COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Topic: COLD, COLD WEATHER START (Read 1778 times) previous topic - next topic

COLD, COLD WEATHER START

December 08, 2010, 04:09:39 pm

Come 12/26 we will possibly head south. In the engine compartment is a canister of starting fluid, actuated from driver's panel? It looks pretty old and may be empty. There is an apparent pushbutton for actuating the canister from the driver's seat. Will I need to use starting fluid if I have the engine block heater on for a day or two? Oh, by the way, It is the Detroit diesel 8.2, 200hp with the turbo, 1989 model. Temps are getting down to the single digits and even below zero at night.
The coach is plugged in but I used the battery disconnect switch. There are two LARGE 12volt batteries under the steps and they are new as of this fall, so cranking, with the boost switch, shouldn't be a problem.

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #1 – December 08, 2010, 04:24:44 pm

You should be fine using the block heater. I've never had any problem with any of my trucks starting in colder temps than that while plugged in.

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #2 – December 08, 2010, 04:32:43 pm

nitehawk. That canister did or does contain diethyl ether, the stuff they used to put people to sleep with. It is highly volatile and can blow up your engine. USE IT ONLY IN DIRE EMERGENCY!
I hope others more knowledgeable than I will explain how it is supposed to be used.

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #3 – December 08, 2010, 04:34:25 pm

I've never liked using ether if I could get around it. Of course in 40 years of trucking have used many a can. Had more trucks in the early years without block heaters than with. I left a manual Cummins sit for nine days once in St Paul Minnesota plugged in and it got down to 40 below during the time and never got above zero. It started and rocked and bucked and blew smoke rings for 45 min, man I spent some cold winters up there. Start one like that and just walk away from it at low idle to warm itself up.

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #4 – December 08, 2010, 04:36:28 pm

While ether/starting fluid poses a LOT more risk for modern engines with grid intake manifold heaters (can you say EXPLOSION), it can be hard on any engine.

Plug in you block heater 4 hours or so before you want to start it-- overnight at the longest. Be sure the batteries are fully charged. If you have a boost/battery combine switch, turn it on so all your batteries are helping turn over the engine.

Brett

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #5 – December 08, 2010, 04:48:11 pm

How can I safely remove that canister of explosive starting fluid in the engine compartment?

Quote

While ether/starting fluid poses a LOT more risk for modern engines with grid intake manifold heaters (can you say EXPLOSION), it can be hard on any engine.

Plug in you block heater 4 hours or so before you want to start it-- overnight at the longest. Be sure the batteries are fully charged. If you have a boost/battery combine switch, turn it on so all your batteries are helping turn over the engine.

Brett

Brett Wolfe

1993 U240

Moderator, FMCA Forum

Moderator Caterpillar RV Engine Owners Club

Wolfe10 on RV.net/forum

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George & Sandy & Trixie
Lost in America in a 40' Foretravel aka "Moose"
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Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #6 – December 08, 2010, 04:53:24 pm

Take a torch to it...

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #7 – December 08, 2010, 05:20:22 pm

TAKE A TORCH TO IT , AND NEVER WORRY ABOUT COLD STARTS FOR EVER MORE

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #8 – December 08, 2010, 05:28:44 pm

George,

Sounds like Dave needs a little happy hour!

If your engine was designed to be able to use starting fluid (ether), I would leave the canister there for emergency use (starting in very cold weather with no time to use block heater/or Aqua hot.

Check with your engine manufacturer to verify that your engine (by serial number) is safe for use of starting fluid. Said another way, verify that you do NOT have an intake manifold electric grid heater.

Brett

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #9 – December 08, 2010, 05:37:39 pm

I believe I read in the Detroit Diesel owners manual how & when to use the ether boost but I dislike using it as I have used it on gas vehicles when I worked part time winters starting vehicles. Even then I would only use it as a last resort. Having never had a diesel powered vehicle before I wanted to make sure my qualms about using the ether were correct.

THANKS ALL!!!

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #10 – December 08, 2010, 08:03:16 pm

My father-in-law built a charcoal fire, in a snow saucer (round aluminum sled), under the engine in his International cabover to get it started one very cold snowy day back during the Buffalo Blizzard of '77. He left for Florida the same day and never moved back. And he never came back during the winter either. He died during the winter time down there, but we buried him on a hillside overlooking his family's Pennsylvania homestead in the summer time. That was what he wanted. Smart man.

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #11 – December 08, 2010, 09:10:28 pm

I am in total agreement on "Do not use the ether ever", use the block heater, keep the electric heater in good condition or better yet, use the Aqua Hot and turn on the heat to engine.

Am aware everyone has their own excuse for why they should use ether, that is very fine with me, I will never use it. I happen to be aware of the down side of using it. On a regular engine, your are damaging the compression rings, making them have less tension to the cylinder wall, IE, less compression, then harder to start and now you have it weaned on either, congrats

If you happen to have an engine with glow plugs and/or intake electric heater, sure use more either and watch the fireworks and smoke, more smoke from you ears when you see how that works out.

Almost everyone knows someone that heard of a guy that used either for years and did not hurt anything, I say congrats.
Using ether is an art in its self, you only need enough to start the engine, not lock it up.
As mentioned have a ball, for me, no thanks, I am too poor to experiment

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #12 – December 08, 2010, 09:14:24 pm

Once you start using starting fluid, you will have to continue which is bad - never use starting fluid except in emergency situations. Thanks Clarence

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #13 – December 08, 2010, 09:55:20 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 08, 2010, 05:28:44 pm

George,

Sounds like Dave needs a little happy hour!

