M-11 won't start today

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M-11 won't start today

August 11, 2010, 06:41:58 pm

Had a real wake-up call this morning. Went to start the engine and it started. Ran for about 30 seconds and sputtered and quit. Twice earlier this week the same thing happened, but waited a few minutes and it restarted and ran ok for 100 miles the first day and 220 mile the next. Up and down 10-17% grades ok so I thought maybe some air in the lines, from where I dont' know. But when it ran, it ran ok.
Today, after the first start and stop, it would not start with 3 tries of 30 seconds over an hour period.
Tank is 1/3 full, coach is level. I tried the Winn air bleed, and it bled air with some fuel, but, keeping the air valve open, just air for 4 resets of the pump.

Anyone seen anything like that before? Ya think the pick-up tube fell off?
Any help?

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #1 – August 11, 2010, 07:33:05 pm

Quote

Today, after the first start and stop, it would not start with 3 tries of 30 seconds over an hour period.
Tank is 1/3 full, coach is level. I tried the Winn air bleed, and it bled air with some fuel, but, keeping the air valve open, just air for 4 resets of the pump.

I would change the fuel filters.

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #2 – August 11, 2010, 07:47:28 pm

The issue can also be with the Winn Filter System. They leak after a while and your issue sounds like air. I would see if you have a leak on the winn racor if you can get it started. You can also use ether to help you get it running. The M 11 has no glow plugs. In fact my unit came with a bottle of ether plumbed in.

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #3 – August 11, 2010, 07:55:42 pm

Check the clear filter with the metal screen. The O rings sometimes go bad and suck air.

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #4 – August 11, 2010, 09:28:47 pm

I had exactly the same thing happen Monday morning after our first stop en route to Virginia from Southern California via Montana. It started, ran about 30 seconds, and then died. First time it has ever happened. I replaced both the filter and fuel/water separator. In addition, I had to replace the very thin clear plastic line from the bottom of the fuel/water separator to the primer system. It was so brittle it broke when I was servicing the separator. (A whole $1.72 for the line and two ferrules (sp?). I then used the primer system per my manual and it started right up.

We are now in Montana, a 1000 miles later, and it's running like a champ. I'm curious though, should I have just replaced the filter to see if that was the issue before replacing both?

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #5 – August 11, 2010, 09:38:36 pm

The same happened to me. Ran thirty seconds for a couple of times then would not start. Changed both filters then went to FT and had the obsolete winn filter replaced with a new type Racor. Has not failed again--about 2 years. Now I carry a set of fuel filters and can change them myself.

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #6 – August 11, 2010, 10:47:14 pm

Harvey,

Where in Montana? We are in Thompson Falls, MT

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #7 – August 11, 2010, 11:30:40 pm

So, Harvey & Jerry, do you think it was the filters, or the seals that you changed when you replaced the filters?
I'm here in the boonies with no spare filter (I changed the "other" filter...didn't know there was a #1). If it is the seals, I can "massage" them to work.
I'm is Gaspe, QC and only Santa Claus delivers here.

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #8 – August 11, 2010, 11:35:47 pm

Usually the small clear pre-filter sealing o-rings start to leak...

Quote

John Sichenze wrote:
The issue can also be with the Winn Filter System. They leak after a while and your issue sounds like air. I would see if you have a leak on the winn racor if you can get it started. You can also use ether to help you get it running. The M 11 has no glow plugs. In fact my unit came with a bottle of ether plumbed in.
2001 42' double slide U320 2007 24' Born Free
Yellow Jeep Wrangler

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #9 – August 12, 2010, 08:37:19 am

BTW, before I tear into something that is the dark zone( dancing with the devil), what is the fluid in the bag hanging down from the filter?

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #10 – August 12, 2010, 09:45:22 am

Quote

what is the fluid in the bag hanging down from the filter?

Should be water.

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #11 – August 12, 2010, 10:53:16 am

I had that happen in Ohio, it was the Winn filter sucking in air because a "o" ring had been crushed. I was very fortunate that I had a spare filter.

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #12 – August 12, 2010, 11:26:05 am

Doesn't everyone carry at least 2 of each type of engine fuel filter? Even if you are not mechanically inclined to replace them, most auto parts do not have them in stock, and you may be a long way from a large truck stop that might have them. Someone posted about 2 yrs ago that a tank of dirty fuel will result in changing filters a few times. Has anyone experienced a crack in the clear plastic bowl of the initial filter (Racor)? I have been thinking about getting a spare bowl, but haven't found anyone selling them, at a reasonable price.

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #13 – August 12, 2010, 03:57:38 pm

I know where the large filter is above the clear plastic bowl. Where is the other filter?

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #14 – August 12, 2010, 04:30:10 pm

Well, the Foretravel Forum Force (FFF) was with me and I conquered the dark side!

