Steering Box Replacement

Topic: Steering Box Replacement (Read 1589 times) previous topic - next topic

Steering Box Replacement

January 23, 2011, 10:47:48 pm

Yesterday I picked up my coach from Divine Coach Care in Phoenix following replacement of the steering box. I found it leaking in Las Vegas. I added a gallon of Lucas Oil Conditioner and Stop Leak and drove to Congress, AZ. It leaked another half gallon of oil, so I knew it had to be replaced. Mike in FT Parts told me I had a M100-PDPI box made by R.H. Shepard and gave me contact info. When I called them I learned that each of the three seals could be purchased for $220, or a re-manufactured box could be supplied for $1143 with a $220 rebate upon return of the core. I couldn't tell which seal was leaking with all the mess, and couldn't get a firm quote for a seal replacement from anyone, so I ordered a re-man box and had it drop shipped to Divine based on Chad's recommendation. Chris thought they could replace it in two hours. It took 11. This is their description of the work:

CLEANED AREA AND CHECKED OLD BOX FOR LEAKS, FOUND LEAKING AT INPUT SEAL AREA. PULLED OUT GENERATOR
AND REMOVED ACCESS COVER IN GENERATOR BOX FOR ACCESS TO PITMAN ARM. MARK TIMING MARK ON PITMAN
ARM WITH MARK ON BOX. INSTALLED PULLERS AND AFTER SEVERAL ATTEMPTS PITMAN ARM CAME OFF BOX.
LOOSEN STEERING COLUMN FROM INSIDE AND PULLED INPUT SHAFT OUT FROM TOP OF BOX. REMOVED LINES AND
CAPPED OFF. DRAINED COOLANT FROM GENERATOR RADIATOR AND REMOVED RADIATOR/BLOWER ASSEMBLY FROM
FRONT SERVICE BAY. REMOVED BOX THROUGH FRONT SERVICE BAY. INSTALLED NEW BOX THROUGH FRONT
SERVICE BAY. INSTALLED LINES AND INPUT SHAFT. INSTALLED PITMAN ARM AND ALIGN WITH TIMING MARKS.
STARTED ENGINE AND VERIFY NO LEAKS WERE PRESENT. SET RELIEF VALVES AS PER INSTRUCTIONS. ROAD TESTED
AND FOUND LEFT TURN WAS NOT SHORT ENOUGH AND STEERING WHEEL WAS OFF CENTER. REMOVED PITMAN ARM
AGAIN AND INSTALLED ON BOX. ROAD TESTED AGAIN AND FOUND TURNS ARE NOW EQUAL BUT STEERING WHEEL IS
OFF CENTER. PULL STEERING WHEEL AND CENTER ON SHAFT. ROAD TEST AGAIN AND FOUND WHEEL IS NOW
STRAIGHT. INSTALLED RADIATOR/BLOWER ASSEMBLY AND FILLED GENERATOR WITH DRAINED COOLANT. STARTED
GENERATOR AND BLED AIR OUT OF COOLING SYSTEM. CLOSED COMPARTMENTS AND BOX OLD STEERING BOX FOR
SHIPMENT. JOB COMPLETE.
$876.00

Based on one of Barry's old posts it looks like turn and steering wheel adjustments can be made at the box. Does Chris' description look reasonable, or does it sound like I'm paying for a tech's education?

The whole job has cost $1850, which is less than the $3000 others have paid! Moral: If you find an oil leak in the front right corner, get it fixed fast. If you run out of oil, the bill could be lethal!

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #1 – January 24, 2011, 08:56:51 am

Quote from: amos.harrison – January 23, 2011, 10:47:48 pm

Moral: If you find an oil leak in the front right corner, get it fixed fast. If you run out of oil, the bill could be lethal!

Do you mean driver side corner?

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #2 – January 24, 2011, 09:19:56 am

Amos,
Misery loves company. I had a similar experience with my steering gear. I was told by FT that replacement of the steering gear was a task accomplished within a four hour window. As I was in California at that time I found a FT authorized shop in Livermore. I ordered a remanufactured replacement from RH Shepard for $1213- $220 for the core. I was stuck for 1 1/2 days as they struggled to remove/replace the unit. I observed the entire process and it became very clear that FT never anticipated this repair. Bottom line was $1970

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #3 – January 24, 2011, 09:58:10 am

Having replaced a seal in my steering box on our simple U270-96 in 2004 myself, I think the second job was perfect.

