Upcoming FT model

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Upcoming FT model

October 30, 2010, 12:46:25 am

Dave,
Kinda like this?
Neal

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #1 – October 30, 2010, 01:22:23 am

Looks like it will keel over in a stiff wind - kinda like a fainting goat...
Guess they are shooting for the H3/Newell crowd now.
The H3 guy I spoke to today said he could literally drive all day long and be fresh as a daisy.
James said his XL was like riding in a limo, when you take the 45 feet, the tag, the IFS and an ISRI seat...

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #2 – October 30, 2010, 10:51:04 am

Quote from: Dave Head – October 30, 2010, 01:22:23 am

Looks like it will keel over in a stiff wind - kinda like a fainting goat...

It is the ultimate behemoth when you're used to being around a U or GV coach. Got to see them attaching the front end cap on our factory tour with Tyle a little over a week ago. They had to modify the building to accommodate the height.... Those "Caution - 13' 6" Under Clearance Turnpike Structures" signs on I-295 in Maine would give one quite the case of nerves in a 13' 3" tall coach.

Michelle

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #3 – October 30, 2010, 11:46:00 am

That reminds me of a funny we saw early this year. We were coming into Dallas from OK on 75, transitioning to 635 - going over the new freeway
'multilevel' over (and over and under) passes.
The first underpass sign said 'height' 16' 5" - over the next quarter mile or so there were 4 more underpass signs (same road, no joins) - ALL INCREASING! I started laughing and Starr asked what I was laughing about. I pointed out that if you were over 16'5" the other warning signs really didn't matter.
Probably a state or federal law, but still pretty darned stupid...

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #4 – October 30, 2010, 03:49:15 pm

Yesterday, I spoke to Lance Hays about this upcoming model and asked if they were going after the Newell customer. He said that they wanted to give the Phenix owners something to trade up to. He expected that the price would still be 25% below a Newell

Bob
2000 40 ft U270
Scion Xb
at FOT until 11-2-10

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #5 – October 30, 2010, 03:54:44 pm

Quote from: Steve & Michelle – October 30, 2010, 10:51:04 am

Those "Caution - 13' 6" Under Clearance Turnpike Structures" signs on I-295 in Maine would give one quite the case of nerves in a 13' 3" tall coach.

My oldest son drives car carriers. He says its a blast to ride in the top front car when going down the road. He talked one of his fellow drivers into letting him take a ride up there! Myself, I don't like the idea - peeled a roof on a trailer a long time ago. So low clearances still make me nervous.

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #6 – October 31, 2010, 08:58:22 am

Flat floor and a different look. I think out west it will be a fine thing but there are 12' 8" bridges around here all over. In fact the Skyline Drive has one at 12' 8" and that is not the only one I see. I think a new XL2 Prevost is 12' 7" but now FT is entering into the H3 range of 13' 3" . It will give a more residential feel to the coach but at the expense of always looking up I think. I wonder though, what the new Phenix guys are saying. I just bought the top of the line last year and they have a new one. Lance may have something there. It may also make the price of the trade ins go down a bit. Most of the prices in the RV market have cratered and they had a 4% decrease in shipments so even over poor numbers they are not improving in the class A market. Oh well, time will tell. I do want to see one of these though. It should be pretty nice inside.

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #7 – October 31, 2010, 10:37:54 am

Frankly, I think the new coach is a monstrosity. I really think FT is getting away from the some of the design principles that made them famous. Any additional convenience from the expanded space provided by these new coaches is more than countered by their height and total size. In addition, they are so complex that there is bound to be something that has gone awry most of the time. Heck... that is almost true with our ventage of FT. And what is the advantage of an all electric coach? I just don't get it. But then I'm not in the RV business.

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #8 – October 31, 2010, 11:42:45 am

Quote from: George Hatfield – October 31, 2010, 10:37:54 am

Frankly, I think the new coach is a monstrosity. I really think FT is getting away from the some of the design principles that made them famous. Any additional convenience from the expanded space provided by these new coaches is more than countered by their height and total size. In addition, they are so complex that there is bound to be something that has gone awry most of the time. Heck... that is almost true with our ventage of FT. And what is the advantage of an all electric coach? I just don't get it. But then I'm not in the RV business.

