Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Maintaining AV Power (Read 847 times) previous topic - next topic

Maintaining AV Power

We are on our first "big" trip in the 1997 U295 that we bought in April. The coach came with a Datron Satellite antenna. I added a second receiver to our DirecTV account and put it in the coach. I wired a dedicated 140 Watt inverter to the house 12V circuit in order to keep the DirecTV unit running throughout 120 VAC power transitions between shore, inverter, and generator. The disk has tracked pretty well. We have enjoyed "Malt Shop Oldies" from DirecTV with NO commercials during our trip from southeast Texas to Montana.

The dedicated inverter keeps the DirecTV receiver on as long as the house batteries are on. When the receiver was on the house 120VAC circuit, it would reboot almost every time we changed the power source. Each time the receiver rebooted, the dish would lose power to the LNB and started scanning the sky. It was difficult to keep things working.

The XM radio would probably be much easier to operate, but we have been pleased with the "tunes" on DirecTV.
J D Stevens
1997 U295 CAI 36' Build #5085
2002 Subaru Outback
Motorcade 16869
Bellville, TX

Re: Maintaining AV Power

Reply #1 –
Quote from: J. D. Stevens –
The dedicated inverter keeps the DirecTV receiver on as long as the house batteries are on. When the receiver was on the house 120VAC circuit, it would reboot almost every time we changed the power source. Each time the receiver rebooted, the dish would lose power to the LNB and started scanning the sky. It was difficult to keep things working.

If this is going to split off into satellite radio tidbits of wisdom, we need to split the topic, BUT

JD
We also have an old Datron (4000) In-Motion System and use a DirecTV subscription.  Someday we'll upgrade to HD receivers and BluRay but, for now this system works just fine and has been extremely reliable for us!  We originally chose and installed (in 1999, prior to XM and Sirius) as much for the DTV Music Channels as for the TV.  It has reliably worked fine unless the Southwestern horizon is obscured (actually, from the far Northeast, I believe the satellites are parked in the direction of or over Texas), which can sometimes be a challenge in parking the coach or in driving southbound highways with tall trees to the immediate west of the highway.
I keep the Inverter/Charger enabled and on at all times, whether parked, moving or in storage, and have never had to reboot the DTV receiver due to power changes.  Does your DTV power outlet behave differently?
Regards,
Neal 
The selected media item is not currently available.
Neal (& Brenda) Pillsbury
'02 U320 SPEC, 4200, DGFE, Build #5984
'04 Gold Wing
'07 Featherlite 24'
'14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit
MC #14494
Exeter, NH & LaBelle FL
Quality makes the Heart Soar long after Price is Forgotten

Re: Maintaining AV Power

Reply #2 –
Quote
I keep the Inverter/Charger enabled and on at all times, whether parked, moving or in storage, and have never had to reboot the DTV receiver due to power changes.  Does your DTV power outlet behave differently?

When my generator turns off , My TIVO reboots everytime.
I tried adding a UPS but it did not help.
So I added an 800 watt inverter & run the Tivo & sat dish on it anytime I am on Generator.
Additional Inverter
The selected media item is not currently available.Barry BEAM #16014
2003 U320 40' AGDS
Beamalarm, Foretravel technical help and specifications
"Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve"

Re: Maintaining AV Power

Reply #3 –
Neal,

Even if I have the inverter on, the outlet for the DirectTV would briefly go dead during a power change, causing the DirecTV receiver to reboot.

If I understand the "110V ELECT RELAY SYSTEM WIRING" diagram correctly, there will be an interruption to "CIRCUIT BREAKER BOX #2" any time that a "PRIMARY POWER SOURCE" is changed. The interruption may be very brief. Some appliances will survive the change without resetting, and others will reset. My experience with our DirecTV unit, an R16-300, is that it resets and takes a long time to reestablish full functionality. The unit is a DVR. Units that are receivers without the DVR will probably reset much faster.
J D Stevens
1997 U295 CAI 36' Build #5085
2002 Subaru Outback
Motorcade 16869
Bellville, TX

Re: Maintaining AV Power

Reply #4 –
Quote


When my generator turns off , My TIVO reboots everytime.

I tried adding a UPS but it did not help.

So I added an 800 watt inverter & run the Tivo & sat dish on it anytime I am on Generator



Barry,

I may have a solution for the Tivo rebooting every time you shut down the generator.  It works for me 100% and has worked for anyone to whom I have shown it and who have tried it.  The reason it reboots, at least in my case, is that the voltage drops as the generator winds down and it gets below the critical voltage for the Tivo before the inverter switches over.  I go to the coach breaker panel and flip off the main breaker.  When that happens the inverter switches quickly enough that the Tivo never "sees" low voltage and just keeps chugging along.  Then I turn off the generator followed by flipping the main breakers back to the on position so everything is ready for the next generator session.

Give it a try, it just might work for you.

Paul 36' 2000 U320

Quote

I keep the Inverter/Charger enabled and on at all times, whether parked, moving or in storage, and have never had to reboot the DTV receiver due to power changes.  Does your DTV power outlet behave differently?



