful. Very smooth and stable. Big trucks blow past us on two lane highways at 70+ and we only feel a very slight push -- barely noticeable. We generally travel at 62 MPH. Also, Toyo tires are siped. This provides better traction on wet pavement. Les Schwab in the Pacific northwest will be glad to sipe your Michellins for an extra fee.

We also have Koni FSD shocks.

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #7 – July 07, 2010, 08:25:55 pm

Barry,

I support your comments wholeheartedly, but thought I should share my recent experience: About 4 weeks ago, we had Michelin XZA3, LRH steering tires installed on front . The DOT was 1610 (16th week of 2010), so they were less than 2 months old, but the DOT was ONLY on one side of each tire!

Moreover, on the steering tires, following the directional arrows embedded in the tires, on one side the DOT info has to be on the inside. Wouldn't you think Michelin would have corrected this?

Don Hay

'92 U-280, The Hayfever Express

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #8 – July 07, 2010, 09:51:26 pm

Another view on steering stabilizers, at best they camouflage / hide the real problem if there are any.
A good shop will find the problem if there are any.
Experience
Dave

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #9 – July 07, 2010, 10:43:21 pm

One inch of play seems about the same as I have. Wayne (at FOT) did a FE alignment, checked out the front end components and thought it was fine, normal. It does wander a little and I do have to correct slightly for passing semis. As this is my first coach, I don't have a good point of reference and this is pretty subjective stuff.

I have recently changed to XZA-3 load range H on the front and I havn't driven enough to see if they'll affect it. Do make sure you get the correct load range. Similar to George Hatfield's experience I had new LR G's all around on the coach I bought from FOT, apparently put on by the previous owner before trade-in. With G's, I had to watch my weight and I had little tolerance.

Mike
2003 u-295

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #10 – July 08, 2010, 12:07:34 am

Mike.... I didn't notice much, if any, change in handling when going from LR G to LR H for the front tires. But having 2 more plies (14 vs 16) sure makes me feel better when I'm driving down one of California's poorly maintained interstates (like I-5 north of Sacramento). And as you said, the weight up front is no longer an issue.

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #11 – July 08, 2010, 07:57:31 am

You don't say whether your tires are new to you or whether you've run them for years. In the latter case I'd say you were wasting a lot of money throwing out good tires. If you don't know their history, it's better to be safe. Make sure you know the weight on each tire and are running the correct pressure for the weight. A lightly loaded front end could cause your steering issue.

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #12 – July 08, 2010, 08:17:01 am

No, they're new to me, and additionally, the drivers are mis-matched. Plus a new set should last me, (but hopefully not).

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #13 – July 08, 2010, 10:02:30 am

I went to two truck front end shops trying to figure out why my rig required so much steering...drifting from one side of the lane to the other. The only problem found was a trashed steering coupler (rag joint). By your model year this rubber part had been replaced with a u-joint type of coupler. This fix helped a little but not enough. I ended up buying a Safe-t-Plus steering stabilizer prior to my last trip. It is basically a side mounted shock absorber that applies pressure if the steering wheel is turned in either direction. The only problem is getting it centered properly. It took three test drives and trips under the rig to readjust it so that it is mounted at true dead center. I don't know if it is masking other problems but I do know that it has helped a lot. I still have that one inch of play you describe but once you get past that there is now a tightness to the wheel and resistance in either direction that you can really feel. It also supposedly provides some protection against going out of control if you have a front blow-out.

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #14 – July 08, 2010, 10:50:03 am

We installed Safe-T-Plus on our previous SOB 37' DP coach. It improved the steering feel significantly. We had the trim kit installed. It is a air operated adjustable mount for the fixed end of the Safe-T-Plus. It allows one to adjust the center point from the driver seat. You hold the steering wheel in your "centered" position, hold a momentary contact switch for a couple of seconds, then release it. While you are holding the switch, air pressure is relieved from the clamp in the fixed end mount, which allows the end to move a bit. When you release the switch, the mount clamps the fixed end into position. It was handy for dealing with consistent road crown or wind. You can make the adjustments while traveling at your preferred speed.