If your engine was designed to be able to use starting fluid (ether), I would leave the canister there for emergency use (starting in very cold weather with no time to use block heater/or Aqua hot.

Check with your engine manufacturer to verify that your engine (by serial number) is safe for use of starting fluid. Said another way, verify that you do NOT have an intake manifold electric grid heater.

Brett

Brett,

I think Dave was well into the Happy Hour. As to the starting fluid. Geez, FoT built it that way, so one would have the feeling it as safe. But there is no way in H E _ _ I would ever even think about using that stuff to start our engine.

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #14 – December 08, 2010, 11:15:09 pm

WD 40 has become an alternative to ether in this area. Not nearly as explosive.

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #15 – December 09, 2010, 04:19:44 am

Gayland, correct pm WD40. The problem with ether is the violent explosion which takes the temper out of the compression ring/s, requiring more either the next time.

Have seen a few engines that have been ether'd to point they will not start even on a hot sunny day without either. Referred to as "Weaned on Ether"

Every time you give it a shot of either you take a little temper out of the ring/s.
No thanks for my engines, I use the electric block heater or the Aqua Hot feature

The 3208 Cat engine is the quickest starting engine around, A fairly good medium duty engine.

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #16 – December 09, 2010, 10:05:52 am

Quote

"How can I safely remove that canister of explosive starting fluid in the engine compartment? "

George,
Go to the canister and unplug the wiring harness to prevent activation of the Ether canister, or disconnect the switch up front.
Rick

P.S. This probably qualify's as a Tech topic and should be moved over there. Thanks in advance Steve.

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #17 – December 09, 2010, 10:42:30 am

Rick,

Thank you. I will do that. Certainly an easy way to defuse a potentially volatile situation.
Although Dave Head's answer does add an element of excitement.

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #18 – December 09, 2010, 12:58:05 pm

Again, Gayland is right about the wd 40 for starting. I've used it on trucks that driver was bad about running out of fuel.Finally had to recommend that driver find someone else to drive for. Far less combustionable (sp) and a bit of lube as well.

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #19 – December 11, 2010, 09:53:04 pm

Quote from: Clarence Lacy – December 08, 2010, 09:14:24 pm

Once you start using starting fluid, you will have to continue which is bad - never use starting fluid except in emergency situations. Thanks Clarence

I had the FT shop in Dallas (back in the good 'ol days) disconnect the either canister in my 2000 FT.

John Lang

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #20 – December 13, 2010, 05:54:46 am

1st check and see IF your coach has an electric block heater and make sure it's working( engine should warm to the touch) in 3-4 hours. The canister you describe is a remote activated ether starting system, very common on older diesels used properly it will not harm your engine(refer to your owners manual for proper use). It is used for engines not equiped with glow plug starting aids. So if you have a block heater turn it on when you go to bed(the coach should be plugged in) try starting if no start, give it a shot of ether and try it. Also make sure your batteries are in good shape and all connections are clean and tight, you might also have a truck shop check for any voltage drop in your battery cable's to the starter (especally if your coach has the orginal cables on it, they can have problems on the inside that you can't see) also FYI the boost switch mentioned above is not for starting as such, but to allow your house battery charging system to charge your cranking system battery's while you are parked, due to the length of the cables it will not flow enough current to help much starting. Happy cranking

Bruce Beane

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #21 – December 13, 2010, 10:37:25 am

I am almost never connected to shore power so I start the generator for an hour and turn on the block heater. If parked while visiting someone, a long extension cord will not do the trick unless it is really heavy duty. The voltage drops too much and everything shuts down. I do carry a large propane burner with a five gallon tank and 10 foot hose. I light the burner under the engine about an hour before I am ready to go. It heats the whole compartment as well as the engine. Don't have to put it too close to the pan! I have seen a lot of truckers with charcoal that do the same thing in freezing temps. I usually turn the engine over with foot off the pedal until it fires a couple of cylinders and then gradually feed a little more fuel to it. Don't crank it for more than 30 seconds and then wait a couple of minutes if it doesn't light. Yes, good idea to check battery connections ahead of time. Dirty injectors are also not noticed until you have to start in winter. High altitude, sub freezing temps make even starting a Detroit difficult without the above.

Pierce & Gaylie
93' U300/36

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #22 – December 13, 2010, 11:43:29 am

Coach is backed into the driveway over onto the "turnout" so the rearend recieved the brunt of the snow storm and now the radiator and fans (rear mounted) are packed with snow. I think if I make sure the fans turn freely the radiator will melt the snow as it warms up. Right??

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #23 – December 13, 2010, 12:59:44 pm

Nitehawk,

FWIW, my '91 GV has the same ether system yours does. The documentation that came with the CAT engine specified using ether below 30 degrees. I have used the block heater when we were at 8900 feet and it was about 32 degrees and the engine started just fine. I believe that my ether starting system is by KBI. I printed out the directions for checking to see it there is any fluid in it but I cannot find them now.

Re: COLD, COLD WEATHER START

Reply #24 – December 13, 2010, 08:23:31 pm

Enough about primary engine starts.
Some thought to the Aux power unit ( Power-Tech 10k)
How is it effected by lower temp's
I think If I could get it started I could get the main Powewr Plant going.

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