Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Topic: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full (Read 3989 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #25 – October 02, 2010, 05:55:28 pm

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I'm also not sure where the fresh tank overflow opening is located. I assumed at the top of the tank. Therefore, I assumed that the water overflow would just run off the top then along the sides of the tank and then out the sides of the compartment,

Here is a photo of where my hose exits to the rear bulkhead.

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #26 – October 02, 2010, 06:10:52 pm

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Fresh potable drinking water has little effect on metal, infact if you submerge (and keep it so) metal in fresh water it will last as long as the same metal exposed to the air and elements.

I may have to disagree about the fresh water not causing rust.
Below are photos of a fresh water leak damage to the bulkhead.
My second bulkhead repair.
The entire area was rusted out and replaced by Foretravel.
40 hours of labor.
The leak was caused by a loose fitting on a permanent water filter I had them install and the water must have settled in that area of the bulkhead.
The last photo is the repair. Great job on the repair and should last my lifetime.

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #27 – October 02, 2010, 06:39:01 pm

Barry,

Thanks for the posts. You're scaring the begeezuz out of me. I'll have to get under behind the duallies to see if there is such an outlet for the water tank back there. Somehow I don't hold much hope for that modification as Forrest was built in 1997 and I think Foretravel was oblivious to the bulkhead issue and did not make any improvements until much later.

I could be wrong...I'll report back tomorrow once I take a look under there.

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #28 – October 02, 2010, 06:42:28 pm

Barry,

Thanks for the photos of how the overflow DOES exit the wet bay (as it should) vs dumping into the wet bay. FACTS always overcome speculation!

And, like you, I have also seen a lot of damage done by fresh water to unprotected iron and steel.

Brett Wolfe

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #29 – October 02, 2010, 07:05:25 pm

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You're scaring the begeezuz out of me. I'll have to get under behind the duallies to see if there is such an outlet for the water tank back there.

No need to worry because now you are aware of a potential issue and you can address it before you have a problem. Once you are aware than there can be no excuses for not taking care of it.

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #30 – October 02, 2010, 07:14:52 pm

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If the potable water tank overflow doesn't currently exit to the outside/below the coach, I would sure spend the time and (little) money to extend it.

I will be extending that hose exit all the way to below the frame.
After what I have seen it just ain't worth the risk

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #31 – October 02, 2010, 07:16:12 pm

Quote from: Barry Beam – October 02, 2010, 07:05:25 pm

No need to worry because now you are aware of a potential issue and you can address it before you have a problem.

Barry,

What are the signs one needs to look for? It looks like the bottom plate is removed for your photos, so much of that structure isn't normally visible for quick inspection. Does the rust/damage present itself at the bulkhead?

Michelle

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #32 – October 02, 2010, 07:21:19 pm

Barry,

I would worry about road "stuff" somehow migrating to the fresh water tank. How is this opening in such a spot kept from potentially contaminating the fresh water tank?

The above is the reason I always thought the venting of the tank was inside the coach bay and not the exterior environment...

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #33 – October 02, 2010, 07:26:43 pm

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I would worry about road "stuff" somehow migrating to the fresh water tank. How is this opening in such a spot kept from potentially contaminating the fresh water tank?

I don't think any road stuff will climb 2 feet up and 3 feet across into the tank.
I will have a fitting on the end that is angling to the rear so hopefully it will be difficult for anything to even begin to contaminate..

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #34 – October 02, 2010, 07:39:01 pm

Quote from: Barry Beam – October 02, 2010, 07:26:43 pm

Quote
I would worry about road "stuff" somehow migrating to the fresh water tank. How is this opening in such a spot kept from potentially contaminating the fresh water tank?
I don't think any road stuff will climb 2 feet up and 3 feet across into the tank.
I will have a fitting on the end that is angling to the rear so hopefully it will be difficult for anything to even begin to contaminate..

Barry,

How about a removable cap that you can easily access when you need to remove it when you want to overfill. Perhaps the cap can have an opening and an insert of a filter like material that still allows for pressure equalization as the water is drawn out of the tank?

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #35 – October 02, 2010, 11:08:54 pm

Barry,

I can't find the photo. And, I've been meaning to ask you a question. When I try to do a search of your website (even with the box checked to search only your website) I always am taken to a Google search.

What am I doing wrong?

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #36 – October 02, 2010, 11:12:33 pm

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I can't find the photo.

Which Photo?

Quote

When I try to do a search of your website (even with the box checked to search only your website) I always am taken to a Google search.

It is Google search but all the choices of what you are looking for are from my site if you have that checked.

