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I got gas...

...and I'm pretty torqued about it.  Someone gave me an excellent tip about this site and directed to the archives.  The archives are VERY helpful.  I've still got two questions that I'm currently having as a newbie.  I've read several articles about the LP detector and understand how it functions much better.  My question now is, "WHERE IS THE DARN THING?".  I've found the carbon monoxide detector (had been disabled, but I reconnected it and tested it) and the fire detector (tested that, too), but I can't find the LP detector.

Concerning torque, I found in my owners manual specifications for wheel lug torques...the question is how do I interpret the chart?  Do I really have to know how many threads per inch and the diameter of the stud (diameter of the stud is easy, but how do you do threads per inch?).

Thanks guys,

Biscuit

PS  Forgot to add, I've got a 1998 U270.

Re: I got gas...

Reply #1 –
Quote from: BiscuitBoy –
I've read several articles about the LP detector and understand how it functions much better.  My question now is, "WHERE IS THE DARN THING?".  I've found the carbon monoxide detector (had been disabled, but I reconnected it and tested it) and the fire detector (tested that, too), but I can't find the LP detector.

PS  Forgot to add, I've got a 1998 U270.

Biscuit (the Posse like your handle  ;) ),

I'm not familiar with the detector used in a '98.  If similar to the one in our '03 it should be somewhere near the floor.  Ours is just inside the bath mounted on the outside of the sink cabinet.  I'm sure others will chime in with more accurate info.

Since you've got a 1998, if you don't know the purchase/installation history on the detectors (smoke, CO, and LP), you should consider replacing them.  They have about a 7 year life before they're considered unreliable and should be replaced.  In ours, the smoke was a simple replacement from either Lowes or Home Depot (I found the exact model, so easy twist off, twist on the original mounting base.  The CO and LP are RV-specific because they are wired into the 12V.

Michelle

Re: I got gas...

Reply #2 –
Quote
I've found the carbon monoxide detector (had been disabled, but I reconnected it and tested it) and the fire detector (tested that, too), but I can't find the LP detector.

Check at floor level. Not sure of your configuration, but mine is located near the floor at the aisle side of the bathroom vanity cabinet base. Or have I confused that with the carbon monoxide detector????  ::)

Re: I got gas...

Reply #3 –
No...the CO detector is up high and the LP gas detector is low as the propane gas is heavier than air...it also detects other gasses from what I hear...like methane?

Re: I got gas...

Reply #4 –
My 93GV has it located under the sink in the kitchen.  You can see the lights and switch when you come in the door.  There have been posts in the past about the reliability of these.  This is the first RV that I have had that has one.  If my wife used hair spray about 10 minutes later it would go off.  When I replaced the carpet the glue or something in the carpet caused mine to go crazy.  A week with the tank valve off and it still wouldn't allow LP to flow.  I finally turned it off and removed the plunger out of the valve on the tank. 

Re: I got gas...

Reply #5 –
Biscuitboy,

I second the motion that the LP detector is low and the CO detector up high or that's where they should be, and that the expected life is only about 5 to 10 years.  I have a 96, so your 98 could be different and probably is.  Both of my original detectors "ProTechTor" were powered by the house battery.  They were mounted in recessed cutouts.  The LP detector also had a circuit that held open an electrically operated solenoid valve at the propane tank.  If the detector was off the valve was closed, it also closed the valve if propane was detected.  After 13 years the LP detector would still test and operate the valve (unless the detector was cold). Then I would heat it with a hair dryer to get it working so I could get propane to the furnace. But it failed to alarm when I shot propane from an unlit torch directly into the unit, so it looked like it was working and tested, but it was really useless as an alarm.  The company no longer makes the LP detector that has the wiring for the valve.  Many owners had trouble with the valve, and many including myself have removed the valve.  My detectors have been replaced with ones that still use house battery power, but if I had to do it again, I would just buy ones powered by dry cell batteries.  Some folks also install more than one of each.  Hair sprays, insect sprays, and other gases can cause false alarms with the LP detector.  I haven't checked lately, but some other company may make a detector that will operate a solenoid valve. $$$

I got gas...

Reply #6 –
Sometimes I sits and thinks...and sometimes I just sits.

After Michelle responded I was busy around the coach when it suddenly dawned on me what she had said, "The LP detector is somewhere around the floor."  Duh, of course it is.  What I remembered is what Peter said.  Propane is heavier than air and carbon monoxide is lighter than air.  So, I checked and sure enough I had re-enabled the LP detector along the floor (it's across from the kitchen in my 1998 U270).  What wasn't working was my carbon monoxide detector beside my inverter read out.

So, I'll get that changed, probably install another smoke/heat detector and I'm thinking about adding a heat/smoke detector in the bedroom since the bed is located rigth above the engine.

The propane detector probably needs to be changed and I'll sort that out as soon as things seem semi-operational.

Anybody got anything on torque settings for the lugs?

Biscuit

PS  Biscuit is my nickname.  Got as a child because my brother's use to rag me about always getting a biscuit straight out of the oven from our Mom.  Guess it stuck.

Re: I got gas...

Reply #7 –
Hi Biscuit,

I have a 1999 U270, and my Alcoa manual states that the torque should be 450 foot-pounds +-50 if the threads are not lubricated.  Should the threads have been lubricated, the torque value is 350 foot-pounds +-50.

Re: I got gas...

Reply #8 –
Is there a way to remove the solenoid so the propane does not shut off?

Re: I got gas...

Reply #9 –
On my 93 GV the solenoid is on the LP tank in the line from the shut off valve.  Seem to remember it has one wire to it.  I removed the screws that held the cover on, removed the cover.  Pulled out the spring and the plunger.  Replaced the cover, turned on the gas and used soapy water to check for leaks.

Re: I got gas...

