Upcoming FT model

Topic: Upcoming FT model (Read 4161 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #50 – November 04, 2010, 11:18:24 pm

I really like U270, U295, U320, etc. They are easy to spell, easy to say, and descriptive of some kind of hierarchy of features. However, they may too plain to sell anything in the current world of hyperbole. (Hmm, Hyperbole ... ??)

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #51 – November 05, 2010, 06:08:50 am

dave head , i think you have this thing pegged right between the eyes . ! anything else will make it have a short life in this very narrow market . i also know the new ownership guys are sharp as tacks so we can feel good about this up swing model . it will help the whole line up , and drag used units up with it .there has been some long and heavy thinking gone into this move , i expect only the pest .

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #52 – November 10, 2010, 09:02:38 pm

Kent Speers hit the nail squarely on the head a week or so ago. A company has a heart and soul. Too often that is lost when a company is sold.

The Foretravel (company) of today bears little resemblance to the company when CM ran it. Neither do the coaches. I have wished MANY times I had kept my 2000 U320 and put $30,000 into updating it, rather than buying the 07 Nimbus I have today. Same comments can be applied to the Motorcade Club and to the service facility.

Regards to all,
John Lang

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #53 – November 11, 2010, 11:21:35 am

John I don't agree with you, regarding the New vs. the Old owners. If Lyle didn't step in the company would have closed down within a few weeks at most. They had no more money and were building coaches with parts from the parts dept because they could not get new parts from vendors because of lack of payment. Did they change things? Yes. Do I agree with all the changes? No. Its their money and the continuous infusion by Mr. Miller has let them stay in business. Assuming things actually change in the near future they should be all right. The message should be that we as owner users offer advice and true feedback that they can take seriously or simply ignore, its their decision. I have had four Foretravels in 8 years. Each time the newer unit surpassed my expectations of the old. My 2008 by far is the best in quality and performance. just my opinion. Elliot

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #54 – November 11, 2010, 03:41:08 pm

I have owned a small company and met a payroll for 16 years. Let me tell you that the possibility of going out of business because of a lack of sales was absolutely terrifying. But when times got tough, unpopular decisions had to be made. I really don't know the real story of what went on at the factory when the new owners took over, but it is their money and their company and they had to put the legacy aside and do what they thought was in the best interests of those whose money was at risk. Some of us may not agree with the decision they made and don't like to see changes that appear to reduce the quality we know. But it is their money and their company.

It's also a free country because of what has been so dearly given by so many veterans, and because of that we get to say what we think. It is also so great that this site is not owned by a company that might edit comments.

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #55 – November 11, 2010, 03:57:38 pm

I don't know what year the body change was made to seamless automotive front/end caps, but when I purchased the 97 U270 in May 2003, there were two new coaches in for rework of this area. I figure this warranty item cost quite a bit to make right. I'm sure adjustments were made in manufacturing to fix this problem "prontissimo".

I think the changes in model designation and appearance are more modern. I still wish there was room in the lineup for a U270 type level coach with slides optional so as to keep the prices down.

As to the quality of the new coaches...only time will tell. Obviously, John is not real happy. And, yes; I agree that with a Foretravel, it pays to invest in upgrades/renovations as the investment needed to upgrade to a newer coach...to me...does not make sense when the frame & coach works are of such high quality.

FWIW

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #56 – November 11, 2010, 04:09:49 pm

On the topic of lower cost U-270 like coaches, it would be problematic for Foretravel to produce them with reasonable gross margins to the bottom line at the drastically reduced unit volume going through the factory. The running gear and systems cast is probably similar to the Phenix from a COGS standpoint, and while some $$ are saved with leaving out or making optional certain items, the low end models are probably marginally profitable after allocation of overhead. (Recalling that while overhead has shrunk, the number of units has fallen precipitously, I suspect that there is a greater overhead allocation per unit today than when the product was north of 150 units per year.)

This is probably why Foretravel is looking to go up-market from the Phenix towards the bus conversion market, rather down market to something below the Nimbus. The unit volume is small but with the high price tag the gross margin contribution per unit can better meet the profit requirements per unit to make the business model valid.

Two logical things accrue from this phenomenon. Our older coaches will probably have a slower rate of depreciation than if the factory was still pumping out 200 coaches per year, and therefore it will make better economic sense to do the upgrades you want to the 2000 - 2004 coaches, since the upgrades will still represent a reasonable % of the Actual Cash Value of the coach.

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #57 – November 11, 2010, 04:18:47 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – November 11, 2010, 04:09:49 pm

On the topic of lower cost U-270 like coaches, it would be problematic for Foretravel to produce them with reasonable gross margins to the bottom line at the drastically reduced unit volume going through the factory. The running gear and systems cast is probably similar to the Phenix from a COGS standpoint, and while some $$ are saved with leaving out or making optional certain items, the low end models are probably marginally profitable after allocation of overhead. (Recalling that while overhead has shrunk, the number of units has fallen precipitously, I suspect that there is a greater overhead allocation per unit today than when the product was north of 150 units per year.)

Tim,
I think that a lighter coach will not need the super high output drive trains the 42/45 ft coaches with huge GVWR require...that's real money. Also, in my view, a business the size of FOT, once the break-even point is met, any additional volume of sales at any profit, will add to the bottom line as well as adding jobs to the community, etc.

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #58 – November 11, 2010, 04:40:41 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – November 11, 2010, 04:09:49 pm

On the topic of lower cost U-270 like coaches, it would be problematic for Foretravel to produce them with reasonable gross margins to the bottom line at the drastically reduced unit volume going through the factory.