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #37 – October 02, 2010, 11:23:52 pm

The photo showing the overflow hose from your fresh water tank

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #38 – October 02, 2010, 11:26:32 pm

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The photo showing the overflow hose from your fresh water tank

They are attached to my message at the bottom here.
Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #39 – October 02, 2010, 11:36:35 pm

Is that a factory install or did you add the overflow hose?

BTW. Good photos.

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #40 – October 02, 2010, 11:37:55 pm

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Is that a factory install or did you add the overflow hose?

Standard Factory install.

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #41 – October 06, 2010, 09:05:35 pm

Hi George,

For what it is worth---not being familiar with exactly how the overflow drains are configured let me explain how I set up my last rig.
I used two 90 degree shutoff valves like those found at rv dumpstations. I put a drain hose and valve on the vent located near the top of the tank. When water started to run out this hose I closed the valve and let the shorehose keep running. The second hose and valve I elevated above the top of the tank and used as an air intake so the tank wouldn't collapse from the suction when the pump was used. I did close the valve when water started coming out this hose but made sure to open it when we camped. This method insured that we had a full tank of water at the start. Possibly routing the hoses might let you attain a max fill without water spilling in unwanted places. Another possibility is to have the compartment open and the hoses long enough that they are outside the coach while filling.

Nighthawk

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #42 – October 06, 2010, 09:39:35 pm

On my coach the fresh water tank overflows through a hose that ends externally, high in front of the curb-side drive tires.

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #43 – October 17, 2010, 11:45:59 pm

All,
A week and a half ago, when this was a "HOT" topic, I noticed a small puddle in my hot water/ water pump bay. That turned out to be just one of the two PEX fittings on the rear of the Propane/Electric Hot Water Heater Tank that needed snugging up.

But I resolved to take some pictures to show how the fresh water overflow is configured in a '98 U270 Unicoach. The '98 U270 fresh water tank is inboard of the (curbside) hot water heater and the overflow hose exits near the top of the freshwater tank. It then travels in a short length of hose to a sealed exit hole through the aft bulkhead, just forward of the curbside drive wheels, shock and (forward) airbag. Although I've not had my hot water heater out, I'm sure that inside the water compartment, mine looks just like Barry Leavitt's pictures:

The additional pictures below, show my overflow hose configuration, on the outside of the bulkhead. The exit hole is in a high and very hard to reach area, barely an inch forward of the airbag. The outfall opening is guarded by a protective cover that is pop riveted to the bulkhead. It stands about one half inch off of the bulkhead. Thus, one can immediately see the wisdom in Barry Leavitt's decision to extend his overflow hose through the forward water compartment (divider) bulkhead and then exit the hose through the floor of the water manifold compartment. It would not be reasonably possible to extend the overflow hose in the original cramped area. Thus, be aware that in a '98 U270, at least, it would behoove you to time any overflow hose extension project with a water heater assembly removal project.

Thought that this may be of help to someone, to have this in our files.
Regards,
Neal
PS: The day these pictures were taken, we lost our all time favorite 2000 Honda Odyssey to a transmission failure.....again........So we are now totally divorced from Honda Odysseys (long story). Anyway, we've been tied up with car problems. Sorry. Otherwise, I would have gotten this posted sooner.

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #44 – October 18, 2010, 12:03:23 am

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How about a removable cap that you can easily access when you need to remove it when you want to overfill. Perhaps the cap can have an opening and an insert of a filter like material that still allows for pressure equalization as the water is drawn out of the tank?

Peter ,
Here is a photo of Barry Leavitts rerouted water overflow screen that I took this week.
After a long parlay over a soda we agreed it probably is not necessary

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #45 – October 18, 2010, 08:41:08 am

Barry,
Thanks for the update of Barry L's conversion. I too could not find the tank overflow on my coach with just a cursory "looksee". I just do not overflow the water tank now for the past 3 years, just to be safe. Somehow, I think the damage is done and waiting for repair.

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #46 – October 18, 2010, 12:28:39 pm

Peter,

I would be willing to bet that your overflow configuration and mine (and Barry Leavitt's original) were all identical. In fact, because Brett's '99 overflow exits in the same area, it may be that '96 through 2000 non-slide FT's are all the same.

For those of us with propane/electric hot water units, the internal overflow plumbing access is much more difficult, because the heater must be removed in order to gain access to the internal overflow connections (to the tank and bulkhead). To see the external exit point, you have to lay under the coach, in order to see up behind the curbside drive-wheels airbag.

One thing that I don't see being considered here is the effect of coach movement. Those of us that have followed FT's (at least of the '96 to 2000 vintage) down the highway know that on sharp left hand turns, FT's are prone to leave a trail of water as they go around the corner. That's particularly true for those (like me) that like to start our travels with a full or near full tank of fresh water when we have access to reliable, chlorinated water at our trip departure point. Before I started doing that, I got caught short too many times with unanticipated changes in plans and then we had to ration water or spend a lot of wasted energy looking for it.

