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Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #25
Quote
Cummins' Cincinnati dealer has it, 'cause with my bad back, bum wrist, etc, there's no way I can tackle the fuel hose swap.
At the 4 Corners rally they mentioned that Foretravel now uses Nylon hoses in the new coaches.
Wonder what Cummins will be using to replace yours?
The selected media item is not currently available.Barry BEAM #16014
2003 U320 40' AGDS
Beamalarm, Foretravel technical help and specifications
"Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve"

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #26
Silicone hose with fabric reinforcement is the long life improvement over the rubber type used in the past.  Silicone outlasts the rubber type by a large margin.
Surely the rubber hose is not really rubber, it just seems to be rubber.
Nylon does sound interesting, not sure as I have not heard of it. Surely someone has and can tell us all about it, the benefits and the negatives.

I just spoke to the Cummins Service Mgr. and he is going to try to locate a fuel hose with either the nylon or silicone material.  I'll report back with an update.
Peter & Beth Martin
No Forrest? What have you done?
MC# 15890 until Dec 2016; FMCA #F329677
Cincinnati, OH

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #27
Peter, I just had a go around with my Cummins Service Manger, who reminded me of a few things, and the big point is, any line used for fuel,Diesel or gasoline, must be rated for that fuel, and yes there is Silicone  hose that is rated for diesel, and there is nylon hose, the big thing about the nylon, it is only seen in very high priced fuel systems, such as race cars. The high priced nylon is inside a metal woven sleeve, and it very high priced I am told.
He never has seen any around a Cummins engine, they at the Cummins shop use mostly, the normall rubber type with the fabric reinforcement and in some areas you can use the same plastic (?) what ever it is made out of that is used on the air brake systems.  Do not think it is called nylon, my guess it is some sort of PVC, but that is a guess, I don't know what it is called, I know where to get it, and have used it alot for lots of things like oil pressure lines etc also.
So who knows , guess it is like alot of things, and do the best you can and hope for the best, at least you will learn from it.
FWIW
Dave

Dave,
Thank you for the amplification.  The Cummins Service Mgr. here in Cincinnati is a very accommodating fellow, so he'll call me when they have some alternatives and pricing, if any, to the standard diesel fuel hose readily available.
Peter & Beth Martin
No Forrest? What have you done?
MC# 15890 until Dec 2016; FMCA #F329677
Cincinnati, OH

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #28
Peter,
              See post, http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=7653.msg33432#msg33432, for Aeroquip part no. About 3.00/ft. That hose lasted for 13 years and was not leaking/sucking air but I thought I would replace it when I saw the cracking. Someone also mentioned that the cracking was only at the bends, and that was my observation also. When I pulled out the old hose all of it looked good except where the bending in the generator bay was.
Good luck,
Rick

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #29
I wanted to give you a status update on our diesel engine on the genset running for a few minutes and then dying.  After reading about cracked/damaged diesel hoses possibly causing this problem for others,  I checked out the hoses earlier last week. I found by moving one hose around a bit, I could cause the engine to sound like it was about to die or to make it run smoother.  So I checked further.  When I moved that hose around sometimes, I would see a small spray of fuel. So I knew it had at least one hole/crack in it.  The hoses on the engine looked like original hoses.

Fortunately the hose feeding the engine from the fuel tank appears good and it appears to have already been replaced. This is because it has different hose clamps (screw type) instead of the crimp type on the hoses on the engine and the hose looks good.

I wound up replacing all but one hose on the diesel engine last night.  After checking/servicing the house batteries, I found I could press the rocker switch in one direction for preheat and prime. So I pushed it in that direction and heard what sounded like the fuel pump running. So I did this for a period of time and then pressed the rocker switch in the start position.  I did this two or three times and the engine started running briefly.  Then I repeated this and started it again. This time, it ran continuously for 30-60 minutes. 

At times, it will sound like it is about to die, but it comes back and continues to run.  I don't know what might be this cause. But it did not die until I stopped it last night. 

So I think I have made quite a bit of progress. 

I found no indication of any leaks on or around the hoses I replaced last night.
Morris and Janice
1997 U270 36'

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #30
Fortunately the hose feeding the engine from the fuel tank appears good and it appears to have already been replaced. This is because it has different hose clamps (screw type) instead of the crimp type on the hoses on the engine and the hose looks good.

Yesterday, I decided to pull the genset out as far as the slide would go.  I checked and added coolant.  Then I checked the hose feeding the engine from the fuel tank since I had a much better view of it with the genset out.  Unfortunately, I found several small cracks in the hose surface. So it looks like I will have to replace this hose after all.

