Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

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Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

December 07, 2010, 04:17:37 pm

11/30/2010 - Had just started my return trip to Pa, from Lake Griffin State Park in Fruitland Park Florida, when there was an explosive blowout of the r/rear inside tire (failed in outboard sidewall). Force of the explosion destroyed the wheel well eyebrow liner and pulled part of the molding and body sidewall loose. FT installed 6 new Michelins prior to delivery of my coach in June of 2008 so tire was only 29 months old with 17K miles on it. Tires had been equipped with a Pressure Pro system since delivery and I monitor pressures before and during every trip. No debris in roadway or potholes / etc. prior to blowout. Fortunately little traffic on the road, a wide shoulder, and no handling problems allowed me to get coach (1995 U300) off the traveled portion of the roadway safely. Had tire changed out on site by "484 Tire" from Ocala (Ken Leggett @ 352-347-1881) and highly recommend him to anyone in need of roadside service in that area. Ken described the tire failure as a "sidewall zipper" and noted on his invoice that there were no indications of "impact or penetration" as a cause for failure. Balance of trip home was uneventful -but much colder than Florida

After arrival in Pa. contacted Michelin regarding warranty adjustment on damaged tire. Was told to take tire to local Michelin Truck Tire Service Center for inspection and assesment. 1st individual inspected tire and immediately reported that failure was due to "underinflation" - told him no way and he indicated that manager would have to inspect. Manager viewed tire and advised that failure was due to "penetration". Manager subsequently spoke to Michelin on phone and then advised that "as a good will gesture" they would provide a $100.00 refund as tire was not defective in their opinion! I'm obviously not happy with their response and wonder if any of the more experienced and knowledgable FT owners with tire evaluation experience might share their opinions. Photo's attached

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #1 – December 07, 2010, 04:31:14 pm

Welcome to the ForeForum.

Let's get some more facts here.

What is the age of the tire (from DOT number) which gives WEEK and YEAR of production?

What PSI do you carry in the rear tires. What is your actual rear axle weight (weight each side even better if you have it)?

Zipper blowouts are generally the result of underinflation/overloading which causes over-flexing of the steel belts. Bend a paper clip repeatedly and it will break. Same for the steel belts in the tire. And when one lets go, it puts even more stress on its already weakened "neighbor" belts. This leads to a zipper blowout.

Of course any penetration that severs one or more belts can cause the same failure. And, as this failure is not in the usual "line" equidistant from the tread/bead it may indeed have started with a cut/penetration.

Brett

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #2 – December 07, 2010, 04:43:19 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 07, 2010, 04:31:14 pm

Welcome to the ForeForum.

Let's get some more facts here.

What is the age of the tire (from DOT number) which gives WEEK and YEAR of production?

What PSI do you carry in the rear tires. What is your actual rear axle weight (weight each side even better if you have it)?

Zipper blowouts are generally the result of underinflation/overloading which causes over-flexing of the steel belts. Bend a paper clip repeatedly and it will break. Same for the steel belts in the tire. And when one lets go, it puts even more stress on its already weakened "neighbor" belts. This leads to a zipper blowout.

Of course any penetration that severs one or more belts can cause the same failure. And, as this failure is not in the usual "line" equidistant from the tread/bead it may indeed have started with a cut/penetration.

Brett

Brett,
If your explanation is appropriate for this case, then would you say that the other dually tire is equally compromised? That is, the increased out of spec flexing of the sidewalls would have to occurr to both tires of the dually combination?

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #3 – December 07, 2010, 04:47:23 pm

Yes, if the coach was driven very far with one dual flat, the other one has been run SEVERELY overloaded and would also be suspect. It should be inspected as well.

Brett

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #4 – December 07, 2010, 04:58:54 pm

Brett,
I don't think I made my point clearly. What I mean is that if the side wall break was caused due to "fatigue of the steel cords sidewall", then I assume that this condition developed over a longer period of time. Then, both tires of that streeside dually should have about the same level of fatigue. I would base this on the logic that if one dually is low and the other is just right, the more inflated tire would help its twin not flex as much but still flex perhaps more than desired resulting in "fatigue for both. Then, wouldn't both tires be suspect even w/o a blowout?

Bottom line is that what I wanted to convey was that the dually not replaced should be professionally inspected.

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #5 – December 07, 2010, 05:07:51 pm

Good point, Peter-- it should be inspected.

We KNOW that the other tire in a dual situation would severely overloaded if driven with its "partner" blown out/flat.