It appears to me that if the FW tank is within 6 to 8 inches of being full, because the FW tank is not baffled and because (for '98 U270's at least) our overflow connection is on the side of the tank (even though it is high), when we go around a sharp left hand turn, even slowly........... like at a four way intersection, the water "piles" to that corner and anoints our surroundings (and bulkhead joints) with a new dose of FW overflow. I've travelled in FT groups where this went on over a hundred miles in a day (like travelling in a group from a FT pre-Rally to an FMCA Rally where there was not going to be any FW available for several days). Every left hand corner produced "water trails" that looked like tens of gallons of water each, but was more likely a few quarts each, if even that.

At any rate, when I have the opportunity, I intend to do what Barry did and extend my overflow line down below the coach substructure, just to better preserve my bulkhead joint. I know that my bulkhead joint problem progressed rapidly during a wet summer in New England. I strongly agree that rust jacking only needs three elements to advance in our bulkheads (the presence of interstitial chlorides, moisture and oxygen). Take away any one of the three and it stops. We can't take (all) of the chlorides out of the metal lattice structure once they are there, but we can starve them of oxygen with good surface prep and coatings and we can minimize any unnecessary wetting down of the bulkhead joint.
FWIW,
Neal

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #47 – October 18, 2010, 12:41:48 pm

This is one of those situations where I think Foretravel should step up to the plate and offer to fix this PROBLEM at cost. I don't want something for nothing, I would just like to see them own up to a bad design.

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #48 – October 18, 2010, 12:47:02 pm

Several years ago when I was making one of the first trips in my 95 as I rounded a curve from one Interstate to another to the left the truck driver behind me began to flash his lights and weave back and forth to get my attention. On the CB he told me that I had just blown a RR tire. When I pulled over I found nothing. Apparently in the low light conditions when the overflow dumped water on the tire it created what he thought was a cloud like that of a blown tire. I then knew what the overflow would look like on a FT.

Re: Making sure the fresh water tank is completely full

Reply #49 – October 18, 2010, 02:03:43 pm

Quote from: Neal Pillsbury – October 18, 2010, 12:28:39 pm

Peter,
I would be willing to bet that your overflow configuration and mine (and Barry Leavitt's original) were all identical. In fact, because Brett's '99 overflow exits in the same area, it may be that '96 through 2000 non-slide FT's are all the same.
For those of us with propane/electric hot water units, the internal overflow plumbing access is much more difficult, because the heater must be removed in order to gain access to the internal overflow connections (to the tank and bulkhead). To see the external exit point, you have to lay under the coach, in order to see up behind the curbside drive-wheels airbag.

One thing that I don't see being considered here is the effect of coach movement. Those of us that have followed FT's (at least of the '96 to 2000 vintage) down the highway know that on sharp left hand turns, FT's are prone to leave a trail of water as they go around the corner. That's particularly true for those (like me) that like to start our travels with a full or near full tank of fresh water when we have access to reliable, chlorinated water at our trip departure point. Before I started doing that, I got caught short too many times with unanticipated changes in plans and then we had to ration water or spend a lot of wasted energy looking for it.
It appears to me that if the FW tank is within 6 to 8 inches of being full, because the FW tank is not baffled and because (for '98 U270's at least) our overflow connection is on the side of the tank (even though it is high), when we go around a sharp left hand turn, even slowly........... like at a four way intersection, the water "piles" to that corner and anoints our surroundings (and bulkhead joints) with a new dose of FW overflow. I've travelled in FT groups where this went on over a hundred miles in a day (like travelling in a group from a FT pre-Rally to an FMCA Rally where there was not going to be any FW available for several days). Every left hand corner produced "water trails" that looked like tens of gallons of water each, but was more likely a few quarts each, if even that.
At any rate, when I have the opportunity, I intend to do what Barry did and extend my overflow line down below the coach substructure, just to better preserve my bulkhead joint. I know that my bulkhead joint problem progressed rapidly during a wet summer in New England. I strongly agree that rust jacking only needs three elements to advance in our bulkheads (the presence of interstitial chlorides, moisture and oxygen). Take away any one of the three and it stops. We can't take (all) of the chlorides out of the metal lattice structure once they are there, but we can starve them of oxygen with good surface prep and coatings and we can minimize any unnecessary wetting down of the bulkhead joint.
FWIW,
Neal

Neal,
Thank you for the details. I can attest to your findings on rust jacking as my bulkead separation, although slight at about 1/8 inch for about 18 inches, is all on the passenger side exactly where this FW overflow would be.

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