VMSpc and MPG

Topic: VMSpc and MPG (Read 1519 times) previous topic - next topic

VMSpc and MPG

July 22, 2010, 12:44:11 pm

For my use, the VMSpc has taught me the real connection between my right foot and horsepower vs fuel burn=MPG.
With the instantaneous mpg readout, with the 10 minute average mpg and then the trip mpg, all displayed at the same time.
Will show the ill ways of my driving habits. Have driven this 01 320 35' for 25K miles, and while not towing can get over 8.5 and run the 70+ish speeds. Have gotten it up to 10 mpg, but that is truly NO FUN travel.
For me, trying to figure the real mpg between miles on odometer and gal used is a hard thing due to the filling habits.

Also find the fuel burn numbers, both mpg and tank gal used is very close. Took on 107 gal when the VMSpc showed 105 used. Did run the Genset some, no on the Aqua Hot.

Bottom line, I am pleased with all the above.
Only thing better would be the ISX 650 and 15 mpg. (Dreaming)

Dave

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #1 – July 22, 2010, 03:17:55 pm

Quote

For me, trying to figure the real mpg between miles on odometer and gal used is a hard thing due to the filling habits.

I find tipping the coach allows me to get 10-12 gallons more in the tank & I can see in the filler tube it is filled to the edge every time.
That way I know i am truly starting at the same place every time and my numbers become more consistent and match the vmspc closer.
If I use the gen or Aquahot, well that has to be figured in.
The gen has an hour meter so that helps but the Aquahot does not.
That is an upcoming mod I will be doing.

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #2 – July 22, 2010, 09:35:52 pm

i found with no aqua hot use but genset use for a full day and night with 2 ac units running and the temps in the high 90s and went over 100 for a bit during the days drive that I had 13 gallons off vs silver leaf. I usually level rather than tip the coach so I can fill to the same point as well I have a 12.5kw powertech generator I averaged about 7.5 miles per gallon over 500 miles.

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #3 – July 23, 2010, 11:29:16 am

All good info. From my 19 year experience with my MCI 7 conversion using a 12 kw genset and running 24/7 while am away from home and having a separate 50 gal diesel fuel tank. The average genset fuel burn was 10 gal per 24 hour, summer or winter did not seem to make much difference.
Heated mostly with electric baseboard, when got real cold fired up the LPG furnace too. Also kept a 1200 watt heater in the water bay. Hot water by electric.

Just for comparison, I first had a 7.5 KW water cooled LPG genset, it averaged 1.1 gal per hour.

Yes I am glad to have a Foretravel and am enjoying the simpler life.

FWIW
Dave

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #4 – July 23, 2010, 04:43:39 pm

I like the comments you guys have posted here and while I don't tip my coach when I fill it, with my VMS440 (so maybe I'm off topic here, sorry) I have a nice little $595 add-on called an Accutrac. This is definitely a "toy" that will never pay for itself. However, it provides very accurate digital information. It has been quite useful when I've been parked for a while, and I want to know how much fuel is being consumed in a certain period of time. It records how much fuel has been added to the tank, the date, the mileage, the avg mpg, etc.etc. It will record and save all of these transactions till I clear the history.

Where this really has come into play for me is when I don't want to disconnect everything, (simulating driving down the road to my next stop) when there is a foot or more of snow on the ground, wintertime of course, just to get fuel. Instead, I have four - five gallon diesel fuel containers that I get filled and with a small (12v) fuel pump I transfer the fuel from these 5-gallon containers to the fuel tank.

If I had a storage shed on-site, I would have a more elaborate setup, but the park I'm in doesn't permit storage sheds of any kind. It's great to know "exactly" when I'm down 21 gallons rather than just "guessing."

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #5 – July 23, 2010, 07:24:55 pm

Quote

I have a nice little $595 add-on called an Accutrac.