Reply #10 –
I replaced the Protechtor LP gas monitor last fall, but the new monitor only has 2 leads instead of the 3 leads on the older Protechtor LP gas monitor.  I now understand this third wire activates a solenoid in the gas line and that probably explains why I cannot get the LP gas appliances (cook top, water heater and gas furnace) to operate.

It appears some people have removed the gas solenoid valve in the piping or removed the plunger in the valve so gas will flow when using a LP gas detector that does not have the circuitry to operate the solenoid valve.

Is it better to remove the solenoid valve or remove the plunger OR is it better to obtain a detector that will control a solenoid valve in the gas line?  If it is better to obtain a detector that will control a solenoid valve in the gas line, what detector(s) are currently available for this?  (I have only located the Safe T Alert 70-742-R-XX-Kit (where XX is color abbreviation WT for white, etc.))

If installing a LP gas detector that controls a solenoid valve in the gas line, do I have to replace the current solenoid valve in the gas line as it appears the above detector comes with a solenoid valve, or can I just connect the 3rd connection on the detector to the current wire in the coach?

Thank you very much.

Re: I got gas...

Reply #11 –
Morris, The gas solenoid is a PITA and a real nuisance.  You are not losing anything by disabling it.  I would bet that very few coaches still have one in operation.  The gas detector will let you know of LP in the coach and the shut off  is redundant.
Gary B

Re: I got gas...

Reply #12 –
Original propane shut-off solenoid takes 12 volts to open and about 3 volts to keep open.

We put together a home-made device that manually opened the solenoid when we had a false alarm. But later we removed the solenoid during a main valve leak repair.

Re: I got gas...

Reply #13 –
I first took the plunger out of the electric shut off valve to get the gas to flow.  Then I just removed our electric shut off valve, and installed a new detector.  I had found that new coaches not longer have the shut offs.  There are only a very limited number of choices to use to retain the electric valve.  I think that the two wires at the old detector were for power from either the house and the engine batteries.  That allows the system to always have power.  I used just one wire in the system.

Re: I got gas...

Reply #14 –
I took the pintle out of the shut off for the gas.  It is by the propane tank.  it is easy to find as it has wires leading to  it.  I disassembled it, took out the sliding pintle (cuts off flow). In my 1996, I had two attwood detectors one for propane and the other for carbon monoxide.  Now, I have replaced both with combo propane and carbon monoxide detectors.  My attwood detectors were just behind the frig.  The carbon monoxide was high and propane low.  Both were about a foot behind the frig.  Now, don't have a propane cut off as Attwood does not sell the same detectors that they did when the coach was built (no cut off for the gas).  As I understand it this cut off is no longer a requirement and most manufactuers have discontinued.  I did find one that was considerably more expensive than the Attwood flush mounted ones that I had.  As noted replaced both (single monitors with dual purpose monitors), got rid of pintle in the gas cut off solenoid, and have had no issues so far.  Do check your gas fittings if you do the removal to insure NO leaks. 

Re: I got gas...

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Gary Bouland –
Morris, The gas solenoid is a PITA and a real nuisance.  You are not losing anything by disabling it.  I would bet that very few coaches still have one in operation.  The gas detector will let you know of LP in the coach and the shut off  is redundant.
Gary B
Gary, how did you disable it?
Thanks,

Re: I got gas...

Reply #16 –
Sure like the idea of testing propane alarm by using an unlit propane torch. Should work better than squeezing the Rocket our cat in front of it!!

Re: I got gas...

Reply #17 –
You can disable the solenoid valve by removing the plunger that the electric is supposed to move.  As someone said, it takes power to open and then less power to keep open.  But close the tank valve, and unscrew the 4 screws in the silver end cap, and pull out the plunger and reassemble.  Test for leaks of course and enjoy.  Take just minutes to do.

Re: I got gas...

Reply #18 –
I want to thank everyone for their comments.  They were very helpful.

I thought about it and decided that since the current code does not require the shutoff valve, I would attempt to disable or remove the valve.  I turned the LP gas supply valve to the off position to shut off the gas flow.

I found that the gas train was very tight so I thought there must be a different way.  I saw the small bolt at the top of the solenoid coil and decided to remove it to see what I found under it.  After removing the solenoid coil, I saw the valve stem and the bonnet nut at the bottom of the valve stem.  So I removed the bonnet nut and saw the small cylinder inside the valve stem. I removed the small cylinder (plunger to open the valve I presume) and reattached the valve stem.

I then opened the LP gas supply valve and turned on a burner on the cook top.  I immediately heard a very slight hiss as I presume the gas was forcing the air out of the line. I lighted a grill lighter and very soon the burner was burning.  I then lighted each of the burners and all 4 were burning just fine.

After putting some water back in the fresh water tank I turned on the hot water heater and very quickly the burner came on.

So it looks like I have been able to restore gas supply to the cook top and the water heater.  I haven't tried the furnace yet, (90+ degrees this afternoon), but I feel sure it will work fine.  Will try it some early morning this week when it is cooler.  I cannot start the fridge yet as the coach is not level enough.

But I feel sure the gas supply problem is now resolved.

Thanks again everyone.  I really appreciate your help.

Re: I got gas...

Reply #19 –
For anyone wishing to keep the original configuration with the cutoff untouched I found putting a 12v plug in the hot wire (red) under the bathroom sink; by disconnecting for a few seconds then restoring power allows me to reset the sensor and allow the gas to flow again.

Learned this the hard way when DW and I picked up our (new to us) 97 U320 in Arizona for the drive back to Washington.  One ice chest later and buying microwavable dinners we completed the trip. I have had the sensor fault only one other time since then and it was after a period of being stored.  A quick disconnect from power and all returns to normal.  Sure wish I knew that the first time.

Paul