Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Topic: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp (Read 1580 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #25 – January 06, 2016, 10:55:17 am

i HAVE THE BANKS STINGER ON MY 350 CUMMINS AND WOULD SUGGEST THAT IN ACTUALLITY IT REDUCES TEMPS ETC WHILE GIVING THE EXTRA BOOST ETC. WELL WORTH THE COST AS i WOULD NOT BE WITHOUT IT, AND HAVING IT NOT WORK DUE TO A BROKEN 12V POWER FEED THIS TRIP IT WAS MISERABLE DRIVING BEFORE i FOUND THE BREAK AND FIXED IT.
JohnH

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #26 – January 07, 2016, 02:35:44 pm

John,

Did you install the stinger recently? My understanding was that Banks wasn't installing Stingers on ISC engines, but only on mechanical 8.3s. I'd love to have one put on ours.

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #27 – January 07, 2016, 03:26:43 pm

[quote author=Dave Katsuki link=msg=221824 date=1452195344 My understanding was that Banks wasn't installing Stingers on ISC engines, but only on mechanical 8.3s. I'd love to have one put on ours.[/quote]

The guy that would be able to tell you is an old friend, he knows Banks! Ask for Eric, tell him I said hello.
800.488.3697 Eric's RV Performance Intro page

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #28 – January 08, 2016, 01:49:26 am

Thanks Mike,

I'll give him a call.

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #29 – January 08, 2016, 10:04:45 am

Dave, it was put on by P Owner and yes they do not install on this engine now. Reason being the TUNER (which controls the Boost I believe) is not being made anymore so they cannot use it in the Automind computer control that this one needs. I was having a Boost guage problem a while back and spoke to the Tech Dept about it and they gave me some elec' testing to do to see if it was guage or Tuner fault. It turns out there was a break itn the tiny wire from computer to gauge and I found it (in 35ft of length of wire) and repaired it. No mean feat as that wire is only 3 fine strands!! I had bought new guages from them before finding the real problem!
I was told if it was the Tuner then the whole thing was no good as they could not get them anywhere- so no Stinger.
Other engines are ok it seems.
I really do like it and the engine performance with it is amazing, I have driven the coach twice when it was not working ( blown fuse on power input) and it was like dragging another coach behind me.
JohnH

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #30 – January 11, 2016, 01:47:23 am

Sounde like I'll have to stick with what I've got for a while, although I would like to get some more boost, since EGT is still higher than normal on long uphill pulls. Much improved with the new turbo, but running at max torque I can get over 1000degF (after turbo ) if I'm not careful, which sounds to me like not enough air.

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #31 – January 11, 2016, 08:28:51 am

The banks is obsolete but there are other ways to go about boosting hp. Since you have an electronic engine, what about just running a tuner like this Motorhome R.V. Cummins Engines Fuel Economy Power products ? I have no experience with this particular one only see that it looks like it'll work with your engine.

I've found this to be a very good list of points for optimizing the 8.3 Cummins. While this is slanted towards the mechanical engine, lots of the points discussed apply to the electronic engine as well. Next to last post on page 8.3L cummins power suggestions - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #32 – January 11, 2016, 10:32:25 am

Chuck, great find and thanks for this info. I will keep the link just in case!!!
Sounds like it would work and also looks like they will answer any questions before buying.
JohnH

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #33 – January 11, 2016, 10:49:17 am

Here are a bunch of options for remapping/chipping your engine. Any electronic engine can be easily modified. Adding fuel is the easiest way with exhaust mods and a larger turbo icing on the cake. Some plug into the diagnostic port, others piggy back into the ECU connectors. You have to make sure you have enough radiator to handle the increased heat in the summer months.

Many times these are advertised as "marine" units as they may not be EPA or CARB (California) legal.

Almost any electronic engines from Cummins, CATs and all of our DDEC 6V-92TA Detroits can be fitted. Looks like some have a nice digital readout to boot.

Amazon.com: Edge 85400 CTS2 Diesel Evolution Programmer: Automotive

POWERBOX

TuningBox Chip tuning :: Diesel performance tuning :: ECU remapping chiptuning

Cummins Programmer: Performance Chips | eBay

Chip Tuning Software | eBay

Pierce

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #34 – January 11, 2016, 04:53:23 pm

Quote from: Dave M – August 22, 2010, 01:09:52 pm

Lets take a look at this possibility,,,
Start with 230 hp and go to 300 hp

I should take my 450 hp to about 600 hp

Why don't we all run out and take out ISM engines to 600 hp?
I love it when reasoning is overcome by desire.
As usual FWIW
Dave

If you took your ISM up to 600HP you would still be 150HP less than a factory calibration of that engine...

In marine trim the 11L engines can be had up to 750HP, the 8.3L up to 600HP, the 5.9L engines up to 480HP. What do all of these engines have in common? Virtually unlimited cooling.

With proper gauges and a carefully calibrated nut behind the wheel there would be no issues with a 600HP M11/ISM in a motorhome application. You would need to pay attention to EGT's and be willing to back off on a long pull in hot weather. But having the horsepower available for a quick pass when desired would not shorten the life of the engine enough to make a difference. Hell the B50 life of the M11 family is 800,000 miles, even if you cut that in half its going to outlive the majority of the motorhomes on the road.

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #35 – January 13, 2016, 11:38:25 pm

Looks like most of those are for trucks with OBDII engine connections. Think I may start by going to a larger turbo and see if more boost gets the EGT down some. Then maybe look at chipping.

