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Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

November 24, 2010, 07:38:23 pm

Many of you may remember my anomaly where I frequently would have the ATS trip when trying to load up the generator.  I replaced the automatic transfer switch and had the generator checked out at ONAN (it is the Emerald Plus propane pancake generator) three times prior to my cross country trip last summer.  I ended up replacing my A/C units to new Coleman power savers (which helped).  Since then I have cranked up the generator and put a load on it for about twenty minutes every month.  Today it wouldn't start.  After trying and trying I can smell propane.  I also noticed the AUDIX screeen blacking out when trying to start it.  I had just changed the oil and filter prior to the trip.  I've seen no leaks but was surprised to find that there was barely any oil on the little dipstick.  It took 2 quarts but still wouldn't start.  I removed the plug wire and positioned it close and tried to start it and I don't seem to be getting a spark and it sounds as if that is the case.  I keep the unit on shore power so the smart charger and Trik-L-Start can keep my batteries optimal.  The past three months, the electric bill where I keep it has been almost $100 where it usually is $15 ir $20.  I do keep the fridge on and I also noticed that the block heater has been on (how it got on I haven't a clue).  I doubt the fridge and block heater can run the bill up that much.  I am thinking that I have an electrical short somewhere related to the generator.  Any ideas on what to look at first? 

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Re: generator again

Reply #1 – November 24, 2010, 07:53:11 pm

A couple comments on your issues
1-I think maybe the battery system is very weak if the Audix screen gos dark when trying to start the generator, the generator has to spin up, not just barely roll over.  secondly, running the generator until
it needs two quarts of oil is begging to spend money, you might want to keep a closer eye on the oil level.

2-Running the block heater will cost  a fair amount of money as it is a 1500 watt 120 volt and it has no thermostat nor timer, so it is drawing 1500 watts 24/7 and the refrig is a minor draw compaired to the block heater.

3-Try a battery that will hold 10 volts while cranking the generator, the chance of it starting is much better as the speed of rotation is important,  just dragging it over is tuff to start and expensive.

4-Onan does not have Pancake generators.

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Re: Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

Reply #2 – November 24, 2010, 10:02:22 pm

It very well could be something electrical but there also could be a blockage in the propane regulator vent tube. The black rubber tube comes out of the flat circular metal piece on the lower right hand side of the genie compartment and goes through the floor. Take it off, run a wire through it and/or blow it out. It could be that simple. 

Regrettably this information comes from experience, twice.

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Re: Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

Reply #3 – November 24, 2010, 10:32:11 pm

Thanks.  I'll try it.  I thought this was the type called a pancake generator.  Learn something new everyday.  The generator always started very easily.  I suspected low battery but verified close to 13 volts on each (with charger off).  However one was stronger than the other.  I need to relook at the batteries.

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Re: Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

Reply #4 – November 25, 2010, 01:27:14 am

Agree with Kent, mud daubers have always caused havoc on gas systems (Not gasoline) and other point, what is the battery voltage during cranking, if the monitor is going dark the battery voltage surely is not 13 volts.  Sort of like saying the tire is only flat on the bottom.
Having a fair DVM and knowing what to do with it is real important for trouble shooting.

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Re: Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

Reply #5 – November 25, 2010, 09:34:41 am

It might help to use the boost to start the generator.

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Re: Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

Reply #6 – November 25, 2010, 07:54:15 pm

In my case when the monitor did not work the battery was below ten volts and would not start the generator.  Using the boost switch gave me enough juice to get the generator going.

Actually, when trying to get a transient voltage drop you might find an old analog meter might work better.  You are not looking for a specific voltage only a range.  If the battery has a huge drop then it is not fully charged or is bad.

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Re: Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

Reply #7 – November 26, 2010, 12:03:03 am

Won't start with boost on either.  The main engine fired right up though.  I would think that if the engine will crank so should the generator.  I still suspect something is haywire involving the generator.  I am going to check that propane supply is not interrupted.  I am getting a very strong smell of propane when trying to start it...more so that I think should be expected.