I have considered putting Safe-T-Plus with trim kit on the 1997 U295, but will defer to see how things feel on a couple of long trips.

Our coach only has about 65,000 miles on it. The steering is still firm with very little play, but consistently pulls to the right. The pull is slight, but I notice it. We had a thorough service done at MOT. They took it to the Michelin dealer in Nacogdoches for all new tires, and to their favorite alignment shop in Lufkin for wheel alignment. It still will drift to the right. If the pull to the right persists after a 4,000 trip, I plan to contact the alignment shop and see what we can check. There may be weight issues or some issue with alignment of the rear axle.

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #15 – July 08, 2010, 02:44:58 pm

My 36'320 2001 model with about 75K miles, handles and drives very nice but if I had no experience with heavy trucks and had mostly driven cars and pickups, I would most likely think it was a terrible driving junker as I need to turn the wheel an inch or three to keep it on my line depending on wind, road crown, different tires on one side and general condition of road, etc.
Vehicles that pull one way most likely have a caster issue, maybe tire pressure but pulling one way is curred by adjusting the caster, not installing add on "Wonder Equipment", the vehicle was designed to operate correctly until either an accident and or wear and lack of lube cause issues.
Everyone does what they feel happy about, so do what makes you smile.
Again, add on stuff is just covering up the problem. If you can not find a shop that can adjust your caster setting, get your steering gear on high point, and check for wore out parts, look a little harder. If the shop wants to sell you a stabilizer, they are not a front end shop.
MHO
Davd M

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #16 – July 08, 2010, 07:10:09 pm

Quote from: old_nodaker – July 07, 2010, 02:49:54 pm

Tires look good but are 7 years old. I've had experience with old tires blowing out so I'm planning on replacing them tomorrow (Thursday July 8th.) The current tires are Michelin 275/80R 22.5 XZA3's. Unless I hear otherwise that is what I'll be getting. Quoted $519 installed, but I need to confirm that includes balancing.

The previous owner had an alignment done at FT in 2005, so probably 20,000 miles ago. This coach does not handle as well as I hear other people say there's handles (120,000 miles, air bags). It has about an inch of play in the steering wheel so it will wander a bit. Am I expecting to much? Side winds and passing trucks throw it around a bit. I have it scheduled for alignment also, anything I should know ahead of time? To re-state: even on a smooth, level road with no wind it won't go straight down the road.

I owned a 99 U270 that I bought with less than 20K on the clock. It ran straight and true but when a bus or truck would blow by I would feel the air dam wave from the air pressure by the passing truck. In Iowa I would hit 40 mph winds and I would move. I know have an 01 42 foot with a tag. The difference is night an day. The directional stability of the longer coach combined with the tag makes a huge difference. I would second what Dave M is saying. I have put on well over 200K miles on my three FT. Get to a good truck front end shop.

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #17 – July 08, 2010, 07:47:25 pm

What air pressure are you running?

Have you weighed the coach with full fuel, propane and water, with other tanks empty?

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #18 – July 08, 2010, 08:38:34 pm

The front end shop that said everything looked ok (except for the steering coupler) did not sell nor would he recommend a steering stabilizer. Thinking my nearly 20 year old MH was probably lacking, I asked about add-ons and was told "you have enough bars under there." I actually had to go online and order the darned thing. In fact, one of the local reps for the product wouldn't sell me one. He said most people are unhappy with them and he ends up with an unhappy customer unlikely to return. The other local rep sold the unit but sent me elsewhere for the install. I had to go to great lengths to get this thing put on. Again, it really helped but then again I am one of those car and pick-up people who didn't know that these beasts aren't the family station wagon. Maybe these stabilizers are just meant to help us four wheelers keep the thing in our lane on the interstate.

