Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Topic: Ether bottle: When should it be used? (Read 1739 times) previous topic - next topic

Ether bottle: When should it be used?

August 11, 2010, 11:01:46 pm

In his response to another topic here John Sichenze said:

"The M 11 has no glow plugs. In fact my unit came with a bottle of ether plumbed in."

We have one, too. Our salesmen told us to never use it without first talking to Derek Diverdi. When would I use it?

Note to John: Thank you for the good topic idea.

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #1 – August 11, 2010, 11:46:03 pm

When it is cold as hell out...

Quote

George Stoltz wrote:
In his response to another topic here John Sichenze said:

"The M 11 has no glow plugs. In fact my unit came with a bottle of ether plumbed in."

We have one, too. Our salesmen told us to never use it without first talking to Derek Diverdi. When would I use it?

Note to John: Thank you for the good topic idea.

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #2 – August 12, 2010, 12:17:34 am

Inasmuch as we do our very best to avoid really cold weather, I doubt if we will ever need it.

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #3 – August 12, 2010, 06:16:44 am

Cold weather is one reason or when your engine position sensor is on the fritz and the engine will not start and there is a nor easter blowing in and the campground will be under water.

I have started up engines in very very cold weather. I do not make a habit of using it but if it is 20 below and you are in Iowa you will need it even if you have aquahot and preheat going.....

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #4 – August 12, 2010, 09:47:25 am

Just a word of caution here:

I am not familiar with the M11, but most newer engines (both Caterpillar and Cummins) have intake manifold heaters that aid in starting. Hit that red hot electric grid with ether and you have an EXPLOSION. So, before considering ether, consult your engine manufacturer to make sure your engine does not have an intake manifold heater.

Brett Wolfe

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #5 – August 12, 2010, 09:49:28 am

Quote from: wolfe10 – August 12, 2010, 09:47:25 am

Just a word of caution here:

I am not familiar with the M11, but most newer engines (both Caterpillar and Cummins) have intake manifold heaters that aid in starting. Hit that red hot electric grid with ether and you have an EXPLOSION. So, before considering ether, consult your engine manufacturer to make sure your engine does not have an intake manifold heater.

Brett Wolfe

Brett, you are right but my ISM does mot have one and it is an 2001 but my 99 ISC had one. Go figure.

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #6 – August 12, 2010, 09:57:53 am

Our 1997 U295 with C8.3 engine sports a big sticker that warns against using ether because of the flame heater in the intake manifold.

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #7 – August 12, 2010, 10:32:25 am

J. D.,

What's a flame heater? I have the same Cummins C8.3 engine. I assume it is fueled by diesel? How does it ignite the fuel, with an electric charge?

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #8 – August 12, 2010, 12:22:21 pm

I don't what is a "flame heater." I just repeated the warning on a label on a cross member behind the engine. I have found no controls for engine preheat other than the electric block heater.

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #9 – August 12, 2010, 03:40:33 pm

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – August 12, 2010, 12:22:21 pm

I don't what is a "flame heater." I just repeated the warning on a label on a cross member behind the engine. I have found no controls for engine preheat other than the electric block heater.

Likely an intake manifold heater, hence the warning-- red hot electrical wire plus ether= EXPLOSION.

Brett Wolfe

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #10 – August 12, 2010, 06:48:22 pm

"have found no controls for engine preheat other than the electric block heater. J D Stevens"

Revised. . .
Our Cummins 8.3C-RV diesel engine has a pre-heat cycle to help heat the cylinder to a point that the diesel fuel burns when injected into a cranking engine. While the 'wait to start' dash light is lit, the 12 volt electric grid heater in our intake manifold is heating the air before engine is started. Once the engine is running, on-going combustion keeps the cylinder hot enough to burn fuel.
It is probable that the pre-heat option was ordered with the engine from Foretravel. Some other diesels may also have some sort of pre-heat. I was incorrect to think that all diesel engines need a pre-heater.

After turning on the ignition key, we wait for the light to go off. The colder it is, the takes longer for the light to go out. When it is cold outside, we cycle the ignition key, by turning off the key when the light goes out and then turning the key back on for a another 'wait to start' heater cycle. Repeat as necessary.

