Recommended Battery Charger ?

Topic: Recommended Battery Charger ? (Read 2371 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #25 – November 24, 2010, 09:20:14 am

Don't know. But Lifeline AGMs are installed in US Airforce aircraft - which may not always be above freezing
___

best, paul
"Thriving not surviving" <(*¿*)>
"the real voyage of discovery consists not in seeing new places but in seeing with new eyes"
Anon

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #26 – November 24, 2010, 10:57:31 am

In a partially discharged state, the electrolyte in a lead acid battery may freeze. At a 40% state of charge, electrolyte will freeze if the temperature reaches approximately 16.0°F. The freezing temperature of the electrolyte in a fully charged battery is -92.0°F.

So yes, its possible. If you keep a charge on, the heat generated will keep it from freezing.

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #27 – November 24, 2010, 11:18:47 am

Dave, reason I asked about the freezing on AGM & Gel batteries is that in my experience in Cincinnati (lows approx 0 F for no more than a week) I've disconnected the batteries & left then in the covered storage (but subject to the ambient temp) from November to April w/o any effective degradation.

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #28 – November 24, 2010, 04:57:38 pm

The more I read about keeping batteries charged, the more confused I become. I suspect part of the problem is what appears to be a wide variation of battery types, inverter types, coach models, coach years. Brett refers to "older models", but what is "older"? Does my 96 270 have phantom loads on the coach batteries? If no, then why do I have to worry about them. I have numerous vehicles that sit all winter and are still fine when it's time to start them. And with the coach plugged in, I'd guess the same would apply, I should be able to shut off the inverter and not worry about them, again assuming that I'm not using any of the 12 volt stuff. But why shut off the inverter, apparently it should be "smart" enough to maintain the batteries without my overseeing it. They (Foretravel/inverter manu.) stuck the switches on the back of the control panel so I wouldn't be messing with them. I would assume that it came from the factory with the proper settings, especially after 15 years.

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #29 – November 24, 2010, 05:17:31 pm

Gayland,

Yes, your coach DOES have phantom loads on the 12 VDC system-- things like engine and transmission computers, radio memory, etc.

And I would sure not assume that the dip switches were set properly and if they were set properly 15 years ago that there has not been a change in the batteries since that time.

Things that could have changed since it came out of the factory what would require a reprogramming of the inverter/charger:

Change in battery technology (wet cell, gel, AGM), change in size of battery bank (more/less amp-hrs), and clearly one that needs programming is ambient temperature. If it was properly programmed at the factory in Nacogdoches in the summer and you are sitting in Denver right now, it is NOT programmed as it should be. That doesn't mean you can't "get by" without having the programming correct, but this really isn't that difficult and can maximize battery life.

What does your inverter/charger owners manual suggest when it comes to programming/setting the dip switches?

Brett Wolfe

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #30 – November 24, 2010, 07:53:01 pm

Verify that the charger is a modern smart charger rather than the on or off type that came stock on my 92 U240. I almost destroyed two new AGM batteries by leaving it on shorepower for just two days per month (one day boost off one day boost on). I replaced the converter/charger (don't have an inverter) with the three stage type (Progressive Dynamics) that goes into trickle mode and added the aforementioned Trik-L-Start and it works like a charm. My house battery is on the converter/charger and the chassis battery leaches off of it through the Trik-L-Start.

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #31 – November 24, 2010, 08:37:06 pm

Thanks Brett, I suspected there were phantom loads, I was having transmission problems when I had the bad battery (the cateye thing). I also have a bad house battery, so will be getting two new ones next spring, thus I'm trying to learn all I can about what to get and how to care for them. So far I haven't found a book on the inverter, but haven't found all the secret rooms yet.

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #32 – November 24, 2010, 08:41:56 pm

Gayland,

Get your Xantrex manual here: http://www.xantrex.com/power-products-support/document-downloads/product-type/inverter-chargers.aspx

Brett Wolfe

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #33 – November 24, 2010, 09:41:45 pm

....and so now...after starting this post and thinking my question was simple and I would be ready to do??? to take care of me batteries....sad to say, I have absolutely no idea what to do with all I've read. Honestly, comlete blank!! It's no ones fault but my own, but I just don't knowwat to do except plug in full time and burn up the batteries or leave them alone and freeze. I sure wish this was not such a frustrating thing. So anyway, I've read and read and read again and now am going to bed with a headache and still no understanding of what I should do.

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #34 – November 24, 2010, 10:09:35 pm

Quote from: Carl Sandel – November 24, 2010, 09:41:45 pm

after starting this post and thinking my question was simple and I would be ready to do??? to take care of me batteries....sad to say, I have absolutely no idea what to do with all I've read. Honestly, comlete blank!! It's no ones fault but my own, but I just don't knowwat to do except plug in full time and burn up the batteries or leave them alone and freeze. I sure wish this was not such a frustrating thing. So anyway, I've read and read and read again and now am going to bed with a headache and still no understanding of what I should do.

