I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Topic: I think I should get this hub seal checked out (Read 1904 times) previous topic - next topic

I think I should get this hub seal checked out

October 21, 2010, 07:15:22 pm

I was walking around and looking at my coach today and saw some oil streaks on two wheels. I wonder what would cause this? I think I need to get it checked out. And I am thinking about going to Encore. Keith Risch works there and as some of us know, Keith is a first-rate diagnostician and RV tech. And with FOT and MOT so busy it can't hurt to send some business to Encore.

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #1 – October 21, 2010, 07:33:39 pm

Quote

I was walking around and looking at my coach today and saw some oil streaks on two wheels. I wonder what would cause this?

George, it looks like your hub seals are leaking.
Stemco Hub Cap Window Kit

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #2 – October 21, 2010, 07:50:24 pm

Quote from: Barry Beam – October 21, 2010, 07:33:39 pm

George, it looks like your hub seals are leaking.

What Barry said. You might want to check your hub levels before driving to Nac. Easy enough to check and add fluid if needed until the seals can be looked at.

Michelle

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #3 – October 21, 2010, 07:52:37 pm

Yup, do not pass go-- you need new seals NOW-- oil volume is measured in OUNCES, so you don't want to drive it until fixed unless you remove the cap and keep the oil bath topped up (oil level ring has an arrow showing proper level when coach is on level ground).

And I recommend using a synthetic gear lube in front as well as rear axle.

Brett

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #4 – October 21, 2010, 07:58:21 pm

A search for:

replacing hub fluids

did not yield any information

How do I go about doing this? Would NAPA have the fluids? We have 200 more miles to drive to Nac.

Finally, what causes seals to leak?

Thanks

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #5 – October 21, 2010, 08:37:41 pm

George,

At this point your pictures look like seepage, not leakage. Look at the inside of each wheel. Any wetness there would require the actions others have suggested. Barring that, your seepage is most likely to be from hardened red plugs, which you can get from any heavy truck parts house. Let us know what you find regarding oil level in each hub. I would bet you find no oil levels below spec at this point.

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #6 – October 21, 2010, 08:41:41 pm

You have a leaking hub seal. Possible fire hazard if brakes get hot and fluid leaks onto them.

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #7 – October 21, 2010, 08:47:13 pm

Quote from: Steve – October 21, 2010, 08:24:04 pm

Quote
Finally, what causes seals to leak?
Age and heat .... I've had to replace a couple of mine over the years, mostly on the tag for some reason.

The hubs should use 85W gear oil, you can find it anywhere including Walmart.

Just remove your front hub caps and tag axle top hats (pull off the decorative lug caps and the rest will come right off). Once done you will see a red cap, its a rubber plug and will pull right out. Add in the gear oil until you are at the full line and put the plug back in.

You guys are the best. I can only find these red rubber plugs on front axles. Does that mean rear bearings are lubricated differently. If not, there is no way I can get those lug nuts off.

I will add oil tomorrow.

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #8 – October 21, 2010, 08:49:38 pm

Here is my photo

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #9 – October 21, 2010, 09:02:18 pm

George,

Oil level in that photo is fine (assuming coach is on level ground/not leaning). If that is the one showing signs of oil trails, I wonder if it was overfilled?

Brett Wolfe

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #10 – October 21, 2010, 09:06:21 pm

Brett,

Yes. that is the one. I will check the other front wheel tomorrow when it is light outside. Nice to know I don't have a problem. Lucky me.

Are real wheel bearing lubricated differently? We had new rotors and pads installed in August on drive wheels.

George

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #11 – October 21, 2010, 09:13:21 pm

George,

From that angle that hub looks to be overfilled which would cause it to leak out past the plug. On mine there are two concentric circles on the clear section, one for full and one for add and I think the full is only 1/2 between the bottom and the plug.

And yes the drive axle is a different beast, only the front axle and tag axle will have these fill ports since in those areas all that is turning is the wheel. The drive axle will have a shaft that goes back to the differential. The axle, differential etc is filled with lubricant. So if you have a leak there, I believe you need to drain the differential, undo the hub bolts, replace the seals, refill the differential and that will not be measured in ounces of oil

When you pull off the rear top hat see if you can determine where the oil came from.

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #12 – October 21, 2010, 09:19:40 pm

Steve,

In the full light of morning, I will give it another look. On the drive axle I remember that they had to tilt the coach to fill the differential completely. Looking at the area under the "top hat" in darkness with a flashlight, I did not see anything suspicious. but I will take another look in the morning.

On another subject, that was an impressive posting you made about the slide room sensors. You make a seemingly complicated task seem easy.

Third subject: I hope your generator is now happily functioning.

