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Topic: Is WINN 200200 working (Read 1568 times) previous topic - next topic

Is WINN 200200 working

My questions are:
How can I tell if the WINN air purge is working?
How easy is it to restart after running out of fuel.

Here is my story.

I ran out of fuel at a campout. Must have just made it without realizing it.

Fuel gauge read 1/8th tank with 793 miles since fuel up, so thought there was 30 gallons left.
While at a campout with a Good Sam Chapter last weekend, I dipped the fuel tank with a short copper tube on a string. There was 1.25 inches of fuel in the tank.

I drove with car and found service station 2 miles away and returned to get Foretravel.
Engine started, then in 30 seconds sputtered and died, so could not move and did not attempt to restart.

I reset the dash fuel gauge to read ZERO.

I borrowed a 5 gal diesel can from RV Park and made two trips to get diesel.

Level in tank went from 1.25 inches to 2.75 inches which is consistent with my other calculations.

I removed fuel filter and topped it up to overflow and reinstalled it.

Pressed "air purge button" at back of engine three times and "air purge" light stayed on for about a minute each time, but there was no evidence that it did anything, no sounds of a pump.

Engine fired after 15 seconds of winding, ran 30 seconds, stumbled and died. Restarted after 10 seconds of winding and then drove to station and got more diesel.

Drove home after that so all is well.

I am amazed at how easy it was to start after running out of fuel.
I heard horror stories from a Bluebird (DD 6V92 and 60 series) owner talking about a mechanic needing a couple hours to restart after running out of fuel.

Are M11's easier to start then DD after running out of fuel, or was I just lucky.

Wyatt
Wyatt
96 U320 40 WTFE, build 4943
84 Toyota Supra towd
2015 Jeep Wrangler towd
Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Is WINN 200200 working

Reply #1 –
Wyatt, Sounds like an educational experience.
First, when I change fuel filters, I do not fill them at all, just lube the seal and screw on.  Than open the air vent on the Winn pump, push button, when I get fuel out of the vent hole,  close the valve, keep pumping until pump stops, at that time all my filters are full and engine starts and runs just fine.

Yes, anything is easier to start than a Detroit Diesel that has run dry of fuel.

As for a Detroit 2 cycle engine as in older Bluebirds, you bet, if you run it  out and get the mechanical pump out of fuel, it is very educational to restart.  You have to pump fuel through the primary filter and get the mechanical pump full of fuel, from there, the pump will push the fuel on through the system and it will run fine.  The key is not let the mechanical gear pump run dry, as a dry pump will not move fuel, it has to have a lot of fuel in the pump to start moving the fuel.  As the saying goes, been there yada yada etc...
Have zero experience with the 60 Series.
Good luck
Dave

Re: Is WINN 200200 working

Reply #2 –
Thanks Dave, great information.
Where is the "air vent" on the Winn pump, and where is the "button"?

I believe on a 2001 that the WINN purge system is mounted at the rear of the engine.
On my 95 the WINN purge system is in front of the engine, behind the start batteries.
Wyatt
96 U320 40 WTFE, build 4943
84 Toyota Supra towd
2015 Jeep Wrangler towd
Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Is WINN 200200 working

Reply #3 –
Good,
Top Pix
There is a plate Parker Name on it, it has a button for air purge and a button for H2O purge.


Bottom Pix shows the silver metal valve cover
The Bleeder is a schrader valve (Like a tire air valve with a metal cap)  just open the valve slightly or use a metal tip to push it in slightly to relieve the air pressure, when you get only fuel, your done.

Look at the two pix, hope they answer the mystrey.
Dave

Re: Is WINN 200200 working

Reply #4 –
Thanks Dave
I see the air valve which is behind the fuel hose so it was not obvious.
To the left of the air valve in your picture is a thumb screw with a rubber washer on it, do you know what that is for?

I also have the panels in your other picture, but "Foretravel" cannot be read on my start panel.

Your Racor panel looks like my WINN panel, and that has the "air purge" button I pressed.
According to the directions I have, the air is pushed through the return line to the fuel tank, so air valve does not have to be used when the "air purge button" is pressed. The air purge light is on for about a minute after pressing the "air purge button".
Does perhaps using the air purge valve speed the process of removing air?

I believe I have the problem of leaking "O" rings with the WINN see through bowl because when I rotate it there is a sucking sound which stops when I rotate it back to where it was before I touched it.

I will look in the files section for instructions on how to service the WINN fuel air/water seperator.

Wyatt
96 U320 40 WTFE, build 4943
84 Toyota Supra towd
2015 Jeep Wrangler towd
Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Is WINN 200200 working

Reply #5 –
It is possible the reason I open the vent line is because I always have bleed the fuel system, and am not fully aware of what all the Racor/Winns systems can/does do.  Just old habit I guess.

Yes the "O" Rings on the clear plastic bottle do get old and dried out, I have replaced the plastic bottle and it came with new "O" Rings, no problem.

Always good to feel comfy with the systems.