George,
You're absolutely right. Maybe the Nimbus will remain more in line with the traditional modern motorhome utility. If Foretravel wants to capture a different market niche, that's fine. I just think that getting back to 3 coach price ranges would sell more units. Foretravel needs that 3rd coach that is simpler w/o so many added expensive items that many high end RV'ers want. But, maybe the management thinks that they'll leave that type of coach to someone else to keep sellling.

And, what about advancing to new technologies to improve weight and fuel economy?

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #9 – October 31, 2010, 12:08:06 pm

I agree with George (the other) and Peter. Here are my thoughts on how Foretravel should operate their business.

We all know or at least can imagine how difficult it must be to acquire a business and then enter a serious economic downturn. Most companies look for ways to increase the revenue stream. Certainly repairs and renovations have helped maintain the Foretravel income stream.

I have to assume that ownership has done some market research and believes that bigger and more expensive is better. I wonder if they also looked past sales records to see what percentage of sales were for the U270 and U295? Those records have to be an indicator of future sales.

So I wonder just how much a bigger and more expensive coach that fewer customers can buy will add to their revenue stream.

I like the various "trim levels" in a vehicle. The automotive industry has been doing it for decades with great success.

That's my two cents worth.

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #10 – October 31, 2010, 12:17:05 pm

Sales are off across the board. The increase you might see in percentage terms is still a drop in the buck compared to where we were. There are not many manufacturers even producing full bore right now, in fact most are just barely putting out units. The margin to build a FT be it a Nimbus or Phenix is the difference. The cost of the electronic is a bit more but the 200K plus difference is not all made up in engine and electric blinds. I think the Nimbus is not as profitable and it will be too hard to compete with those platforms at the price point.

I do think they are going to be too high in price for what they offer. I like my Ft but in looking at bus conversions you are hitting the new price of those. I know Texas Custom Coachworks will build me a new Prevost conversion with no slides for well under what a phenix is listed for so that is going to be a limiting issue. I guess time will tell.

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #11 – October 31, 2010, 12:28:29 pm

Trade up to a new model ? How many Phenix owners can there be ? And how many of those will be trading up ? Looks to me like a small market.
It also looks like there are those who really believe that they can increase profit by raising prices instead of raising volume, and decreasing costs. American business at its best ?
Good luck to all of them.

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #12 – October 31, 2010, 12:47:30 pm

Well I have at least two cents worth. I watched and participated in numerous buyouts and mergers. The biggest problem I saw was that the new owners forgot the essence of the company's they purchased. A company's essence can not be seen in the numbers the accountants analyze. Sometimes the essence is the personality of the person that built the company and sometimes it is a transferable trait or attitude. Recognizing the essence of a company is intuitive and essential to success. Inability to consider anything but numbers (greed) is why, although its not publicized, I believe part of this recession is due to many of the acquisitions and mergers of the 90's. See it really is Clinton's fault. (oops! politics, scratch that)

I could go in to dozens of examples but we may be seeing this very phenomena at Foretravel. The new owners probably convinced themselves that Newell was a good business model to help recession proof the company since the people that buy Newels are usually not affected by the vagary's of the general economy. All the company management can see is the mistakes that were made by the previous management of Foretravel. They don't recognize that what they really need to do is figure out how to better market the essence of Foretravel that made it the great producer of motorhomes it was in the past.

In my humble opinion, the safety, durability, longevity, reliability, quality and customer concern were what made Foretravel the best in the business. They lacked a little flash aesthetically, but why not build on the great foundation that was Foretravel instead of trying to turn it into a Newell. Each company serves a niche but the traditional Foretravel way opens the door to a much larger market if they add a little pizazz to the aesthetics and stay with the basics. People that buy Newells and Busses buy them because they are the most expensive which makes ownership exclusive. At their price point, building a coach priced 10 or 20 percent cheaper won't draw many of those ultra high end customers away. Go ahead and build a Newell type coach if you must but don't abandon the one what brung ya to the party.

