Water system pressure tank

Topic: Water system pressure tank (Read 1483 times) previous topic - next topic

Water system pressure tank

August 13, 2010, 01:00:56 pm

I've determined that mine is bad, water comes out at the air valve. What is the best fix, or is it even worth bothering with?

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #1 – August 13, 2010, 01:44:34 pm

Quote

I've determined that mine is bad, water comes out at the air valve. What is the best fix, or is it even worth bothering with?

Take a look at this previous message thread. It might help answer your question.
http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=3483.msg12823#msg12823

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #2 – August 13, 2010, 02:26:14 pm

Thanks Barry, I'll look into the Shurflow 5.7 pump a bit more. Reviews on Amazon indicate some problems with them, 3 of 5 reviewers gave them a 1, and 2 gave it a 4, but based on only 5 reviews I'll check further.

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #3 – August 13, 2010, 06:55:24 pm

Since your pressure tank has been leaking, it has not been assisting your pump, like originally designed.
The big blue accumulator air tank only helps reduce low flow pump pulsing, and you probably have gotten used to any pulsing so why change your current water pump now?

Some have found it difficult to remove original pumps.
And found it easier to add a 2nd water pump by plumbiing it from the fresh water drain ball valve, to the accumulator hose.
A 2-way switch can be used to use one pump or the other.

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #4 – August 13, 2010, 09:39:49 pm

Yeah, it's not really a problem. Just came up on the to do list. I'll probably move it on down the list farther. I wanted to get the outside hand wash set up fixed so it made some sense to do them both. My pump is readily assessable, so won't discard the idea of replacing it.

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #5 – August 14, 2010, 12:07:08 am

I am on my third shurflow variable pump under warranty. Hopefuly this most recent will be the last. I did install a second pump and if one fails. I just switch the hot wire [spade connector] and turn one valve off and the other on to switch pumps. I have room since removing the accumulator tank.

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #6 – August 14, 2010, 12:18:41 am

Quote

I am on my third shurflow variable pump under warranty. Hopefully this most recent will be the last.

I am also on my 3rd one under warranty also.
I had no trouble exchanging them over the counter at any camping world.

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #7 – August 14, 2010, 01:11:23 am

I have no issues with a "regular" water pump and the accumulator. Check it for proper PSI annually of if I hear the pump cycling more often than normal.

I am not worried about water stored in the pump. Lots of water moves in and out against that bladder in the tank. If no accumulator, when you close a faucet, the pump cuts off RIGHT THEN. With an accumulator, it will run for an additional 15 or so seconds to fill the accumulator. When you open a faucet, even before the pump comes on, the water in the accumulator is forced out by the stored air pressure.

Proper accumulator PSI is pump CUT-IN PSI minus 2 PSI. So, for a Shruflo 2.8 pump with 25 PSI cut-in, turn off the pump (shore water off). Open a faucet to bleed off all water pressure. Use a tire gauge to verify 23 PSI.

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #8 – August 15, 2010, 09:35:34 pm

I went ahead and pulled the bad accumulator out today. The water in it was pretty ugly, rusty looking. I got to thinking.....If it's not functioning, then its not pushing water out to be replaced by fresh water. The implications of that - sanitizing the system isn't getting into the accumulator, nor is the anti-freeze if you're winterizing. Does that make sense?

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #9 – August 15, 2010, 10:26:21 pm

The water in the tank might be stagnant only if it were full of water. If it had any air at all, the air would compress, and that amount of water would be pumped in and out every pump cycle.
If it were full, there would be no compression and no flow.
Just having water pass over the mouth of the tube going up into the accumulator would also move some water.
Now, if the throat of the tank is rusted closed and the tank is full of water (no air), then you are growing things.

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #10 – August 16, 2010, 01:14:29 am

Accumulators even when working can possibly be a source of bacteria. When accumulator is not working it never gets sanitized by chlorine.

Re: Water tank issue -- revisited

Reply #11 – September 06, 2010, 12:24:42 pm

U320 - 2000 vintage

Water pump cycles with about 1 second interval of rest.

I can not get a pressure reading on tank. I fill it with a PowerTank, but do not want to rupture the bladder by putting in too much air.

I do not get a reading with faucet open or faucet closed.

If I need a new tank here are my questions:

1) Should I forget the tank and just stick with the pump? How difficult is this to reconfigure?

2) If I should replace the tank, I'd like to do it myself, but I have to order and await delivery. So, are we doing any harm to the pump by it having to run more often? With the blue reserve tank, we could often wash our hands without the pump turning on.

Re: Water tank issue -- revisited

Reply #12 – September 06, 2010, 12:29:28 pm

You will not harm the pump to run without the accumulator.

But, the accumulator does serve the function you mention-- both smooths out pump pulses and "stores" water so the pump doesn't cycle on even if all you need is 2 oz of water.

When ours went out, I replaced it.

Brett Wolfe

Re: Water tank issue -- revisited

Reply #13 – September 06, 2010, 12:36:33 pm

Is here any way I can determine that it is the tank that has failed, before I bite the bullet?

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #14 – September 06, 2010, 12:49:22 pm

George,
Depress the tire valve on the tank and see what comes out.

1. Water: bad news....bad tank

2. Nothing: Need to try and pressurize it to see if it works. You need a tire pressure gauge & service it.

Service and check occasionally, or you'll know its leaking air (valve (it is a regular tire valve) or bladder) if the pump cycles more & more as it does now. Hopefully you will be lucky.