Carl,
No need to be confused.
The simplest solution is to install a trik-l-start.
It takes 5 minutes to an easy install.
Now when you are plugged into shore power, both sets of batteries will be safely charged.
Your on board charger will charge your house batteries and the trik-l-start will trickle charge your engine battery safely.

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #35 – November 24, 2010, 10:15:53 pm

Carl,
You know we're not going to leave you hanging/confused. You're almost there. All the information you need is contained in the model Inverter/charger the unit has installed (it may very well be the OEM unit).

Once you know the model inverter charger, if you don't have the manual, one is available online (I can help yu locate it, if need be). Reason you need this info is to set the inverter/charger to operate most efficiently during the cold winter months. We'll also know if the inverter/charger is capable of float charge levels, and not just a single rate of charge all the time without intelligence to shut the system off before it fries the batteries. You need to know this information. Unless the previous ownerr changed the originaal unit, the OEM inverter/charger is an "intelligent" unit as the GV 280 is a top of the line model usually with high end components installed.

Please keep us posted on your progress...we'll be listening.

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #36 – November 24, 2010, 11:42:37 pm

Quote

Barry's quote: "No need to be confused. The simplest solution is to install a trik-l-start."

Carl,

Barry is completely correct! Just order a Trik-L-Start (business is in San Antonio, TX) and it will take care of your issues. I've had mine for several years, with the coach plugged in sometimes for 6 months at a time. Engine starts right up. I also bought the Toad-Charge to keep the towed vehicle's battery charged while towing and operating the 12V Brake Buddy and it works well (a separate issue from your concerns).

I connected mine to the house and engine battery cables that go to the boost solenoid, instead of to the isolator. Either way works.

If you get one (Triik-L-Start) email me and I'll send pics of the wiring arrangement to the boost solenoid.

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #37 – November 25, 2010, 12:06:26 am

You would have no issue in those conditions as long as the battery was fully charged to begin with at the time of storage.

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #38 – November 25, 2010, 08:27:15 am

Two separate issues are being addressed here-- that may be adding to the confusion:

1. Verify that chassis as well as house battery is being charged. If not, get a battery combiner such as Trik l start. Once your inverter/charger has the house batteries up to the preset voltage, the inverter/charger will charge the chassis battery as well. Doesn't matter if the either banks starts out fully charged or discharged when you plug in. Within a few hours, voltage will be high enough in the house bank to allow the combiner to charge the chassis battery as well.

2. Verify that the inverter/charger is properly programmed. Your inverter owners manual makes this very easy. If you don't have one, I posted a link to download the manuals in my post above.

It is really that simple.

Brett

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #39 – November 25, 2010, 08:45:43 am

I guess it's time for me to ask about the down-side of maintaining a charge on the chassis batteries using the boost-function? That's all we've ever done and it seems to work just fine, but ......... ?

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #40 – November 25, 2010, 08:54:24 am

I have had no problems with batteries on my 95 U280. My procedure is to plug in in storage and let inverter,converter ( Heart 2500 ) take care of house batteries, no problems in 7 years. The day that we plan to leave ( even after 3 months or so ), I engage the boost switch for 4 to 5 hours, then start with boost switch engaged. After start, turn boost off. My chassis batteries ( 2 Red Tops Optimas ) will keep a charge for months.

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #41 – November 25, 2010, 09:42:00 am

Quote from: Chad and Judy – November 25, 2010, 08:45:43 am

I guess it's time for me to ask about the down-side of maintaining a charge on the chassis batteries using the boost-function? That's all we've ever done and it seems to work just fine, but ......... ?

Chad,

Good question.

The boost switch powers (i.e. takes power) a solenoid that "combines" the batteries. So, if shore power ever went off, you have an additional electrical load. These solenoids also have a reasonably high failure rate-- at least in the year models around ours. And, other than a dead chassis battery, there is no warning that the solenoid has failed (i.e. the dash switch light is still on, but no battery combining).

With a battery combiner, the chassis battery only gets charged when the house battery bank is up to a specified voltage. So, though it is "stealing power" from the house battery, the inverter/charger or converter is well able to supply both.

If you don't want to spend the money for a combiner, while in storage, you can CAREFULLY jump from positive of house battery to positive of chassis battery (if in the same compartment). You could also do this at the battery combine/boost solenoid. Be sure to use heavy gauge wire and fuse BOTH ends, as both ends will be hot. I say carefully because touching any piece of metal with the jumper will give a dead short. Fusing both ends protects against this. I would not drive with a jumper wire in place-- too easy to "jump off".

I guess the bottom line is that you can leave the boost on, but there are better ways to keep the chassis battery charged.

Brett

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #42 – November 25, 2010, 10:08:10 am

Carl,

I installed a Trik-L-Start by myself. If I can do it, anyone can do it. You can order it on line and have it in about a week or less. I don't recall the cost, but it was something around $29.