I was in very rural southern Missouri, working as a camphost. No truck repair folks were nterested in coming to me. We did not tow, other than an ATV to go get parts. My brother came to visit me or the Forest Service campground where we worked, often. He was a firefighter, and so could do almost anything ... he had lots of advice. This is a dedicated ATV/motorcycle park with over a hundred miles of trails that he and his buddies have been going to for twenty years. He brought me tools. UPS brought me parts.

I read the action items on your list -- they seem genuine. (I did not have to fool with the generator, other than slide it forward on its mounts to make room for working on the pitman arm.) During my repair, I did not get the pitman arm back on the original setting. I have learned to live it; turning to the right sharper than to the left. Although this is an irritation, as is not having the steering wheel "centered" when driving straight, neither of these are worth the scraped knuckles and sore shoulders than adjustment would call for. The mystery to me of your story is why the first fix produced/left you with a a leaking box. Andy1

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #4 – January 24, 2011, 12:08:07 pm

Andy,

The cut angles left and right are EASILY adjustable with a small screwdriver.

There are small screws-- one on the top and one on the bottom of the steering box that control cut angles-- one controls cut angle to the right, one to the left. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE CORRECT.

If too little cut angle (screw for that direction in too far), you have a LONG turning radius.

More critically, if too much cut angle (screw for that direction out too far) YOU CAN BEND SUSPENSION COMPONENTS. The hydraulic force is such that it needs to be adjusted such that the steering box can NEVER reach the adjustable stop for the steering knuckle.

Brett

Quote from: Lewis Anderson – January 24, 2011, 09:58:10 am

Having replaced a seal in my steering box on our simple U270-96 in 2004 myself, I think the second job was perfect.

I was in very rural southern Missouri, working as a camphost. No truck repair folks were nterested in coming to me. We did not tow, other than an ATV to go get parts. My brother came to visit me or the Forest Service campground where we worked, often. He was a firefighter, and so could do almost anything ... he had lots of advice. This is a dedicated ATV/motorcycle park with over a hundred miles of trails that he and his buddies have been going to for twenty years. He brought me tools. UPS brought me parts.

I read the action items on your list -- they seem genuine. (I did not have to fool with the generator, other than slide it forward on its mounts to make room for working on the pitman arm.) During my repair, I did not get the pitman arm back on the original setting. I have learned to live it; turning to the right sharper than to the left. Although this is an irritation, as is not having the steering wheel "centered" when driving straight, neither of these are worth the scraped knuckles and sore shoulders than adjustment would call for. The mystery to me of your story is why the first fix produced/left you with a a leaking box. Andy1

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #5 – January 24, 2011, 01:57:38 pm

Did you mean "the left front corner" ?

Jon Twork

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #6 – January 24, 2011, 08:28:57 pm

Having worked the heavytruck front end game, I wonder where the "High Point" is when the turn to one side is sharper than the other. Sounds like the High Point was never taken into consideration along withsteering wheel postion ?
Chances are real good after this above work was done, the coach handled like a bucket of noodle soup. Not good

If you do not understand High Point, there is a 99.99% chance it will not handle very nice.
AS they say Good luck

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #7 – January 24, 2011, 08:31:22 pm

In response to Lewis Anderson:
I am very interested in your steering box situation as I also have a 1996 U270.
How many miles were on your coach when your replaced the steering box?
Also, do I understand that you had to do the job TWICE?
I have about 230K on my coach and have not had to replace the box.
Do you have any idea what caused your failure?
Regards,

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #8 – January 24, 2011, 09:27:21 pm

I was getting oily residue down the driver's side of our '96 U295. Not a ton, but enough to know something wasn't right. Got a little concerned that the PowerTech was blowing oil, but when I opened the generator radiator compartment, I could see it was from a bad seal on the steering box. I took it to Parliament over in Clearwater (Foretravel auth. service), and made them quote me a flat rate to do the job. As it turned out, the local company that rebuilt their steering boxes was gone, and parts were going to be a problem, so I had them order a new one from Foretravel. They had one devil of a time getting the old one out, and when all was said and done, it was a $2500 job. C'est le vie!!

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #9 – January 25, 2011, 09:53:39 am

Yes, you are all right, it's the driver's side front corner. The coach drives just as it always has, so at least the job ended up correctly done. BTW, the coach has 100K miles.

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #10 – January 27, 2011, 04:01:24 am

Brett, thanks for informing me of the proper way to adjust the steering box. When warmer weather arrives, I will attempt....

