Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

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Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

January 30, 2011, 04:04:26 pm

We're in Las Cruces, NM and the prediction is for a low on February 2 of about 11 degrees. That is VERY cold for this area. We are in the process of moving from our sticks and bricks home and are just moving into the coach today. Question.... what do I need to do to keep things from freezing up? We will be in the coach and have the propane furnaces going. Hot water heater on too.

No water hose out, but the hose has water in it. I was thinking about getting some hay bails and stacking them next to the water manifold/water pump bay. Any other thoughts?

I guess I could just drain the water system and blow it out. Hate to do that since I just got it going again.

Thanks in advance.

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #1 – January 30, 2011, 04:22:13 pm

George,
If you are running the rear heat it has a vent that goes down to the water bay that will keep it warm. Just to be safe I would put a small electric heater down there. We also like to have a remote thermometer next to our water pump so we can monitor it.

Pamela

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #2 – January 30, 2011, 04:25:05 pm

Hi George (the other),

If I were in your shoes, I'd put Cosmo in the coach stay overnight with him. Turn the furnace on. The bays should be heated in your coach. Make sure the heater outlets in the bays are unobstructed. I'd add a 75 watt trouble light in the bay with the water pump/manifold.

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #3 – January 30, 2011, 04:48:06 pm

Geroge, Peggy and I have spent several nights with the temp below 10 degrees and many with the temp below 20. As everyone has suggested, use the back furnace and you shouldn't have any problems preventing the bays from freezing. My ducts to the bays were kinked and obstructed when we went below 10 and I still did not have a problem with freezing.

I did installed 1/2" Styrofoam sheeting in the plumbing bay doors just to help keep things a little warmer. I did not have a light or heater in the bays. The nice thing about Oklahoma was that the temps always went back above freezing the next morning. If it had stayed below freezing for days I think I would have had problems. I now have one of the ducts repaired and functioning but the other will remain crimped until I remove the water tank so I plan to stay here in south Texas until mid March.

I don't think I would worry too much.

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #4 – January 30, 2011, 06:31:26 pm

George,

We recently spent several days in our U295 when the temperature never went above 10F. A couple of water hoses in the service entrance bay froze solid, but nothing was damaged. There was no damage to the RO filter systems, outdoor wash faucet, or other plumbing.

Based on our experience, I would recommend:

Stuff the service entrance port with some insulating material. We use bubble wrap. It works well to stuff around the electric cord.

Set the thermostat for the rear furnace somewhere around 70F for the cold nights.

Close or cover the registers inside the coach for the rear furnace. Allow some air flow into the bedroom, but force as much warm air as you can into the basement. Check the basement vents to verify that you are getting warm air flowing into the water pump bay and the service entrance bay when the rear furnace is running.

Leave the water heater on.

If you are living in the coach and make sure a lot of warm air from the furnace is directed into the bays, you will probably have no problems.

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #5 – January 31, 2011, 10:24:26 am

Thanks for all the suggestions. I've never looked for the bay vents, so that is on the list for today. The bubble wrap sounds like a great idea and given that we are moving, we have plenty of it.

George

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #6 – January 31, 2011, 10:41:34 am

George. Do you have an ice-maker in the fridge? If so, put a 75W light bulb in the outdoor fridge compartment. There is a duplex outlet there, nice and handy, in fact, there may be two, if so, one will be on the inverter, the other one won't.

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #7 – January 31, 2011, 08:19:08 pm

Thanks again for all the input. This is what I did... see the attached. I might get a light for the ice maker compartment and take out insulation from the refrigerator compartment.

George

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #8 – February 01, 2011, 08:53:55 am

I took mine to the upholstry shop Saturday and wouldn't you know this week is supposed to be our coldest of the year. I would have waited if i'd known. It will be inside but unheated and we are looking for a 2 or 3 days in the teens in Texarkana. I did drain it before taking it and also drained the hot water heater. I let the pump run until I was afraid of burning it up with lack of water. Still I can't rest for wondering if some water has remained in a loop or someplace so I am going over this morning and lite the rear furnace. I know the young man that owns the place is going to assure me there is no need and he wouldn't worry about it. I wouldn't worry about it either if it were his instead of mine. I'm bad about over killing something but I despise problems that can be avoided.

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #9 – February 01, 2011, 10:21:34 am

There are places where the water just does not drain due to loops in the lines, etc. For example, the toilet. If the water in the lines there freeze, you will need a new toilet. The washer/drier, if you have one, is another appliance that needs RV antifreeze in the lines. The grease traps you can take care of by dropping some RV anti freeze.

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #10 – February 01, 2011, 03:38:55 pm

I think you are right Peter, If I had my rig at home I can stay on top of it because I will run enough heat sources that it is not going to freeze, not on my watch. Being 40 miles away is another story. I lit my rear furnace and told the young man to be positive he closed all bay doors before closing tonight and latch them. I drained the system as I said earlier but I don't trust what I cant see. I swear the older I get the more I fret and try to prevent. Wish I had waited till spring before taking it. Worry to much but if crap can happen it will happen to me. George I hope we both get out of this freeze with out busting something and every one else as well.

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #11 – February 02, 2011, 12:46:20 pm

Early this morning the temp outside was 9 degrees with a brisk wind from the east. Here are the temps in the various bays were we have sensors.