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #43 – November 25, 2010, 10:27:59 am

Quote from: George Stoltz – November 25, 2010, 10:08:10 am

Carl,

I installed a Trik-L-Start by myself. If I can do it, anyone can do it. You can order it on line and have it in about a week or less. I don't recall the cost, but it was something around $29.

Actually a little more than that $49 plus $5 shipping.

http://www.lslproducts.com/TLSPage.html

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #44 – November 25, 2010, 10:33:21 am

Two comments on all the above,
1-No such thing as Phantom loads, there are Parasitic loads from many things, as mentioned computers, clocks, memory on many things such as the HWH Leveling system, Inverter has an idling current if turned on, battery sensing on the BCM-12. Hell there is o end to the parasitic loads.
As for Phantom loads, I though Phantom was an unknown, in this case it is a known.

2-Battery charging, wow no end to all the ideas of the ultimate solution. For me and with 20 yrs of playing the game, I find having a separate charger for the chassis battery system simplifies the entire issue. You are not becoming confused as to which battery string is the problem and you have a stand alone system making all trouble shooting very easy. Leaves the boost for when you need it and not burning out the lil red lite nor burning up the coil on the solenoid.
Also do not for get the little dome lite that kills your car battery in a few hours, parsitic drain or phantom.
Maybe some one can tell me the disadvantage of a separate charger for the chassis ?

FWIW as usual or my take on making it simple.

As usual FWIW

Edit
Oh Heck, I forgot a few real big issues for having a separate chassis charger, if you are having a problem with your house batteries and the big charger, it is possible your engine will ot start either. It is nice to atleast be able to start up and drive away for help.

ALso do not forget the air compressor that runs from the batteries (I think) thru the inverter or are they 12VDC, have not looked at the wiring diagram for that issue, just a thought.

I can not see any good reason to have the famed "Trickle-Start" looks like a additional problem area to confuse the issue.
FWIW

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #45 – November 25, 2010, 10:56:24 am

Quote from: Chad and Judy – November 25, 2010, 08:45:43 am

I guess it's time for me to ask about the down-side of maintaining a charge on the chassis batteries using the boost-function? That's all we've ever done and it seems to work just fine, but ......... ?

Your RV or House batteries are connected to the charger/inverter when you are plugged into 'shore' power, but your engine or chassis batteries are not!
Most charger/inverters are programmed to properly charge deep-cycle batteries, NOT starting batteries.

Many coach builders do not wire the engine batteries into the charger/inverter for 'shore' power charging, rather relying on the engine alternator to charge them while driving.
They have differing reasons for not hooking the batteries together so they can be charged together...most notably the fact that the two different batteries are different type batteries for different jobs.

The RV or 'House' batteries are deep-cycle 'marine' type batteries designed to be deeply discharged (boon docking) with carefully controlled recharging cycles with voltages around 14.2 - 14.4V (different than auto batteries). They can be deep cycled & recharged several hundred times depending on several factors.

The Engine/Chassis batteries are auto type batteries for large starting currents and quick recharges.
Diesel engines usually have two 'auto' batteries of the same type to provide large starting currents and longer cranking times.

During charging, the shore powered inverter/charger is set for charging RV deep cycle batteries at around 14.2 - 14.4V while the engine batteries need a higher voltage around 14.8V to be properly charged.

Besides needing different charging voltages, cycles, steps, etc. the different types and brands of batteries have different plate construction and therefore different internal plate resistance...this causes parasitic current drain between different type batteries when hooked together.

So, if you left them connected with the Boost Switch with no shore power, the batteries would 'drain' from one set to the next, depending on which set had the lower internal plate resistance.

Trik-l-start or echo charger or similar device will prevent that.

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #46 – November 25, 2010, 11:26:12 am

Thanks; have considered a trickle-charger, but in 5+ years we've had no issues using boost when in "stored" mode.

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #47 – November 25, 2010, 11:32:07 am

Hi Barry, If you are responding to my post, I see you missed my point 100%.

I sure have not suggested that Foretravels had a already wired in charger to the chassis , I made the mistake of assuming people would understand that by adding a seperate and proper charger to the chassis, they would eliminate all the fuss and hassels.
Sorry to not fully described the point And hell yes, if peopple love adding the famed trickle start, I surely agree it is their choice to go down any road they like.

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #48 – November 25, 2010, 11:38:16 am

Quote

Hi Barry, If you are responding to my post, I see you missed my point 100%.

I was actually responding to Chads message that I quoted.
He asked a question about the boost switch.
"I guess it's time for me to ask about the down-side of maintaining a charge on the chassis batteries using the boost-function?

Re: Recommended Battery Charger ?

Reply #49 – November 25, 2010, 02:00:56 pm

Yeah. I have a bad memory for numbers. That way I don't have to remind myself what we paid for our Foretravel.

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