When my generator turns off , My TIVO reboots everytime.

I tried adding a UPS but it did not help.

So I added an 800 watt inverter & run the Tivo & sat dish on it anytime I am on Generator. Additional Inverter

Barry BEAM  #16014

Coach Build # 6024

Villa Park CA 03 U320 40' AGDS 03 Acura MDX
FORETRAVEL Motorhomes service and Repair Information
foretravel motorcade - california chapter

"Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve"
Paul
36' 2000 U320
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit

Re: Maintaining AV Power

Reply #5 –
Quote
Barry,
I may have a solution for the Tivo rebooting every time you shut down the generator.  It works for me 100% and has worked for anyone to whom I have shown it and who have tried it.  The reason it reboots, at least in my case, is that the voltage drops as the generator winds down and it gets below the critical voltage for the Tivo before the inverter switches over.  I go to the coach breaker panel and flip off the main breaker.  When that happens the inverter switches quickly enough that the Tivo never "sees" low voltage and just keeps chugging along.  Then I turn off the generator followed by flipping the main breakers back to the on position so everything is ready for the next generator session.

Paul,
You are correct.
Thanks for reminding me of that.
Sometimes that is more convenient.
"Karma" to you  :)
I read that some time ago when there was a long running thread about this issue and forgot about it, after I installed the 800 w inverter.
I installed it after meeting Dick Mason & he showed me his installation.
I have a light switch that I can switch to run off either inverter.
When I dry camp I turn off the Prosine because it uses too much power & I run off the new inverter which draws 1/2 amp on standby.


The selected media item is not currently available.Barry BEAM #16014
2003 U320 40' AGDS
Beamalarm, Foretravel technical help and specifications
"Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve"

Re: Maintaining AV Power

Reply #6 –
JD,
IEEE has attempted to define power perturbations into 7 categories.

APC, a Power Conditioning and UPS device Manufacturer, has a very good white paper that summarizes the IEEE standard on power perturbations.  Page 17 of the white paper is particularly good. 

 http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/VAVR-5WKLPK_R1_EN.pdf

You have determined that your DirecTV DVR power outlet has voltage interrupted during the power transfer (goes dead for a moment), which means that a battery backup UPS - of sufficient speed - (like the APC products for computers) is the only cost effective ELECTRONIC solution to the problem.  You either have to reduce or eliminate the voltage interruption, in order to satisfy the DVR's dislike of the incoming power supply voltage fluctuation.  They used to put sufficient input power capacitors into electronic devices to prevent this sort of frustration and inconvenience, but no longer.  Capacitors fail, leak and are expensive in comparison to mircotechnology.
Paul's MECHANICAL solution REDUCES the fluctuation by opening the incoming power breaker (which causes a very fast electronic transfer of the inverter supplied outlets to inverter power), then stopping the running generator, then re-closing the incoming power breaker.  It gets around the (much slower) mechanical automatic transfer switch ATS "break-before-make" power transfer, complicated by, if the inverter is on,  the inverter trying to assume the power demand load, right in the middle of the transition.
Barry's  second inverter ELIMINATION solution removes the power supply fluctuation altogether (the one that occurs as the Generator slows down and the ATS shifts to Shore Power or the Inverter takes over the power demand).  Barry's solution is great for dry camping power conservation as well as treating the sensitive (TIVO) or DVR devices with gentleness.
It would serve us all well to always remember to minimize our power loads, prior to opening any power path, in order to reduce the arcing on switching device contacts.  And we should also try to protect sensitive electronic equipment with an appropriate Power Conditioning or Battery Backed UPS device because expensive electronics WILL fail due to power supply perturbations  And , unlike in the more stable, stick built home environment, we are exposing "home-shelf-designed electronics" to a variety of power supply fluctuations on a regular basis, both from outside the coach and from our own internal power generation and power switching devices.  Many Inverters and even our Generators, produce very crude power waveforms and especially crude and frequent power transitions.  Several inverters and generators have become even less desirable, with newer generations, due to the higher competitive pressures on profit margins and the urgency to reduce component manufacturing costs.
Regards,
Neal
 
The selected media item is not currently available.
Neal (& Brenda) Pillsbury
'02 U320 SPEC, 4200, DGFE, Build #5984
'04 Gold Wing
'07 Featherlite 24'
'14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit
MC #14494
Exeter, NH & LaBelle FL
Quality makes the Heart Soar long after Price is Forgotten

Re: Maintaining AV Power

Reply #7 –
Never noticed this.  I'd seen the fuse descriptions stapled under the dash on the driver's side but over there on the passenger side is the original allignment specs along with my coach number: 4070.
Dwayne Keith
1992 U240
3116/MD3060

Re: Maintaining AV Power

Reply #8 –
A great solution for a DVR or other device that re-boots on power transfer is to use a separate inverter to power the DVR.  Others have found this to be the only solution that works.