Thanks

George

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #13 – October 21, 2010, 10:57:57 pm

George,
As Brett and Steve have mentioned, be sure to check the inside of your wheel. The seal is on the inside of your hub. If you have oil inside the wheel and on the disc brake rotor, you need to have the seal replaced (a job for the Pro's only). As with others, it looks, (to me) more like minor seepage by the red (hub oil fill) plug, and possibly overfill, depending on how level the coach was at the time of the picture. Your drive wheel looks like it could be just the hub gasket.

I discovered a front wheel seal leaking while at TN RV, on the way home, last spring. There was no evidence of seal leakage whatsoever on the outside of the wheel, but the inside of the wheel and the rotor was well doused with leaking hub oil. The level in the hub was about half way between the full and add rings.
Due to some bad work performance during this stop (first time I've ever had a poor experience at TN RV), I did not let them touch the hub assembly. I had talked with my Cummins service center near home in NH, and based on that discussion, removed as much oil as possible from the hub and then added Lucas Hub Oil back to the full mark (a couple of times over 4 days......because the oil has to seep through the outer and inner bearings to equalize the level). The Lucas oil is a proprietary blend of synthetics for extreme duty applications.
http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?catid=2&iid=35&loc=show
Professional truck fleets use it whenever they have evidence of a seal going bad and the racing crowd uses it for its extreme service/durability rather than standard hub oil.
I cleaned the inner part of the wheel and the disc brake as thoroughly as I could. Then I checked the inside of the wheel frequently during the rest of the way to NH. I never had to add any more hub oil and after the residuals were "slung out" in the first hundred miles, I ceased seeing anything inside the wheel.
A front seal replacement is expensive and well worth finding a highly skilled shop. There are more ways to screw up a seal (and hub) than Carter has Liver Pills.
I'd reference you some National Safety Trucking Bulletins if I could find them.
Good luck,
Let us Know what you find,
Neal

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #14 – October 21, 2010, 11:22:58 pm

George,
BTW, my son is a trucking Owner/Operator and a very thorough Pro in all of his work.
Age and heat and rough treatment can certainly prematurely fail a seal. But there is probably a far less evident underlying cause as well. He has had steer axle seals last well over a million miles on one side and well less than a hundred thousand on the opposite side of new Peterbilt tractors. He attributes it to assembly line issues and mechanics not being knowledgeable in their handling of the seals, bearings and hubs, improper torquing during reassembly and failing to adhere to acceptable run-out tolerances, among other things. He won't trust anyone else to do his, but himself.
When I had my seal replaced this summer, that side was not properly torqued, "as Found". When they checked the other side, torque and run-out were perfect (@ 146K miles).
Good Luck.
Neal

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #15 – October 22, 2010, 12:03:05 am

Brett,

Careful! You will have George up all night worrying!

:-)

Tim

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #16 – October 22, 2010, 09:51:47 am

Naw. Slept like a baby last night.

One more question. I do not have any concentric circles to show correct level. On mine, the oil level on the right hub is just below the red plug. I removed the plug with my fingers. Snug fit, not real tight. Should I add more oil to bring it just to the bottom of the opening into which the red plug fits?

The oil level on the left hub is about 1/8th inch higher.

Would you recommend that I get new plugs from MOT or FOT?

Thanks to all.

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #17 – October 22, 2010, 11:46:30 am

What about Lucas Hub Oil? Is this a good product to add to top off the fluid level?

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #18 – October 22, 2010, 04:33:57 pm

Dave,

3/4" to 1" below the plug sound way too low.

The correct oil level "circle" is just below/outside the hole for the plug. 1" below would barely be visible.

Said another way, I doubt you have more than about one inch between fill plug and the aluminum housing.

Brett Wolfe

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #19 – October 22, 2010, 04:49:02 pm

Would it be helpful if I took another photo with the plug removed?

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #20 – October 22, 2010, 04:51:13 pm

George,

The fill line is very difficult to see. It is scribed very lightly into the plastic.

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #21 – October 22, 2010, 05:21:49 pm

I am posting two more photos below. I used a better camera (better lens) and got really close.

I think the level is almost perfect, but I'd like to hear from Brett and Amos again.

Now, to my inexperience. I was looking for two small circles -- one inside of the other.
Duh. Concentric rings means different things to different people.

I can find no evidence of any fluid leaks under the hub cap.

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #22 – October 22, 2010, 05:33:18 pm

George,

My "FULL Ring" is about 1/4" below the Fill plug.

Neal

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #23 – October 22, 2010, 05:34:07 pm

Quote

I think the level is almost perfect

George, It is right on the money perfect

Re: I think I should get this hub seal checked out

Reply #24 – October 22, 2010, 05:49:18 pm

Thanks, Barry.

Once again ForeForum comes through.

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