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #36 – January 14, 2016, 11:54:45 am

There are dozens of adapters from your electronic engine diagnostic port to OBD 2 connector. With our Detroit, we have a 12 pin DDL connector but the adapter instantly connects the OBD 2 cable for chipping/remapping/diagnostics.

See adapter images at: 12 pin ddl connector obd 2 adapters image - Google Search

Dave,

It's been my experience that adding a larger turbo without adding fuel will bring down the EGT while adding a little more power. When we started installing turbos on non-turbo Mercedes diesels, we dropped the 0-60/quarter mile time by only about 3 or 4 seconds with lower EGTs. 0-60 had been about 20 seconds. The turbo brought it down to 17 seconds or so but adding fuel brought it to under 10 seconds, a huge improvement. This was with only about 7 psi boost.

If you have a laptop, a less than $20 investment in a borescope will allow you to inspect your muffler's interior for restrictions. They have a USB powered LED so no additional lighting is necessary. The HD models give a more detailed video or still image.

borescope | eBay

Attached is an image of a Lycoming aircraft muffler damage taken with just an iPhone down the exhaust pipe.

EGT readings a lower elevations may be lower than temps up at altitude. If already close to max temperature, they may reach past recommended limits. A larger turbo will bring the EGT down by increasing the difference between the first number and the second in the air fuel ratio. At higher altitudes, dropping a gear and running more RPMs will be easier on the engine by flowing more air through the engine, thus dropping EGTs. See banks good article at: Banks Power | Why EGT is Important To me, the highlight of Bank's write up is the cumulative damage that can occur over time.

Pierce

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #37 – January 15, 2016, 12:49:30 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – January 14, 2016, 11:54:45 am

There are dozens of adapters from your electronic engine diagnostic port to OBD 2 connector. With our Detroit, we have a 12 pin DDL connector but the adapter instantly connects the OBD 2 cable for chipping/remapping/diagnostics.
....
Dave,
It's been my experience that adding a larger turbo without adding fuel will bring down the EGT while adding a little more power. When we started installing turbos on non-turbo Mercedes diesels, we dropped the 0-60/quarter mile time by only about 3 or 4 seconds with lower EGTs. 0-60 had been about 20 seconds. The turbo brought it down to 17 seconds or so but adding fuel brought it to under 10 seconds, a huge improvement. This was with only about 7 psi boost.

Didn't know about the adapters from J1587/J1939 to OBDII ! Was thinking I might have to build one...

And your experience with a larger turbo matches what I would expect it to do for EGT. Current max boost on our ISC is ~21-22 lbs (measured both from a direct gauge, and by VMSpc), and that's supposed to be within specs, but the higher EGT at torque peak makes me think there should be more air. The resonator is new and straight through, so no restriction there.

When the EGT goes above ~900-1000 (after turbo) I back off or downshift or both, but it would be nice to have more power up to cooling system limits. I've been reluctant to drill the manifold in front of the turbo for the thermocouple, since I had to replace a cracked exhaust manifold about 5 years ago, and I'm a little nervous about another cracking opportunity.

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #38 – January 15, 2016, 11:20:18 am

Quote from: Dave Katsuki – January 15, 2016, 12:49:30 am

Didn't know about the adapters from J1587/J1939 to OBDII ! Was thinking I might have to build one...

Dave,

They make adapters for almost any possible situation. I can't remember the transition year (think it's 1999) but you will probably use either a 6 or 9 pin Deutsch connector. The prices really vary with the manufacturer's adapters costing quite a bit but aftermarket suppliers are much more reasonable. Here is an adapter for 6 pin Detach to OBD II at about $34 delivered. 9 pin also available or even a pigtail with both so you can't go wrong.

http://www.eBay.com/item/2-16Pinto's1587-J1708-6Pundits-/321583475603

I know you are one of the sharper guys around and already checked your air cleaner but for newbies, high exhaust temps can also be associated with a restricted intake. A combination of a restricted air cleaner, high elevation, high ambient, high engine temp and low RPM makes for high EGT.

Appreciate your concern for drilling the exhaust manifold after having to replace it once. You might think about getting several opinions from turbo rebuilders, Cummins factory shops or aftermarket suppliers. Perhaps using an aircraft type EGT clamp on the exhaust pipe just after the exhaust manifold might fill the bill and still give accurate EGT readings.

Here are images of the aircraft type clamps. Ez, 5 minute installation. aircraft egt clamp - Google Search

Pierce

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #39 – January 15, 2016, 11:36:49 am

Here is what an aircraft EGT exhaust clamp/probe looks like installed. Note, there is one for each cylinder.

Pierce

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #40 – January 15, 2016, 07:58:40 pm

It's no secret, correct turbo & proper fuel delivery the puppy will scat proper.

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Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #25 – January 06, 2016, 10:55:17 am

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #26 – January 07, 2016, 02:35:44 pm

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #27 – January 07, 2016, 03:26:43 pm

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #28 – January 08, 2016, 01:49:26 am

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #29 – January 08, 2016, 10:04:45 am

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #30 – January 11, 2016, 01:47:23 am

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #31 – January 11, 2016, 08:28:51 am

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #32 – January 11, 2016, 10:32:25 am

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #33 – January 11, 2016, 10:49:17 am

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #34 – January 11, 2016, 04:53:23 pm

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #35 – January 13, 2016, 11:38:25 pm

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #36 – January 14, 2016, 11:54:45 am

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #37 – January 15, 2016, 12:49:30 am

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #38 – January 15, 2016, 11:20:18 am

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #39 – January 15, 2016, 11:36:49 am

Re: Banks Stinger on Cumins 230hp

Reply #40 – January 15, 2016, 07:58:40 pm

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