Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

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Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

November 30, 2010, 10:17:25 am

:o I'm new here to the forum but a long time Foretravel Owner, My coach is a 1995 U-300 3176 Cat 4060hd transmission, I want to install the Transmission Retarder Joy Stick and Module on my coach, Does anyone have firsthand experience with the installation process? So far I have found that I need a Y cable part # p28173 (Foretravel part), the short lever switch part # 29521372 and the Resistance Module part # 29506474, Do I need anything else?

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #1 – November 30, 2010, 10:32:32 am

Quote from: Modern Day Jipzees – November 30, 2010, 10:17:25 am

:o I'm new here to the forum but a long time Foretravel Owner, My coach is a 1995 U-300 3176 Cat 4060hd transmission, I want to install the Transmission Retarder Joy Stick and Module on my coach, Does anyone have firsthand experience with the installation process? So far I have found that I need a Y cable part # p28173 (Foretravel part), the short lever switch part # 29521372 and the Resistance Module part # 29506474, Do I need anything else?

Here are some instructions from Barry Leavitt that might help.
http://beamalarm.com/Documents/installing_joy_stick_retarder_control.htm

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #2 – November 30, 2010, 10:48:39 am

Thank You for the info, But do you have any knowledge That the Allison part number I have listed are the ones used on Foretravel?

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #3 – November 30, 2010, 10:52:18 am

You might want to reach out to Dave Head from the forum with a private message -he is well versed in this change - he actually had the parts bought for his 1995, then found out it had a Jake Brake, not the retarder. That being said - he knows his stuff on this topic.

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #4 – November 30, 2010, 10:58:14 am

Do you know for certain you have the HD4060R (4060 with the retarder option)? If you have a 'jake brake' you don't have it. For instance my 95 U320 has the M11 engine with the HD4060 - but no retarder... A jake was standard in 95 and the trans retarder was a $10K option. James Triana can look up your coach and tell you what it was ordered with. You can also check the data plate on the side of the trans.

As Barry showed in the instructions, adding the joystick if you have the retarder is NOT difficult. Your 3 pressure switch system still works the same, also.

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #5 – November 30, 2010, 11:13:55 am

Many Thanks Dave,, Good call I have a switch on my consol that reads Retard so I assumed I had a transmission retarder, Well I don't, I made to call to Mark Harvey and he confirmed I have a Jake brake not a retarder...................Thanks To All For Your Responses.. Andrew

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #6 – November 30, 2010, 11:24:51 am

No sweat! Same thing happened to me - only I AND Motorhomes of Texas thought there was one. So I spent the money and once we found out I had a jake we agreed that they would buy the parts from me, and that they would not low ball me on the price should I ever trade it for another one. I would love to have the retarder, but I have to admit the jake does the job very well in the mountains.

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #7 – November 30, 2010, 11:29:14 am

The same thing happened to me too but thanks to the forum, I caught my mistake before losing any money.

I have had a Pac brake and now a Jake Brake and driven a coach with a retarder. The retarder is great but I am more confident in a Jake on steep grades since there is no heating issues with the transmission it and doesn't seem to put as much strain on the rear cap as a retarder can.

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #8 – November 30, 2010, 01:38:19 pm

O K Sometimes answers bring more questions, Does anyone know why when retarder button (Jake Brake) is engaged with no brake the coach is slowing, But when I touch the brake pedal I hear a fluttering noise similar to an exhaust brake noise and the coach seems to be slowing more, Is there a second stage to the Jake Brake with brake applied?

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #9 – November 30, 2010, 01:48:14 pm

Andrew, I don't know the answer for sure, but mine does the same thing. Mine does have a 2 stage Jake. The retarder button has two detents when you push it up. The first detent activates 3 cylinders the second activates all six cylinders for braking. I guess if it is activated by letting off of the accelerator and then two more stages with the brake applied, it might even be considered a three stage Jake. I believe most of the Jakes on trucks are three stage.

I am confident there are others on the forum that know a lot more than I do and I'm sure we will learn from them the "real details".

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #10 – November 30, 2010, 02:03:28 pm

The 95 model (at least mine) is 'wired' as a one speed. The 'speeds' are the actuation banks. There are two banks of three cylinders each. Mine actually has two switches that 'engage' the brake and send the signal to the transmission to downshift to 4th. The brake WILL NOT actuate until the throttle is closed. A three stage is 3 banks of two cylinders each. No matter what, there is no braking without the throttle being closed...

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #11 – November 30, 2010, 02:05:27 pm

Dave, does your activation switch have two stages or just off and on.

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #12 – November 30, 2010, 02:07:17 pm

Just on or OFF

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #13 – November 30, 2010, 02:09:19 pm

O K Assuming that the Jake Break has more than one stage, Does it seem reasonable that we could break that circuit at the brake pedal switch and install a manual switch to get full engine brake with ridding the BREAK?

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #14 – November 30, 2010, 02:21:58 pm

just one speed - I actually argued with James Triana about it, asking why it was wired this way. He didn't know and refused to offer advice on how to wire it correctly.
My wiring diagrams specifically show that its wired with two switches as a one speed.
That led to it being the last time we spoke.

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #15 – November 30, 2010, 02:23:06 pm

You shouldn't need to brake - turn it on and let off the throttle.

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #16 – November 30, 2010, 02:36:38 pm

Does your coach make the fluttering noise when you lightly touch the brakes with switch on? It's hard to heard but if your beside a hill or barrier of some kind it's very noticeable..

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #17 – November 30, 2010, 02:41:50 pm

Dave, I agree that it seems like I get more braking with the brake pedal depressed, but it may be that it just feels like more breaking as the transmission down shifts. Its my understanding that the higher the rpm the more breaking power the Jake has.

My coach makes more "Jake Break" noise with the switch pushed all the way up than it does in the first stage. The higher the rpm the louder the "flutter" noise and it seems to slow down faster

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #18 – November 30, 2010, 02:45:36 pm

Kent do you have a two stage switch on the consoul? Mine is just on or off

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #19 – November 30, 2010, 02:49:04 pm

Andrew, mine is a 93 Unihome not a Unicoach like yours so it has some systems that are different. My switch is on the left side of the steering wheel among all of the other rocker switches. When you press the button up it catches two times.

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #20 – November 30, 2010, 02:56:34 pm

I have to wonder if there is a way to get to that second stage on mine, my switch is in the same place but only one stage..

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #21 – November 30, 2010, 03:24:14 pm

That's how it works. It sounds like yours is wired properly.

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #22 – November 30, 2010, 03:26:29 pm

A CAT dealer can verify both stages are operating, and could redesign the wiring to provide a proper 2 stage control. Most truckers use a foot switch. It baffles me that RVs don't do it that way!

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #23 – November 30, 2010, 03:27:36 pm

yes - but it makes that noise whether I am applying the brakes or not if the jake is on..

Re: Retarder joy stick installation on 1995 U 300

Reply #24 – November 30, 2010, 04:55:07 pm

Wow that's weird mine is very clear when I touch the brakes it flutters.. I wonder if I can install a foot switch/peddle..

I really want to thank everybody for their input and help with this issue...

Andrew

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