John,
What is Accutrac? Software? Hardware?
Do you have a link for it?
Just curious what it is

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #6 – July 23, 2010, 09:36:16 pm

Quote from: Barry Beam – July 23, 2010, 07:24:55 pm

John,
What is Accutrac? Software? Hardware?
Do you have a link for it?
Just curious what it is

Accutrac is a Sensor unit that goes in place of your existing analog sensor. I'm attaching a link to the manufacturers website (below) that should give you a better explanation. However, I originally purchased it from Silverleaf in Albany OR since it is an add-on to their system. When I purchased my FT from MOT, they had quite a time with it. I sure was thankful that they agreed to remove the unit from my SOB and install it in the FT as part of the sale. REASON? Cause no one knew at the time that they would have drain my 175 gallon fuel tank down far enough so they could pull the tank out far enough to get at the original analog sensor on the top of the tank in the middle. Not all tanks are built like mine, but if it is---be prepared! Here's the link: http://www.ssitechnologies.com/acutrac.html

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #7 – July 23, 2010, 09:51:43 pm

I guess I should have been a little more precise and given you this page: http://www.ssitechnologies.com/Smart_485_Level_Transducers.html

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #8 – July 24, 2010, 06:14:16 pm

John,
Thanks for the response, now I need to ask HOW is this new sender tied into the VMSpc/Silverleaf system for the fuel readout. Or is it strictly for the dash analog gauge.
The reason I am curious is all the info from the VMSpc is a derived calculation, not actual measuring fuel in the tank.
I am all ears.
Thanks
Dave

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #9 – July 24, 2010, 09:11:58 pm

Dave,

You will notice the reason for replacing the "analog" sensor with this "Accutrac digital" is so the sensor device works like the sonar on a submarine. When the new Accutrac is installed, you should have three wires going to the old sensor and just connect these wires to the Accutrac, which must be "mounted" in the exact same place as where the analog device was located. Silverleaf then needs to know the dimensions of your fuel tank and it's capacity. This information is then dialed into the system. Fine tuning takes a little while unless you are fortunate enough to "calibrate" both an Empty tank and a Full tank virtually at the same time. Otherwise it is quite possible to have a reading of 105% when you fill the tank, till you have consumed about 10-15 gallons with a 175 gallon tank.

The really nice thing is that you never have to "tip the coach" to get accurate fuel consumption & MPG (once you overcome that 105% full reading). The "derived calculation" that you mentioned still exists in part. When I fill my tank, and fuel has been used either with the Aqua-Hot or Genset, the amount of fuel recorded at the pump can be as much as 2% plus/minus that of what is recorded by the Accutrac for historical purposes. I'm trying to get the guys at Silverleaf to write software that will allow me to dial in the difference and do a recalculation. From what I've been told, that will be a really difficult problem meaning it might not be cost effective. We'll see--I hope to see them in September.

BTW, I have also completely eliminated the Javelina system, thus my LPG, Black, Grey & Fresh Water tanks are all monitored by Silverleaf. Best decision I ever made!

John Christman 02 U320 40' WTFE Bothell, WA (Lake Pleasant RV Park)

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #10 – July 25, 2010, 08:47:03 am

John, I love this subject, however I do not see how to display this info on the VMSpc. No choice in New Gauge display choices where one could add anything other than what is preprogrammed choices.
SO, How can I get the Javaline info to display, ie; water level, lpg level and waste tanks level ?
That is where I am having trouble following this simple move.
Have to admit, does sound super grand.
Having good and correct fuel level info would be a biggie. Present fuel level info is sadly lacking, can never show a full tank, when 107 gal down, shows 5/16 remaining. Tank is 194 gal per spec sheet.
Without the VMSpc. it is a crap shoot on fuel remaining. Just learn from exerience.
Thanks for info.
Dave

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #11 – July 25, 2010, 10:17:13 am

Quote

I do not see how to display this info on the VMSpc. No choice in New Gauge display choices where one could add anything other than what is preprogrammed choices.
SO, How can I get the Javaline info to display, ie; water level, lpg level and waste tanks level ?
That is where I am having trouble following this simple move.

Dave,
John has the "Siverleaf GLASS DASH" instead of analog gauges (about $11-$12K)
I believe all those things are monitored on that instead of a Javalina.

Quote

Present fuel level info is sadly lacking, can never show a full tank, when 107 gal down, shows 5/16 remaining

Are you saying that your dash gauge is what is not showing the correct fuel level.
Did you read the message
http://foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10197.msg47044#msg47044
that might help.