Quote
At times, it will sound like it is about to die, but it comes back and continues to run.  I don't know what might be this cause. But it did not die until I stopped it last night. 

After adding the coolant and doing the various visual checks, I decided to start it up again to see how it would run.  It ran smooth as silk....no instances of it sounding like it was about to die at all.  It sounded great and ran very smoothly for 1 hour and then I killed it.  It looks like replacing the hoses has helped a lot. 

How does the engine cooling do any good at all when the diesel genset is back inside the compartment?  It looks like foam from the compartment sidewall fits tight against the radiator shroud.  I don't see how it cools any at all due to no or very little air circulation with the foam against the radiator shroud.
Morris and Janice
1997 U270 36'

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #31
Morris, On the GV's air is drawn in from below and behind the generator and the radiator fan exhausts it to the rear thru a box directed to the ground. I am sure the bus types have a similar arrangement even though they are front mounted. It is important that the foam around the fan shroud be kept in place to ensure good air flow.
While you have the genny  pulled out do a close inspection of the fan belt, its a PITA to get to and is easily neglected.



Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #32
On ours (99 U270, Isuzu 8KW), there is an opening in the foam on the drivers side that allows the radiator air to exhaust into the space beside the steering box.
Dave and Nancy
1999/2013 U270 36' Xtreme
Motorcade # 16774
2013 Subaru Outback
KD0NIM

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #33
Do not over look the fuel filter between the body and genset.  It also shows  up acting a lot like you describe when it gets plugged up with dirt.
Dave

The fuel filter on our Isuzu 3LB1 engine is on the right hand side of the engine between the oil filter and the oil filler on the side of the engine.  I have replacement filters on order for the oil, air and fuel.  I hope to replace them and the oil later this week.

Thank you.
Morris and Janice
1997 U270 36'

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #34
Morris, On the GV's air is drawn in from below and behind the generator and the radiator fan exhausts it to the rear thru a box directed to the ground. I am sure the bus types have a similar arrangement even though they are front mounted. It is important that the foam around the fan shroud be kept in place to ensure good air flow.
While you have the genny  pulled out do a close inspection of the fan belt, its a PITA to get to and is easily neglected.

Checking the fan belt is a good reminder. I have not done that yet.  I will make sure I check it.  I bet it is a PITA!!!  Thank you very much.
Morris and Janice
1997 U270 36'

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #35
On ours (99 U270, Isuzu 8KW), there is an opening in the foam on the drivers side that allows the radiator air to exhaust into the space beside the steering box.

I will have to check again.  I didn't see any opening, but maybe I did not look close enough.  But there almost has to be one somewhere.  Thank you.
Morris and Janice
1997 U270 36'

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #36
Right on about the fuel filter, most units have an additional fuel pre-filter between the fuel tank and the generator. This filter is the one that gets over looked a lot..
I guess it is possible your unit does not have this additional filter.
Sorry for the confusion.
Dave

Thank you for your comments.  I will double check. But I believe the hose from the tank connects to a block of some sort then goes to the inlet to the fuel pump then from the fuel pump directly into the inlet to the fuel filter.  From the fuel filter the fuel then goes on to the engine.  But I will double check when I have the compartment open again.
Morris and Janice
1997 U270 36'

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #37
I have a 8.0 in my U270 99 and I had problem with the genset not starting or run for few seconds and cut off. I didn't know there was an in line filter right before the block electric fuel pump.
Mine had never been replaced.  It didn't look like a filter but part of the hose.  $5.00 item and fixed the problem.  DAn Stansel U270 99 36
Dan & Shirley Stansel
2002 U295 4020 AGDS Build#6054
Towing Buick Enclave & M &  G Braking
Emerald Bay, Lake Palestine, Texas
MC# 16650

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #38
I have a 8.0 in my U270 99 and I had problem with the genset not starting or run for few seconds and cut off. I didn't know there was an in line filter right before the block electric fuel pump.
Mine had never been replaced.  It didn't look like a filter but part of the hose.  $5.00 item and fixed the problem.  DAn Stansel U270 99 36

Do you have the Isuzu diesel engine on your genset?  If so, is it possible to post some pics of the inline fuel filter?  I don't recall seeing anything that looked like an inline filter.

Ours has the Isuzu diesel engine on the genset....