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #11 – August 12, 2010, 07:06:47 pm

George,

The M-11 doesn't have any intake manifold heaters, hence the installation of the supplemental ether system. Given that, everyone's cautions about its use still apply.

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #12 – August 12, 2010, 07:21:39 pm

Hi George,
Our 1997, M 11 powered, has the ether bottle, factory installed. When I purchased our coach, the seller said to never use it. Our first trip to the factory yielded the same advise from James T. Just never use it. I have never thought much about it until reading this.

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #13 – August 12, 2010, 09:28:07 pm

My '91 GV with a Cat 3208 also has it. The Cat manual says to only use ether if it is below 30 degrees outside. If is is going to be that cold I turn on the block heater as it warms the engine oil and makes it much easier to start. One thing that I notice is that without a manifold preheat the engine puts out white smoke until everything gets warm when it is cold outside.

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #14 – August 13, 2010, 01:40:47 pm

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – August 12, 2010, 06:48:22 pm

"have found no controls for engine preheat other than the electric block heater. J D Stevens"

All diesel engines have a pre-heat cycle to help heat the cylinder to a point that the diesel fuel burns when injected into a cranking engine. While the 'wait to start' dash light is lit, the 12 volt electric grid heater in our intake manifold is heating the air before engine is started.

Not on any of the over the road equipment that I ever drove. That included Cummins 250, 290, formula 290, 330/370, 335, 350 and the 400. And on the Detroit 238, 318, 350 along with the 6V92 and the silver 6V92. All any of those had was the block heater and a couple had the ether canister. Never had any steady Cat experience, so I don't know about them, but trust Brett Wolf on that topic. And all my Cummins B5.9 has is the block heater and the ether canister. But my VW Jetta TDI does have glow plugs.

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #15 – August 13, 2010, 09:53:33 pm

It really does depend on how cold. I have been in areas where it is so cold you never shut your unit or car off or where the night temps are below zero. Sure, we would all like to be retired and go south but sometimes I go north inthe motorhome or even west and get some might cold weather. the coach is fine in it and we are all toasty warm but it is a bear to start when it is that cold.

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #16 – August 14, 2010, 04:11:49 pm

Why not install a 1500 W Kim Hot Start block heater?
http://www.hotstart.com/in-block-heaters/
Turn it on 20- 30 min. prior to starting, everything will warm up and cold weather starting will be easy.

Cheers
Ted
SOB Boat

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #17 – August 14, 2010, 06:56:23 pm

Ted,

I think that all diesel engined Foretravels already have block heaters. The only thing is that you have to be hooked to shore power or run the generator to make use of them.

John Cooper

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Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #18 – August 14, 2010, 07:03:43 pm

Quote

I think that all diesel engined Foretravels already have block heaters. The only thing is that you have to be hooked to shore power or run the generator to make use of them.

I think you are right John.
Looking at the specs going back to at least 1985 they all had Block heaters.

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #19 – August 14, 2010, 08:02:51 pm

I should of known..

with everything else being "standard" another reason I want one!

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #20 – August 15, 2010, 01:00:18 pm

When I got my 95 U280 I found a sticker that SAID, don't use ether,flame heater in use, fire may result or something to that effect. I have looked and shops have looked and find no evidence of any FLAME heater, I know I have a block heater but I was always curious about this sticker.

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #21 – August 15, 2010, 10:19:39 pm

Doesn't the Aquahot or Hydrohot also heat the engine coolant? Thus "Flame Heater In Use"?

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #22 – August 16, 2010, 07:12:04 am

Pat, The implication was that the flame was in the intake system... None there that I can find.
I don't have aqauhot.

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #23 – August 16, 2010, 08:41:56 am

With an 12 VDC resistance heater in the intake manifold (which most modern diesels have), hitting those red hot wires with ether will cause that flame

Brett

Re: Ether bottle: When should it be used?

Reply #24 – August 16, 2010, 09:59:11 am

Brett,
Are you saying that my ISM 450 in my 2000 U320 has the 12 vdc heater? If so, is it something that is on all the time or just for a short time when I turn on my key to start? I have no dash indicator telling me this. How long should I wait after turning on my key before cranking the engine?
Thanks!
Paul

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