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #12 – July 25, 2010, 10:20:22 am

Our stock fuel gauge is unreliable, too. We use VMS mpg and VMS miles to tell us fuel remaining.
best, paul

Quote

_____ Present fuel level info is sadly lacking, can never show a full tank, when 107 gal down, shows 5/16 remaining

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #13 – July 25, 2010, 10:32:55 am

Hi Barry,
Yes , am aware of the adjustment available.
I am too lazy to go through that procedure if the info can be displayed via new sensor and VMSpc.
Getting the pix, as I do not have the Glass Dash (yet), but could be on the horizon.
I am just the village idiot who is trying to get the whole pix in place of tidbits.
The tidbits are coming in... 1 X 1 .
Many thanks
Dave

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #14 – July 25, 2010, 11:17:20 am

We saw John's glass dash. Pretty amazing! But not in our future. We have better ways to spend $10K
best, paul

Quote

Getting the pix, as I do not have the Glass Dash (yet), but could be on the horizon.

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #15 – July 25, 2010, 04:18:23 pm

Actually, one does not need a Glass Dash (currently $9,995 including at least one day install) in order to replace their Javelina sensors for use with the Silverleaf products.

For quite some time I had the VMS-400 (upgraded to 440--with several software upgrades). It is because I "visited" Silverleaf on a regular basis that I became their unofficial field tester of many of their products & software developments (often little personal requests) that I eventually was offered my much coveted & soon acquired Glass Dash. I now have both of these units installed. Since I have so many add-ons, it was determined that it be best that I keep both installed. However, the VMS-440 has always had the Accutrac, Tank Sensors readout, Weather Station, Pressure Pro (up to 24 tires) Tire Pressure & Temperature monitoring on screen, Auto Genset system (very elaborate incl. temperature control inside coach for pet comfort), complete Inverter control from the VMS-440, Digital Voltage monitoring of both house & chassis batteries on the same screen, many more options that were tested and later removed for various reasons.

Dave, there are just SOME features that Silverleaf probably never will offer VMSpc users and for good reason. That program sells for under $400. Even today the VMS-440 new goes for $3,995. A glass dash VMS-660 new goes for $9,995. Need I say more?

Many of the add-on extras are in addition to the cost of these units, but at least that is what makes these units so valuable to have. I know how inaccurate (useless) the analog gauges were in my Foretravel, that I would be just as well off had they never been working at all.

One add-on that is on my wish list, but at the current price I will never own is the "Weigh-in-Motion" unit. If any of you (or know others) would care to make a monetary contribution and enough $$$$ is raised, I will be happy to get it installed and give it a rock solid testing when I get back to traveling next year. Weigh-in-Motion gives the driver the ability to weigh your vehicle(s) anytime, anywhere either by axel or by wheel while traveling at highway speeds or stationery. (Cost Hint: $2,500) $:-\$

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #16 – July 25, 2010, 04:38:08 pm

John, I can not say enough, how much I appreciate your info, I am very interested in a lot of the info one can have displayed. Not concerned about inside temp, weight and a few other items you listed, but in general I am very interested in the Glass Dash as used in the new Foretravel units.
Clearly it is a learning experience and I need to get further into the entire concept.
Been using the VMXpc for 2+ years and love it, just would like more info in general.

One very large concern is having a clean reliable installation, not one that was hacked/chopped into the dash, causing massive issues with unreliable pain in the butt experience.

Otherwise, I feel the addition is reasonable for a nice coach I plan on keeping.
Again, Thanks
Dave

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #17 – July 25, 2010, 09:10:35 pm

Quote from: John Christman – July 25, 2010, 04:18:23 pm

I know how inaccurate (useless) the analog gauges were in my Foretravel, that I would be just as well off had they never been working at all.

I could not agree more with that statement. To look at most of the analog gauges on our coach requires that I take my eyes off the road for way too long. We are so glad their is a low-cost alternative called VMSpc.

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #18 – July 25, 2010, 10:38:02 pm

Quote from: Dave M – July 25, 2010, 04:38:08 pm

One very large concern is having a clean reliable installation, not one that was hacked/chopped into the dash, causing massive issues with unreliable pain in the butt experience.

Otherwise, I feel the addition is reasonable for a nice coach I plan on keeping.

Dave,

Perhaps the album I've just created http://foreforums.com/index.php?action=media;sa=album;in=178 will help you even more. I've included less than 1/3 of all the screens I have available on my Glass Dash. While the VMSpc has many of the functions that Silverleaf has standard with their systems, the good thing is that a lot more versatility and usability can be found with these more "pricey" toys.