(maybe not dark, but definitely dusty, dirty and covered in road residue)
Thank to all of you who stepped up and guided me. It was the O-rings. I searched downtown and could not get the right size o-rings so I got smaller ones and put them under the fat ones and warp drive came alive!
I didn't carry the primary fuel filter as I don't remember seeing them in the manual. Nor the o-rings for the pre-primany filter. Live and learn. I have two spares of the rest (except the air filter which I traded my first born for...they are too expensive and take up too much space).
Sooooo, we are "on the road again", heading south from Gaspe Nat'l Park, Quebec back to civilization.
Again, thanks y'all!

George, one is on the passenger side on the engine about half way up and the primary & pre-primary is in the engine battery compartment above and behind the batteries with, as Barry says, the water bag hanging from it. Thanks Barry!!

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #15 – August 12, 2010, 08:09:20 pm

Hi Michael,
There is a member, yahoo page, that fixed the same "O" ring, almost the same size problem, with a coating of Vaseline petroleum jelly. It has been a year or more, and many miles, with no problems.

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #16 – August 12, 2010, 08:26:36 pm

That was what plan "B" was! It didn't work

Plan "C" was the double o-ring.
Plan "D" is to get a box of o-rings when I get to civilization and if it starts leaking again, I'll go dance with that dragon when it happens.

Learning something new every day!

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #17 – August 12, 2010, 09:13:55 pm

I have silicone and teflon grease to use on O-rings. The teflon grease was required for my swimming pool filter and I got it a a pool supply place. I recently saw silicone grease at Pep Boys and I suspect that other auto parts stores carry it also. I would think that Vasoline would eventually be washed out by the diesel fuel. I use silicone (fuel/oil) or teflon (water) on all my O-ring installations as it seems to help keep the O-ring from being pushed out of place during installation.

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #18 – August 20, 2010, 09:58:44 am

I had the same issue again a few days ago, starting and then dying after a few seconds.

Thanks to this Forum I had another option to consider. That is the Winn Filter System (the clear filter with the metal screen). Thus I just purged the air using the Winn system and it started right up. Wew!!!

As questioned by purplehazembdb, and suggested by John Sichenze and others, I'm thinking that it probably wasn't the filters after all.

That was several days ago. I've been waiting for a better opportunity to tackle the issue, if it lets me. Hopefully, early next week.

Again, I can't imagine getting along without this forum and all the great folks that contribute to it. If I hadn't read the responses I would have changed the filters again without any knowledge of the Winn system issue.

Thanks again to all you folks.

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #19 – August 20, 2010, 12:41:32 pm

When you take the top off the Winn/Racor plastic cylinder, does fuel run from the supply? This was a messy deal on my SOB. I am about to change the filters in a week for the first time.

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #20 – August 20, 2010, 01:22:48 pm

When I took mine apart, there was no fuel in the filter. It seems that with no seal, the fuel back-flowed into the tank, and the pumps sucked what was left from the filter. If the system is working, there is fuel in the filter and it would seem that it would spill out when you broke the seal.
Sloppy? Maybe.

But, it is my understanding that there is going to be a new men's cologne being marketed to REAL men called "Diesel"! You can be the first one on your block to wear it! Be a trendsetter!

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #21 – August 21, 2010, 06:49:02 am

I recently replaced the Winn filter system with a Parker/Racor 790R30, which is what James T. recommended. $258 + $18 shipping. It appears to be a much better system and none of that cylinder with o-rings crap. No further problems with air in the diesel system since.

Duane Budd
dcbudd@embarqmail.com
Johnson City, TN
'97 U320TB / Cobalt Toad

700 series Fuel Filter/Water Separators

Reply #22 – August 21, 2010, 08:55:16 am

Here is some information from Parker Hannifin regarding the 700 series Fuel Filter/Water Separators with Integrated Priming Pump
thanks jc

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #23 – August 22, 2010, 04:45:52 am

Quote from: Duane Budd – August 21, 2010, 06:49:02 am

I recently replaced the Winn filter system with a Parker/Racor 790R30, which is what James T. recommended. $258 + $18 shipping. It appears to be a much better system and none of that cylinder with o-rings crap. No further problems with air in the diesel system since.

Duane Budd

dcbudd@embarqmail.com
Johnson City, TN
'97 U320TB / Cobalt Toad

Duane: where did you buy at that price? Thanks

Re: M-11 won't start today

Reply #24 – August 22, 2010, 06:05:16 am

I bought my system at diesel-plus.com. Used their Orlando branch and talked with Glenn. 800-733-6101. Nice people to do busines with.

Duane Budd
dcbudd@embarqmail.com
Johnson City, TN
'97 U320TB / Cobalt Toad

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