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #19 – July 09, 2010, 03:18:46 pm

Wow, lots of experience. So the good news bad news - I took it to a truck alignment shop. They checked it all over, nothing loose, so he suspects the play is in the steering box itself, which possibly can be adjusted out. Needs to go to a truck mechanic for that. Alignment wasn't terrible, a little toe out which he adjusted. I think that helped a little, but of course the wind wasn't blowing on the way home to really tell.

Tires - also good news bad news. Good news, they looked at the old tires and offered me $100 apiece for them, farmers use them on their grain trucks. Bad new - he didn't have any new tires. He'd assumed LR G, so was shocked when I said I wanted H's. Took call to 3 places to come up with 6 tires. Michelin supplier said H's are on 2 month backorder. Funny part was, turned out he didn't have any G's either. So re-scheduled for install next Friday.

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #20 – July 09, 2010, 03:30:32 pm

one other thing you may want to check is the steering gear box that mounts to the frame, That controls the operation that makes the steering control arm turn the front tires. After years of use two things can happen; 1) that assembly can become loose from the frame, (rarely does this happen), or 2) the gears within that unit get worn and need to be re-adjusted (play/slop develops between the gears) a Good truck front-end shop can adjust that play out of the system. I think an inch of "Play" is excessive.

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #21 – July 09, 2010, 08:44:06 pm

Make sure the "new" tires are fresh when they arrive. I always specify that I'll only accept tires that have been manufactured in the last six months. If "H" tires are on backorder, that may mean they are coming from a national warehouse where they've been sitting awhile during the market downturn.

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #22 – July 11, 2010, 09:13:39 am

Quote from: old_nodaker – July 09, 2010, 03:18:46 pm

Wow, lots of experience. So the good news bad news - I took it to a truck alignment shop. They checked it all over, nothing loose, so he suspects the play is in the steering box itself, which possibly can be adjusted out. Needs to go to a truck mechanic for that. Alignment wasn't terrible, a little toe out which he adjusted. I think that helped a little, but of course the wind wasn't blowing on the way home to really tell.

Going over some past posts, I came across this jewel, "Alignment shop says maybe some play in the steering box, and take it to a truck mechanic for adjustment"

If the alignment shop does not have the skill to adjust the box and that is his business, I would be seeking another truck alignment shop.

Generally, truck mechanics are very good at what they do, what they do is not front end alignment work.
Front end alignment and steering gear box adjustment is not within the scope or experience of the general line mechanic.
At least I would head to a Kenworth, Peterbuilt or Freightliner dealership and ask the shop foreman where they send their problem front end work, I assume he will have a clue.
As usual MHO
Dave M

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #23 – July 11, 2010, 06:56:05 pm

Yes, I thought it a little strange that they couldn't solve it. BUT - there's always a but - the PO had left his/her Foretravel Motorcade Club "Curriculum for motor-home driving" binder in the coach and I was reading it last night. On page 1-3, and I quote "Check the play in your steering wheel. As you turn the wheel left and right, you should feel tension after turning the wheel 1 to 2 inches." End of quote. So I guess what I have is normal. I'll see how it handles after the new tires are put on and if it's still a problem I'll call FT technical support.

Re: Tires replacement and alignment

Reply #24 – July 11, 2010, 07:14:57 pm

Old,

Try a set of eight new Koni FSD's shock absorbers, really decreased the "play" on center in my steering -

Tim Fiedler 2000 U-320 4010

Quote

Yes, I thought it a little strange that they couldn't solve it. BUT - there's always a but - the PO had left his/her Foretravel Motorcade Club "Curriculum for motor-home driving" binder in the coach and I was reading it last night. On page 1-3, and I quote "Check the play in your steering wheel. As you turn the wheel left and right, you should feel tension after turning the wheel 1 to 2 inches."

So I guess what I have is normal. I'll see how it handles after the new tires are put on and if it's still a problem I'll call FT technical support.

1996 U270

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