When you decide that you just can't do without a Glass Dash--I can't stress enough--this is NOT a DIY project. Dale Kemper at Silverleaf is by far the best in the business and I assure you he is NOT A HACKER. Even though Silverleaf is located here on the West Coast (Albany OR) about 90 miles south of Portland, either Dale (General Mgr) or Martin (owner) attend most all of the bigger FMCA, Affinity Group & Escapee Rallies/Conventions all over the country. This is especially important as time passes (depending on what additional add-ons you get) you may find need for software updates and in addition to sales & installation, both these guys have their computers with them with the latest software updates.

You will find that your entire dash panel has to be replaced. You can do what you want with your existing one with all those useless gauges. A new faceplate needs to be ordered directly from Foretravel at a cost of around $100-150 depending on style & year of coach. Takes about 3-4 weeks to get the new faceplate--so just bear this in mind. Also this item is in addition to the cost of the Glass Dash. Many of the gauges you see on my "first" screen can be custom located on the dash--but you must specify this when you place your order. You also have a choice of colors on your dash. If you ever do any driving at night, the colors are very stunning (yes there is a sensor that tells the screen to change, when darkness falls upon you).

Visible screen size of Glass Dash is 6.25" H X 8.25"W.

I hope this extra information & photos has given you what you are really looking for. I only mentioned the "add-ons" in my previous post because some people who have the VMSpc version can't understand why anyone would ever consider a Glass Dash or the 7inch color monitor or baby silverleaf VMS-240. Some of those add-ons will never make it on the VMSpc.

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #19 – July 26, 2010, 09:03:21 am

John,
Words escape me, how much I appreciate the info you have provided, not to mention all the time spent for my information, pictures etc...

I will contact Silverleaf and have a chit chat with the men you referred to.

And yes, I get the idea, there is no end to the possibilities one could have displayed just on the VMS-400 series display and of course that brings up another ?,

At this point, I will need to start a list of what is important info to be displayed, that alone will take a while as new things pop up after reviewing your display photos.

Can the VMS-400 be mounted IN the dash, maybe in place of the screen for rear view / tank info.

Can see the possibilities are endless, WOW!

More later
Thanks
Dave

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #20 – July 26, 2010, 09:52:23 am

For those who prefer to spend less, don't forget VMS 240 CL ("CL" stands for color) at $1995

Mine sits on TOP of my dash right in front of me. It's the only thing I need to look at look at while driving. I consider it a safety feature, not just a monitor. Because I don't have to shift my eyes away from the road to see it.
http://www.silverleafelectronics.com/
best, paul
'Thriving not Surviving' See our blog at LazyDazers.com

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #21 – July 26, 2010, 10:29:10 am

Howdy Paul, I was just took a look at the VMS 240 CL and looks like a great unit. I notice SilverLeaf offers a VMS 120 that offers a built in Pressure Pro. The Pressure Pro system in going to be my next upgrade, and I'm wondering what you (or others) think of this system?? The price is right at $499, not including sensors.
Thanks, Dave Abel

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #22 – July 26, 2010, 10:39:49 am

Quote

The Pressure Pro system in going to be my next upgrade, and I'm wondering what you (or others) think of this system??

I have been using Pressure Pro since 2004 & I am extremely happy with it.
Most people seem to be judging from previous posts if you search "pressure Pro"

http://www.advantagepressurepro.com/

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #23 – July 26, 2010, 10:40:24 am

From what I've been told the Pressure Pro option is fine.

I was simply satisfied with the stock Pressure Pro monitor I already had. ___

Re: VMSpc and MPG

Reply #24 – July 26, 2010, 11:05:44 am

Thanks for the replys. I'm drifting around on the SilverLeaf website and ran across this quote: "You may also need to update your VMS software to use PressurePro. Call us for details. For VMSpc users, version 2.4 is required, and is available for free download on this web site." http://www.silverleafelectronics.com/?q=node/301 I guess this leads me to think there is some way to combine VMSpc and PressurePro on my laptop. I'm looking for an intergrated solution to have both products in one package. I'm waiting for 9 am on westcoast to give them a call.( I'm in Joplin,MO) Any and all comments welcome, thanx, Dave Abel

Affiliate Notice