Thank you.
Morris and Janice
1997 U270 36'

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #39
Here's the update on my PT generator repair:
Picked up the coach today.  Cummins replaced the fuel hoses to/from the generator.  Standard fuel hose was used ($1.30 per foot; sounds reasonable).  Charged 13 hours to diagnose & replace the hoses @ $102 per hour.  To me that sounded a bit much.
Peter & Beth Martin
No Forrest? What have you done?
MC# 15890 until Dec 2016; FMCA #F329677
Cincinnati, OH

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #40
Sounds just like Cummins to me.
The selected media item is not currently available.Kent Speers
Locust Grove, OK
1993 U300 SSE 40' (Restored at FOT 2009) Build 4323
720 watts Solar
6V92TA DDEC Silver Engine
2014 Subaru Outback

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #41
Peter,

Prior to picking up our "new to us" 95 Foretravel I had MOT change oil, belts, filters, etc.  Also told them if they found anything that looked questionable to repair or replace.  They found only a few minor things. One being the top bracket on generator radiator fan guard was broken, they welded bracket back together and reinstalled, replaced leaking hose on generator. TOTAL COST=$294.00

Sure would question Cummins on that price...
We are only strangers until we meet; however, some of us are stranger than others

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #42
Peter,

Prior to picking up our "new to us" 95 Foretravel I had MOT change oil, belts, filters, etc.  Also told them if they found anything that looked questionable to repair or replace.  They found only a few minor things. One being the top bracket on generator radiator fan guard was broken, they welded bracket back together and reinstalled, replaced leaking hose on generator. TOTAL COST=$294.00

Sure would question Cummins on that price...
Yup!

Question?  Try an outright rant with the service manager!  Sometimes I think I would be money ahead to save all the repair stuff for one trip to MOT.  The $1,000 trip cost too Nac & back may pay for itself.
Peter & Beth Martin
No Forrest? What have you done?
MC# 15890 until Dec 2016; FMCA #F329677
Cincinnati, OH

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #43
My sentiments exactly. Either MOT or FOT.  We schedule our service appointment whenever we plan on being in East Texas.

I have been lucky with our Cummins dealer in Harrisburg. Always been treated fairly and work done is tops. PA has a yearly inspection for motor homes and I always have service done at the same time.

But, I never leave my motor home when having service work done....ANYWHERE..  Although I do understand it is not possible in all situations.
We are only strangers until we meet; however, some of us are stranger than others

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #44
Here's the update on my PT generator repair:
Picked up the coach today.  Cummins replaced the fuel hoses to/from the generator.  Standard fuel hose was used ($1.30 per foot; sounds reasonable).  Charged 13 hours to diagnose & replace the hoses @ $102 per hour.  To me that sounded a bit much.

Sounds like there was some serious "hosing" going on.
George Stoltz.  Retired from full-time living in a great Foretravel and now are back to living in a traditional sticks and bricks in Florida.

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #45
Jeff,
The quality of the work at Cummins in Cincinnati is excellent.  I just think they take "liberties" in hours charged.  For example:  5 hours to diagnose the problem & 8 hours to do the fuel hose swap?
Peter & Beth Martin
No Forrest? What have you done?
MC# 15890 until Dec 2016; FMCA #F329677
Cincinnati, OH

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #46
Hello all, My generator on my 1999 U295 starts and runs then shuts off (it may run 30 min or 5 min) with low oil light, ES52 Dynagen auto start controller, oil pressure is 60psi hot, oil pressure sender is new, fuel pressure is 4.5 lbs. It will also do the same thing with the o/p sender unhooked, I have ran a new wire to the sender directly from the controller no joy. I am thinking the controller is bad. Anyone have any thoughts or experiance with these?
Thanks
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #47
Hello all, My generator on my 1999 U295 starts and runs then shuts off (it may run 30 min or 5 min) with low oil light, ES52 Dynagen auto start controller, oil pressure is 60psi hot, oil pressure sender is new, fuel pressure is 4.5 lbs. It will also do the same thing with the o/p sender unhooked, I have ran a new wire to the sender directly from the controller no joy. I am thinking the controller is bad. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with these?
Thanks
Check below,
I merged your message with a previous thread on the subject.
The selected media item is not currently available.Barry BEAM #16014
2003 U320 40' AGDS
Beamalarm, Foretravel technical help and specifications
"Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve"

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #48
My gen-set used to shut down along the same time frame, but with no lights.  I found that the blower for the radiator had an on/off switch.  When I found it in the off position (probably for winter), I turned it on and the problem went away.  The gen-set was just overheating for lack of cooling.
Michael Baldacchino
'97 40' U320

Re: Generator (Genset) starts but then Shuts off

Reply #49
Your Power Tech problem should be a very simple fix. I am enclosing the service manual for the ES-52 and you should be able to follow the whole system and find your roblem.
Good luck :)