It certainly may have been overloaded if driven with its partner underinflated-- really depends on how underinflated the one that blew was run and for how long.

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #6 – December 07, 2010, 05:38:42 pm

DOT mfg code is 1208 so tires were relatively fresh when purchased by FT. Coach placard calls for 90 psi front and rear but I run with 95 psi cold. Have never gotten individual weights but did weigh coach + front & rear shortly after purchase - full fuel and water and empty grey and black tanks. Can't put my hands on the weight slip at the moment however rear was around 19600 by memory and front was around 9600. I'll try to find and advise actuals.

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #7 – December 07, 2010, 05:46:13 pm

The fact that I had a similar side-wall failure on a Michelin (SOB coach) some years ago made me a dedicated convert to Goodyear's G-670. I've heard stories about unusual wear patterns on the G-670, but "not on our coach" - in 14,000+ miles. Still very pleased with the decision. After my sidewall blow-out, I did a little digging on-line and found a fairly significant number of other Michelin side-wall ruptures. All were blamed on "operator-error". That was admittedly a different series and size Michelin tire ( I "think" XAS?" - and, of-course, "individual results may vary".

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #8 – December 07, 2010, 05:52:23 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 07, 2010, 04:31:14 pm

What PSI do you carry in the rear tires. What is your actual rear axle weight (weight each side even better if you have it)?

Also load range of the tire. I'm only finding a load range "L" for the lone XZA-1 on Michelin's inflation table website (which doesn't mean yours aren't a different size or load range).

http://www.michelinrvtires.com/michelinrv/tires-retreads/tireInfo.do?tread=XZA1

The overall inflation table site is here:

http://www.michelinrvtires.com/michelinrv/tires-retreads/load-inflation-tables.jsp

Michelle

Edited to add - Google is my friend and I should use it. Found the XZA-1+ load and inflation tables for LRG

http://www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/tires-retreads/tireInfo.do?tread=XZA-1%2B

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #9 – December 07, 2010, 06:26:05 pm

While I am a big Michelin fan I think I will pass on installing them on the coach. I went to a class on tires in Tampa. The tire professional said Michelin has the thinest sidewall. Thats why they have a smoother ride. He said Goodyear tires have the thickest. Thus they have a harsh ride. I have bridgestone. He said they are somewhere in the middle as far as sidewall thickness. He said Michelin are more prone to sidewall blowouts. That what he said anyway. Interested to hear any other info about tires. Hope you can get some more satisfaction from the Michelin Man..

Regards, Mark

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #10 – December 07, 2010, 07:21:04 pm

Joe,

I am sorry to see that one of your first posts had to be about such a near disastrous event. You certainly have done everything correctly. I don't know what your pro-rated warranty would have paid, but probably not a whole lot more than the "magnanimous" $100 from Michelin. No doubt that generous $100 will really hurt their bottom line.

I am sure you have already talked about how fortunate you are that you did not get hurt or hurt someone else.

Wish I could say something else to make you feel better, but I am glad you are safe and sound.

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #11 – December 07, 2010, 07:35:37 pm

Wish I would have read this yesterday, before I put 4 new xza 3s on the back...and the previous owner did what i did...replaced the front, and then did the back later...I assumed he did them all together. making my backs coming up on 7 years , but they turned out to be 04 s ..then we found a chewed up rotor..I assume due to over greasing to boot......

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #12 – December 07, 2010, 08:39:15 pm

My tire guy said the same thing as Mark's, Michelins in general are more prone to sidewall failure and catastrophic blowouts and Goodyears are harder to keep balanced and have a harsher ride. I chose the Goodyears on my last coach and had no problems. My current coach came with Michelins and so far no problems but I run them at 103 psi to help prevent sidewall fatigue. I prefer a rougher ride to a blow out.

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #13 – December 07, 2010, 09:34:53 pm

I run at 105 in the front and 100 in the rear and 95 in the tag. It is a bit higher than needed but it does give more protection at the cost of a harder ride but the Konis helped those out too.

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #14 – December 07, 2010, 10:35:43 pm

Load Range on Blowout tire - Only identifying mark that I can find is a large "K" after the XZA-1+ designation. I was under the impression that there was no "K" load range but I can't find anything else !

Jon Harris

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #15 – December 07, 2010, 11:00:12 pm

Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark...