Particularly when development costs need to be factored in.

On our factory tour last month, we learned the Nimbus line was going to experience floor plan changes as a result of new engines and new cooling packages from Cummins. They didn't even know yet what the cooling was going to look like. That engineering cost has to be spread across the number of coaches being sold. For a low margin, low volume model it would be difficult to make the numbers work within the market price target.

-M

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #59 – November 11, 2010, 04:49:00 pm

Michelle -

That was pretty much the conversation I had with Greg Amys at Texas Motor Speedway this weekend. On a positive note, they are feeling much better about their business model even at the current lower volumes. And yes, they do like to build and sell Nimbus's, as they do produce profit and absorb overhead allocation, but I didn't hear a lot of enthusiasm for going down market from the Nimbus.

Tim

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #60 – November 11, 2010, 05:24:15 pm

I'm surprised that they have to do much redesign. When I saw the first year Nimbus/Phenix, the 'bay' in the Nimbus was the same size as the Phenix, and the ISM looked like a 2 liter four banger in comparison to the ISX. It was like the difference between a 225 slant 6 and a 426 Hemi...

I believe they want to position themselves as a spread below and above Newell. I can see no reason to go down market. Thor, Newmar, Winnebago etc are all champing at the bit to expend production. Maintain the exclusivity. The money they make off a custom coach has to be huge...

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #61 – November 12, 2010, 08:47:42 pm

I noticed the new Foretravel is going to be called IH-45 according to the web site. I didnt see where anyone posted that. Not sure. Just FYI...

Regards , Mark

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #62 – November 12, 2010, 08:55:23 pm

Good spotting, Mark!

Here's the announcement from Foretravel's website

http://www.foretravel.com/inc/view-news.php?id=30

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #63 – November 12, 2010, 09:00:55 pm

International Harvester??? Oh, the horror! I spent some serious times partying in a Travelall. We called it the flying nun!

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #64 – November 12, 2010, 09:05:53 pm

Interesting. I look forward to seeing photos after it is officially unveiled.

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #65 – November 14, 2010, 06:31:34 am

---------ok gamblers , looks like my 10 buck bet is the winner ! time to pay up !! oops no takers , well sometime you just can't get it done . IH-45 it will get it. our great FT co is on the move . that helps keep the value of our older coaches in a good light . look at the SOB gang and what happened to them . makes me feel good all over .i'll lave a look . my 06 is fine but 2012 is [ mo-betta ] !! maybe a change at the white house will cap this thing off a big winner.!

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #66 – November 15, 2010, 11:42:25 am

The IH45 sounds very interesting, out of my budget, however I will be back in Nac in early Dec to retrieve the 01 320 at Xtreme. SO hopefully will be able to get a sneak look at it, maybe a pix or two.

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #67 – November 15, 2010, 11:53:54 am

Sounds great, Dave! We weren't allowed to take any photos in October, since it hadn't been unveiled yet (having worked in R&D, we both completely understood this). Hopefully your Nac visit will coincide with the factory reveal so you can get photos of the finished product.

Michelle

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #68 – November 15, 2010, 12:48:12 pm

Steve, Seems I read somewhere that it will be on display at FT in Dec then on to The Fl show later in month, so hoping to get a shot or two while at Nac. I expect a Newell attack without the axle weight problem known to be an issue with Newell (Hopefully not an issue with FT).

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #69 – November 15, 2010, 05:55:41 pm

Since the fl show is in early to mid Jan I don't see it leaving until new years at least.

Re: Upcoming FT model

Reply #70 – November 15, 2010, 06:26:32 pm

Quote from: Dave M – November 15, 2010, 12:48:12 pm

Steve, Seems I read somewhere that it will be on display at FT in Dec then on to The Fl show later in month, so hoping to get a shot or two while at Nac.

It's in the announcement -

The first IH-45 will be previewed at a factory reception in Nacogdoches, Texas, December, 2010. It will be officially debuted at the Florida RV SuperShow in Tampa, January 11-16, 2011.

I'm thinking a shot or two just won't do - take the camcorder and get us a YouTube video walk-around tour. What we saw a month ago had a definite residential feel, even as a work in progress.

Interesting that the announcement mentions 40 and 42 foot also being available. Wonder if they will be the IH-40 and IH-42. IH for Interior (or Increased) Height?

Googling the exterior design team mentioned in the release announcement, Eleven LLC (www.eleven.net) is a Boston firm that appears to be an Industrial Design company (at least, that's what I think I'm getting from their website, it's rather, errr..., artsy); Motive Industries (www.motiveind.com) is an Alberta, Canada vehicle development firm.

Quote from: Dave M – November 15, 2010, 12:48:12 pm

I expect a Newell attack without the axle weight problem known to be an issue with Newell

Tyle mentioned they put a strong emphasis on weight, CG, and CCC for this new coach for usability and handling.

Michelle

I H -45

Reply #71 – November 15, 2010, 06:28:50 pm

just had a chat with Curtis at FOT ,i ask him what does the I H stand for ? he said "it will be anounced at our meeting " i'am chomping at the bit to know . the big meeting is 11-16-2010 am. i'll post it soon asi find out .!!

Re: I H -45

Reply #72 – November 15, 2010, 06:46:30 pm

George S . i've been sending my little spy out at night . you know , the little green guy ,the one thats only 10 inches tall . well he reported back about the new I H -45 . said it has two and a half baths , a small hanger , a nice boat dock , other than that its a plain jane that will get up and haul ----- .yep . i'am dying to see it .

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