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Re: Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

Reply #8 – November 26, 2010, 09:20:00 am

Dwayne,

Separate the two issues:

1.  Electrical-- is the generator turning over at normal speed?  If so, rule out battery or cable issues?

2.  Fuel issues-- IF the generator is turning over at normal speed but not starting, then suspect either a propane supply issue or spark issue.

Brett

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Re: Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

Reply #9 – November 26, 2010, 09:54:06 pm

Dwayne,
A strong smell of propane would indicate to me that the spark plug was not firing, assuming that the propane smell ONLY occurs when you are trying to start the generator. 

Brett, a little help here, please: can you test the spark plug like you do in a gasoline engine without causing an explosion from the unburned propane?  The test I am talking about is to remove the spark plug, reattach it to the spark plug wire, ground the outside of the plug, crank the engine an check for a spark.

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Re: Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

Reply #10 – November 26, 2010, 10:09:03 pm

I don't think testing the spark plug "the old way" would be dangerous unless there is a propane leak outside of the engine cylinder, like around the carb, the regulator or the propane hose. I always like to use an enclosed system spark tester. The are under $15 are easy to hook up and don't create an explosion hazard.

When my vent hose was blocked, I smelled propane when trying to start the engine. I think a clogged vent hose may cause the regulator to issue too much propane thereby flooding the engine. I'm not an expert so I could be wrong, proceed with caution.

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Re: Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

Reply #11 – November 27, 2010, 12:03:44 am

Actually, the 'old way' is holding it in your hand... Exciting, but you know for certain if you are getting a good spark.

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Re: Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

Reply #12 – November 27, 2010, 09:28:41 am

Yes Dave, I always got a charge out of that method, but it still don't mean the spark at the end of the plug will start the engine. Remember, we is sofistikated folks that drive a 4travel. We use closed system checks for safety.

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Re: Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

Reply #13 – November 27, 2010, 09:09:21 pm

Kent,

I guess I haven't kept up with some of the automotive test equipment.  What does the enclosed system tester look like?  Is it simply a spark gap in series with the plug?

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Re: Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

Reply #14 – November 27, 2010, 10:11:21 pm

Yup, that's it but I tried to sound really smart and technical to keep up with the engineers.

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Re: Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

Reply #15 – November 28, 2010, 09:50:07 am

Spark tester

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Re: Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

Reply #16 – November 29, 2010, 09:37:10 pm

Bought something similar: no spark.

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Re: Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

Reply #17 – April 18, 2011, 02:27:22 pm

Just to complete this thread (as posted in the tech section):

Turned out to be a bad ignition coil.  That, plus oil and filter was $413 at Cummins. 

Many may remember my weird electrical problem involving the generator that plagued me for a year.  Whenever I tried to bring the second A/C on line under generator power, the ATS would kick open and I'd have to shut everything down before the delay expired and it would try to close again.  Of course, it I didn't turn off all the load, it would chatter very bad when the power came back and disengage again. I replaced the transfer switch with no improvement.  I had Cummins check the generator twice and each time it checked out.  Prior to my trip out west last summer I replaced the A/C units as I discovered that they were pulling a lot more juice on compressor start than spec indicated but they were 18 years old. The problem resolved somewhat, never kicking out the ATS on 1 A/C and only occassionally on both.  Anyway...moral of the story: new ignition coil on generator and the generator doesn't even seem to notice when I crank up the A/C or both A/C units.  Clearly the weird behavior of the generator had something to do with the ignition coil.  I  don't have a clue as to why.

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Re: Emerald Plus propane pancake generator won't start

Reply #18 – April 18, 2011, 07:13:06 pm

Excellent report. Knowing about anomalies like this can save some of us hundreds of dollars in the future.

Who would have thunk it? 

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