2. Air: Need a tire pressure gauge. You might not have enough air in the bladder. Service and check occasionally, or you'll know its leaking air (valve (it is a regular tire valve) or bladder) if the pump cycles more & more as it does now. Hopefully you will be lucky.

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #15 – September 06, 2010, 12:55:09 pm

Good answer from Mike.

And proper PSI is pump cut-in pressure less 2 PSI. So for a Shruflo 2.8 pump with cut-in PSI of 25, correct tank pressure with pump off and a faucet open to bleed off PSI is 23 PSI.

Brett Wolfe

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #16 – September 06, 2010, 01:05:12 pm

I can not get air into or out of the tank. When I press in on the valve no air escapes. I try to put air in and then depress the valve and no air comes out. I removed the valve from the stem and no air or water came out. Could it be the little valve inside the stem?

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #17 – September 06, 2010, 02:06:47 pm

If you removed the valve, there is no valve in there.

There should be a cap on the valve stem. Inside the stem is the valve. You should have used a valve removal tool (some caps have the slotted tool on the cap) to remove the valve.
After that, there is just a hole which should let air in or out.
Try putting air into the tank without the valve in. It should woosh (my term) in and then when you remove the air chuck, air should rush out.
Try that.

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #18 – September 06, 2010, 02:15:59 pm

O.K. I was not clear enough and used some wrong terms I am sure.

The valve stem is technically called a dil valve. I learned this from the Pressure Pro folks months ago. the dill valve was in place when I did all of my fooling around.

With the dill valve in place I can't get air into or out of the tank. Tomorrow when Les Schwab opens at 8:00 a.m. I will buy a replacement dil valve in case that is the problem. I hope it is only that.

In trying to get air into or out of the tank, I removed the dil valve. There was no air in the tank. No whoosh sound as I loosened it and took it out.

After putting the valve back in I tried to air it up. No luck. It does not want to take or hold air -- and that makes me think it is this little 89 cent valve.

I'll let you all know if that fixes things.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #19 – September 06, 2010, 03:45:05 pm

Hi George,
Google schraeder valve. I think this is what is in the pressure tank for adding, releasing air.

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #20 – September 06, 2010, 05:53:46 pm

George, my guess is that the bladder has ruptured and rust has plugged the hole, preventing air from going into the tank or coming out. To check, remove the dil/schraeder valve and stick an appropriately sized dowel or some other blunt instrument into the hole and see if the hole is open. If not, wiggle the dowel, pull it out and see if there is rust on the end. If so, your bladder is ruptured. Replace the tank.

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #21 – September 06, 2010, 06:14:47 pm

Kent,

It does not look good. I followed your suggestion. I can not get the blunt end of a bamboo skewer in beyond one inch. No rust. No water.
Just an impenetrable blockage.

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #22 – September 06, 2010, 08:37:41 pm

Is the system pressurized when you push the bamboo skewer in?
If it is, then you are hitting the bladder that is pressurized up against the top of the tank.
Try putting air in without a valve in it, and with no water pressure (open the sink faucets), and pump off.
See if air goes in then. Then measure, or put the pump on and see if air comes out.

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #23 – September 06, 2010, 09:03:38 pm

Mike,

I am not sure what is going on here. I took out the valve, turned on the pump and opened the water faucet in the utility bay. No water pressure reading.

Then I put the air hose on the valve stem and opened the cold water drain valve as I put air into the tank, the water pressure increased noticeable in coming out of the cold water drain. No water squirted out. And I could put the wood skewer into the tank and got a pressure reading of only 1.5 psi.

Waited a minute or two and the bladder had again moved to the point that I could not get the skewer into the tank, so there is enough pressure to move the bladder up against the valve stem.

What is your interpretation of this?

I appreciate your help.

Re: Water system pressure tank

Reply #24 – September 06, 2010, 09:30:18 pm

It seems that the tank will take air without the valve.

That leads me to believe that the valve is bad.

The valve should be just like a tire valve. Tomorrow, take the valve to an auto parts place and see if they can duplicate it. Some are longer than others. You might take a look at the one you have. If you look closely, you will see a tiny spring. If you depress the tiny pin on the end, it should depress the spring and make the part with the rubber around it move. If it doesn't, you won't get air in or out. It might be corroded or just plain stuck. (If you are in the woods, you might be able to steal on from youe spare tire or tube you go down the river on)

It seems that the bladder does not leak.

Otherwise you would have water coming out of the valve.

Happy, happy, happy!

I think that when you get the valve, get an air gauge also, put the new valve in, put air in the tank to the specs quoting Barry's info "pre-charge set at the SAME pressure as the pump's pressure switch "turn on" setting. Typically, a 45 psi [3 bar] pump will turn on around 30 psi [2.07 bar]. Therefore, the pre-charge should also be 30 psi [2.07 bar]. The pre-charge MUST be set in a "static" condition (pump off and at least one water fixture opened). "
http://beamalarm.com/Documents/accumulator_tank%20_model_182_installation.html

If you can't get a new valve, turn off the pump, open faucets, put air into tank until water stops coming out of faucets, put old stem back in, put cap on, close faucets, put pump on. The bladder should be half functional with a little air in it. You should notice it in the pump on/off timing.

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