Foretravel Management, we love our brand. Don't screw it up.

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #13 – October 31, 2010, 12:59:00 pm

Kent, you're right-on. Does anyone remember that Foretravel was probably the last one to the party when adding the room slides? The old management never rushed to add the latest "stuff" until the engineering was tested & proven. (In the case of slides, it remains a work-in-progress...sadly).

It seems that each model year something major is being added/changed. It appears there's a hunt for something evasive in the coach lineup?

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #14 – October 31, 2010, 04:47:44 pm

My 2 cent's, after talking to Jame's at Xtreme, he and Ray Fore talked abut changes in the Foretravel coach lineup, Jame's thought was to keep the U270 as the entry level coach, do away with the U295, keep the U 320 as the first upgrade and buy Prevost shells for the upgrade from the U320, sounds like it wood have been a workable plan,can you imagine a Foretravel Prevost.
Bill Willett

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #15 – October 31, 2010, 05:44:48 pm

Quote from: Bill Willett – October 31, 2010, 04:47:44 pm

My 2 cent's, after talking to Jame's at Xtreme, he and Ray Fore talked abut changes in the Foretravel coach lineup, Jame's thought was to keep the U270 as the entry level coach, do away with the U295, keep the U 320 as the first upgrade and buy Prevost shells for the upgrade from the U320, sounds like it wood have been a workable plan,can you imagine a Foretravel Prevost.
Bill Willett

Bill,
That just makes too much sense! The new management, if intent on changing model designation, could have renamed the U270 "Nimbus", and the U320 "Phenix". The Prevost conversion could have been named...(you pick the best name).

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #16 – October 31, 2010, 06:55:33 pm

Wow, a Prevost/Foretravel. That sounds like the ultimate. Foretravel, are you listening?

You might consider an owners council including three or four of the Foretravel Old Timers and say six of the new model Foretravel owners. The perspectives you would get might surprise you. You can only learn by listening.

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #17 – October 31, 2010, 07:08:49 pm

Quote from: Bill Willett – October 31, 2010, 04:47:44 pm

My 2 cent's, after talking to Jame's at Xtreme, he and Ray Fore talked abut changes in the Foretravel coach lineup, Jame's thought was to keep the U270 as the entry level coach, do away with the U295, keep the U 320 as the first upgrade and buy Prevost shells for the upgrade from the U320, sounds like it wood have been a workable plan,can you imagine a Foretravel Prevost.
Bill Willett

That is something I would buy in a heart beat.

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #18 – October 31, 2010, 07:16:24 pm

They actaully did four 35' conversions in the 80's. One was recently for sale at philcooper.com

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #19 – October 31, 2010, 08:28:54 pm

Ray Fore did 3 or 4 Prevost conversions in the late 80s. I saw a 40 footer for sale a couple of years ago. Looked like a Prevost on the outside and a Foretravel on the inside...

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #20 – October 31, 2010, 08:30:24 pm

Tim was right - it was a 35!

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #21 – October 31, 2010, 08:30:43 pm

Quote

Bill,
That just makes too much sense! The new management, if intent on changing model designation, could have renamed the U270 "Nimbus", and the U320 "Phenix". The Prevost conversion could have been named...(you pick the best name).

I would have to call it a "LIBERTY COACH"

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #22 – October 31, 2010, 08:34:14 pm

Quote

Quote from: Gerry Vicha – October 31, 2010, 08:30:43 pm
Bill,
That just makes too much sense! The new management, if intent on changing model designation, could have renamed the U270 "Nimbus", and the U320 "Phenix". The Prevost conversion could have been named...(you pick the best name).

I would have to call it a "LIBERTY COACH"

Gerry,
Oops, it's already taken...

http://www.libertycoach.com/home.asp

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #23 – October 31, 2010, 08:49:09 pm

They could call it the "Pinnacle"

Geez. I better register that ASAP. That's a pretty good name

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #24 – October 31, 2010, 08:58:37 pm

I played pinochle once. Isn't it like cribbage?

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