Good luck
Dave

Re: Is WINN 200200 working

Reply #6 –
I found WINN instructions on BeamAlarm, thanks to Barry.

The thumb bolt is removed to allow top block to come off when removing primary see through bowl and stainless 200 micron screen. I will do this soon.

When purging air instructions are: to press "air purge" button then open air valve to bleed air but close when fuel starts or you will create a mess (exact words), then allow 60 second cycle to complete. If no fuel is evident in see through bowl, press "air purge" button again. If still no fuel visible, look for problem before cycling again. If fuel appears after first cycle, press "air purge" again and immediately start engine.

 
Wyatt
96 U320 40 WTFE, build 4943
84 Toyota Supra towd
2015 Jeep Wrangler towd
Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Is WINN 200200 working

Reply #7 –
This is an update on my previous post.

I removed the clear prefilter bowl on the Winn 200200 "water separator air purge" unit on my 1996 U320. I used silicon to seal it up and drove from Canada to California without a problem. A couple weeks in California and I noticed that the prefilter bowl seals were again allowing air into the fuel system. Also, applying 12 volts directly to the Winn 200200 pump resulted in noise and current draw but the pump would not spin or pump diesel.

I ordered a Racor 790R30 water separator/air purge system from a company selling Monaco overstocked parts via eBay.
I paid less than $300 including shipping and had little difficulty installing the unit. I had to drill and tap new mounting holes in the frame. I removed the Winn control panel and wiring and installed the Racor control box in the chassis battery compartment. I will run new wires and use Extra#1 to install a water-in-fuel warning light on the dash. I installed an on/off switch and LED lights in the Racor control box. The on/off switch is wired directly to the battery. I also made a suction line from an old tire hand pump so I could suck air out of fuel feed line because I was not sure if the Racor pump could be run dry. The Racor control runs the purge pump only when the button is pushed while the Winn controller runs the purge pump for a set length of time each time the button is pressed. Also water purge is automatically with the Winn unit but manually with a thumb screw on the Racor unit.

My advice to anyone experiencing air leaks with a Winn 200200 filter is to replace it with the Racor 790R30.

FWIW 

Wyatt, in Victoria for Christmas
Wyatt
96 U320 40 WTFE, build 4943
84 Toyota Supra towd
2015 Jeep Wrangler towd
Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Is WINN 200200 working

Reply #8 –
Amen to replacing the Winn system....it has been a pain since I bought the coach in July. It left me on the pad for the last time at the park last weekend. It has been removed and a plain water separator (60 total with filter)from the great guys at the Cummins store in San Antonio was installed by me in an hour and I have had zero problems!
Mark Self
1997 40' U320
2005 LX7 Suzuki
USPSA-a18138
Ham radio-WM5S
Driving my Daughter Shea to Sporting Clay shoots is my Job!!!!

Re: Is WINN 200200 working

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Mark and Tracy –
Amen to replacing the Winn system....it has been a pain since I bought the coach in July. It left me on the pad for the last time at the park last weekend. It has been removed and a plain water separator (60 total with filter)from the great guys at the Cummins store in San Antonio was installed by me in an hour and I have had zero problems!

Hey Mark,

I just gave you a Karma for your role in life of driving your daughter to clay shoots.  You will look back on that time with fondness.  Kids are great. 
George Stoltz.  Retired from full-time living in a great Foretravel and now are back to living in a traditional sticks and bricks in Florida.

Re: Is WINN 200200 working

Reply #10 –
The reason I did not install just a water seperator is that the air purge pump makes it very simple and clean to restart after running out of fuel or replacing the fuel filters.
 
A friend has a 1992 U300 which does not have a water seperator or air purge, but he said running out of fuel is something he just can not afford to do.
 
Wyatt
 1996 U320 40 WTFE Build 4943

Quote
To: pwyatts@hotmail.com

Amen to replacing the Winn system....it has been a pain since I bought the coach in July. It left me on the pad for the last time at the park last weekend. It has been removed and a plain water separator (60 total with filter)from the great guys at the Cummins store in San Antonio was installed by me in an hour and I have had zero problems!
 
Mark Self
1997 40' U320
2005 LX7 Suzuki
USPSA-a18138
Ham radio-WM5S
Driving my Daughter Shea to Sporting Clay shoots is my Job!!!!

Wyatt
96 U320 40 WTFE, build 4943
84 Toyota Supra towd
2015 Jeep Wrangler towd
Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Is WINN 200200 working

Reply #11 –
What fuel filter are you using as a secondary?  FT installed a Racor R90P for the primary filter and I can find nothing to tell me which filter to use for the secondary.  Should it be a plain filter with a 2 micron ability or another water separator filter?   
Laurel Hill, FL
 To do is to be---- Nietzsche
  To be is to do-----Kant
  Do be do be do----Sinatra

Re: Is WINN 200200 working

Reply #12 –
Jerry,
On our 97 we have a Fleetguard FS 1212 for secondary that is hid on the side of engine block with the Racor R90P as primary.
Pamela & Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."