Jon, in April, 04, the coach had 88,500 miles on it. While backing into a camphost site, I noticed a thin trail of clean oil. That lead to the seal repair on the steering box. We had owned this coach for less than 3 years and had added 22K during that time. I have no idea why the box decided to leak when it did. Twenty miles before, when parked in a nearby grocery store lot, there were no "puddles" under the coach. However, it was a fortunate occurrence, for we had time (3 months of hosting) and occasional brotherly help when he would visit.

When we bought the coach from Foretravel, I could not get maintenance information from them, other than the history that a front wheel bearing had been replaced at 44K. This little fact, and that new windshields, an unscarred front cap, and a foreign-cobbled-together generator (The books did not match the type of engine that was in place; the cooling fan was something that had been modified to fit by sawing off the end portions of the plastic blades.) made us consider that this vehicle had been a rebuild from a front end crash. We suspected that FT did not want to let me know this. Perhaps the steering assembly had been stressed sometime. Perhaps it had been replaced previously. My impression was that the coach had not been loved by the previous two owners. But we wanted a Foretravel.... Andy1

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #11 – January 27, 2011, 08:41:25 am

These hydraulic system seal problems reinforce the importance of changing the hydraulic oil at the recommended intervals. I'd always thought it was a waste of good oil, but no more. I've been changing it every two years, but who knows about the first seven years of the coach's life.

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #12 – January 27, 2011, 08:53:15 am

Quote from: amos.harrison – January 27, 2011, 08:41:25 am

These hydraulic system seal problems reinforce the importance of changing the hydraulic oil at the recommended intervals. I'd always thought it was a waste of good oil, but no more. I've been changing it every two years, but who knows about the first seven years of the coach's life.

And be sure to change the filters (inside reservoir) and use the proper oil. Ours calls for Delo 400 15-40, not hydraulic oil. Your reservoir should have a label telling you the proper fluid.

The "other" Brett

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #13 – January 27, 2011, 08:56:20 am

Is the hydraulic oil in the steering box changed independently of the large reservoir in the rear engine compartment?

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #14 – January 27, 2011, 09:52:15 am

The steering gear is part of the hydraulic system and does not require any other service. Earlier models had fittings on the input shaft that did require grease.

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #15 – January 27, 2011, 10:02:55 am

No. You change it by draining the reservoir. I believe all Unicoach model had the single large reservoir.
My U280 Unihome had the 'split system' with two reservoirs. One for fans, one for steering.

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #16 – January 30, 2011, 11:54:34 pm

Can the steering box be adjusted to tighten a little excess play in the steering wheel?

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #17 – January 31, 2011, 12:24:17 am

George,
If it is a Sheppard M-100...sorry, no.

Quote from: George Kuhn – January 30, 2011, 11:54:34 pm

Can the steering box be adjusted to tighten a little excess play in the steering wheel?

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #18 – January 31, 2011, 08:06:58 am

Correct, the M100 is not adjustable for free-play.

Brett

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #19 – January 31, 2011, 09:21:17 am

Here's a link to the Sheppard M100 power steering gear. Covers service, troubleshooting and repair in detail.

www.rhsheppard.com/mseries_complete2.pdf

The seals are replaceable without removing the assembly. Looks like a competent mech could handle it without a problem. By their instructions fluid change requires disconnecting lines at gear (in order to drain lines) and raising front wheels off ground so gear can be cycled to drain oil from it.

Chuck

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #20 – January 31, 2011, 10:21:01 am

I expect Barry will be snagging that link pretty quick...

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #21 – January 31, 2011, 12:42:17 pm

Well, I now know for sure I am a relic from an older generation or two, after reading the service manual for the Shepard M100 gear, I realize there is a whole new generation of steering gears. Much different from the days when I went through the Bear Front End alignment school at Rock Island, Ill.
No High Point, no preload, gosh what has happened to the good ole days?

I guess about like the old thinking about the Super Single Tires on trucks, some of us are showing our connection to being a relic or hardening of the arteries in the new world.
Just glad I can now pay a mechanic to solve my issues.

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #22 – February 01, 2011, 10:35:50 am

It sure would be a lot easier working on a steering box in a truck! I couldn't find any shop willing to replace a seal themselves. They all would send the box out to a rebuilding shop. There would be a big problem if the box were disassembled for seal replacement and then determined that the reason for seal failure was corrosion or wear of the respective shaft. Then the shop would be dead in the water with a disabled coach waiting for parts.

Re: Steering Box Replacement

Reply #23 – February 01, 2011, 06:13:46 pm

Very true. Being such a critical component many shops may defer working on them too. The cost for a factory overhauled one is pretty darn reasonable compared to the rack and pinion on a small car.

Chuck

Affiliate Notice