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #16 – December 08, 2010, 09:02:24 am

I'll repeat what I have in the past. I am no real fan of Michelin mainly due to reports here and elsewhere of sidewall failures.
I am running Continental HSL's load range H on mine. I purchased these after TRYING to compare several tire brands and listening to some tire folks that I believe to be knowledgeable and honest. These tires are heavier in the sidewall than other brands and they MAY ride stiffer than some but I can't tell any difference on my FT. I also factored in cost when I bought these, they ran at that time almost 100 bucks less than Michelins. I carry 110 in all tires and I know that this seems high but I am more interested in safety than I am in ride. JMHO

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #17 – December 08, 2010, 10:30:36 am

Ran 3 set of Michelin's on SOB (gas, weight 19,800 lbs) never a problem. Am running XZA-3's LRG on U300. So far no problem that can be blamed on tire. But now am getting scared.
Had to (?) put a LRH on right outboard tire. Is there a problem of mixing on a dual??

Bill

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #18 – December 08, 2010, 10:46:20 am

Assuming the load range of the new tire is equal to or greater than the other one ("partner") in a dual application, the other primary issue is effective rolling radius. If one tire is taller than the other (due to difference in design specs or difference in tread wear) it will carry a disproportionate amount of weight and therefore much more likely to run overloaded.

Brett

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #19 – December 08, 2010, 10:49:27 am

I just had A chit chat with my tire guy , he stated that more tires on heavy units fail because of under inflation than any other cause . So I run the higher pressure , did so in my tractor trailer also . To date ,no blow outs , only nails and that sort of thing causing slow leaks .All three of the Foretravels that I've owned came to me with under inflated tires .I think the deal was to impress on me how great they ride . I noticed It right off by the wiggle factor in steering . His quote " makes no difference what nane brand of tire" "'keep air close to max thats printed on tire"

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #20 – December 08, 2010, 11:26:40 am

Hi Brad - That's interesting because thats exactly what the owner of 484 Tire Service said to me. He first asked what pressures I ran at and I told him the FT data plate called for 90 but I ran 95. He pointed out the max cold inflation number of the XZA-1+ (110 psi) and said thats what he would recommend. Claimed that he's seen "hundreds" of the sidewall zipper failures and clearly didn't think highly of Michelin !

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #21 – December 08, 2010, 12:09:04 pm

Before condemning Michelin, this may be a case where everyone did everything right and something bad still happened. The damage caused to the fender was due solely to the air rushing out of the tire, as there is just a split in the tire and not a chunk of tire missing. That may seem far fetched, but something similar happened to the sewage compartment on my SOB. That was back in the early years when I didn't know about driving on old tires. Also 5 miles earlier I had driven over a bomb nose like device implanted in the center of a street intersection in Comfort, TX. All the weight on left rear was on one tire. In normal use this happens from time to time, like when one tire goes over a pothole, rock, curb, etc and the other doesn't. I carry 5 extra psi for that reason above the weight/inflation chart (may increase it to 10 psi). Trying to reach a happy medium between safety, ride, traction, etc.

If the fiberglass fender parts were found and saved, it may be repairable at less cost than a new fender. Finding the correct matching gel coat will be a problem due to shipping restrictions.

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #22 – December 08, 2010, 01:25:46 pm

I've not yet had a blow out on my MH but in 40 years of running tractor trailer rigs we have never had a tire mfg come back after tire failure inspection and claim responsibility. Have one as we speak being inspected. In my experience they will always site air pressure issues or driver ran over something. Hey, may be true but I cant help being skeptical.

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #23 – January 09, 2011, 12:34:33 pm

Update to the Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout Saga !
Met with the Michelin "MATT" representative on Dec.20th at my local Michelin Truck Center. This meeting after several weeks of email exchanges with Michelin Customer Care (nice name but poor description) regarding my tire failure. All responses from Customer Care were to the effect that the blowout was caused by either underinflation / impact damage / penetration / or fatigue rupture - literally anything except a defective tire ! I refused to accept the results of their evaluation or the offer of $100.00 as a "customer accomodation". The tire was mounted on a spreader to allow internal examination and after several minutes the MATT rep announced that he saw no signs of any run flat or underinflation symptoms and that Michelin would grant a full warranty replacement for the tire ( $600.00). Very glad at the outcome and very disappointed at all of the denial and aggravation that preceeded the final determination. Based on everything that I've learned as a result of this incident I'll be running my tires at higher then minimum recommended cold pressures despite the penalty in ride comfort.

Re: Michelin XZA-1+ Blowout

Reply #24 – January 09, 2011, 12:56:44 pm

WooHoo!!!
Outstanding... Now if you could just sell that house in PA...

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