Water bay (water manifold, pump, etc)....45.1 degrees
Propane bag....34.9
HWH, electronics bay....39.4
Utility bay....48.8

I think the utility bay also gets heat from the rear furnace. See the attached image...there are two small diameter ducts coming out of that furnace. This is the size I found in the water bay.

So everything seems OK. I did put a light in the refrigerator compartment, but I don't have any temperature sensor there. Tonight the low is expected to be 4 degrees.

George

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #12 – February 02, 2011, 01:00:06 pm

It looks like you are doing fine in the cold. The temperatures in the bays look good. Be sure to check the temperatures high and low in the bays. I found that when the outside temperature was about 5F, the top of the service bay could be at 85F while a heater was running, while the bottom was below freezing. I tried to direct the warm air toward the bottoms of the bays. With your diligent attention, you will do great!

What a handsome coach it is, as it looks out across the dessert.

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #13 – February 02, 2011, 07:23:40 pm

Not to worry,,,,propane will not freeze till around fifty below,,hehehe central fla now. Good luck and safe travels.

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #14 – February 03, 2011, 05:56:31 pm

Quote from: sgkarnes – February 02, 2011, 07:23:40 pm

Not to worry,,,,propane will not freeze till around fifty below,,hehehe central fla now. Good luck and safe travels.

However, most of the gas sold near the border CA, AZ, NM, TX is NOT propane but butane or a mix. It will freeze at a higher temperature.

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #15 – February 03, 2011, 06:46:01 pm

This morning the temp was -7 F! The inside of the coach was fine, but early this morning water had frozen somewhere in the system. I think it was somewhere in the water manifold area since this gets less heat than the water pump from the rear furnace. I moved a temp sensor into this area and there is usually about a 10-20 degree difference between the sensor next to the water pump and the one next to the manifold.

I noticed the frozen pipe problem when I turned on the water pump about 4am. The light came on, but it did not run. Later in the morning I reworked my insulation in the manifold area and with an outside temp of 16, whatever had frozen is now thawed. The water pump came on and shut off when the faucet was closed. So I guess we don't have a leak. Dodged the bullet!

This weather is very unusual for this area of southern New Mexico. There are a lot of houses in the area with frozen pipes. In some ways we are better off in the coach. We had several rolling blackouts yesterday as El Paso Electric tried to cope with the demand for power. At least we had lights and furnace when the 110v was out. The blackouts were only about 20-30 minutes so I didn't use the generator.

Tonight we expect only a low of about 10. Funny how that doesn't seem so bad now that we have experienced -7.

George

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #16 – February 03, 2011, 06:53:17 pm

Quote from: George Hatfield – February 03, 2011, 06:46:01 pm

...

Tonight we expect only a low of about 10. Funny how that doesn't seem so bad now that we have experienced -7.

George

You are quickly becoming an expert regarding some challenging situations. Congratulations! (I think ...)

Sometimes expertise gained from adversity is more than we would like to have.

Our Davis weather station is on the 'net at Piney Creek WX Station Piney Creek, Bellville, TX 77418 Local Weather Conditions.

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #17 – February 03, 2011, 06:57:28 pm

George,
Looks like your planning worked pretty well. It is hard to be 100% in first time situations. I am glad you dodged the bullet -- er, ice cube.

George (the unfrozen)

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #18 – February 04, 2011, 01:30:20 pm

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – February 03, 2011, 06:53:17 pm

Quote from: George Hatfield – February 03, 2011, 06:46:01 pm
...

Tonight we expect only a low of about 10. Funny how that doesn't seem so bad now that we have experienced -7.

George

You are quickly becoming an expert regarding some challenging situations. Congratulations! (I think ...)

Sometimes expertise gained from adversity is more than we would like to have.

Our Davis weather station is on the 'net at Piney Creek WX Station Piney Creek, Bellville, TX 77418 Local Weather Conditions.

I was always told that adversity builds character. I now have way more character than I ever wanted and if Dave is right, far too much expertise in way too many areas as well.

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #19 – February 07, 2011, 08:56:30 pm

Quote from: dub – February 01, 2011, 03:38:55 pm

Being 40 miles away is another story. I lit my rear furnace and told the young man to be positive he closed all bay doors before closing tonight and latch them.

Bumping this - Dub and George - did y'all make it through the freeze OK? Our community had lots of frozen pipes this week and I was thinking of you.

Michelle

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #20 – February 07, 2011, 11:15:02 pm

Yes, we made it. The weather is back to normal and there appears to be no damage to the coach from the -7 degree night. Lessons learned....

1. In our coach, the heat to the bays (water pump/water manifold and utility bays) comes from the rear gas furnace (no aquahot). Had to keep that furnace going all night....turned up the temp to about 75 to keep it going. Closed off one the regular vents to force more hot air into the bays.

2. I put extra insulation in both of the heated bays which I think helped, but one has to be careful not to block or restrict the forced air heat coming from the furnace. I think that was a factor in the freezing of the water manifold. When the manifold froze, the main symptom was that the water pump would not run. It thawed the next day and the water pump/water system have worked normally since then. I had temperature sensors in both of the heated compartments which helped in monitoring the situation.

3. I put a work light in the refrigerator compartment to provide heat to the ice maker. I don't know if there is a problem with the ice maker since we don't use it. We only used the electric refrigerator and not the propane. I was concerned that the work light might get too hot with the propane system running. In addition to the light (75watt), I also put some fiberglass batting insulation in that area to help retain heat. I removed the paper backing.

4. The coach itself was quite warm, especially with the rear furnace running essentially full time. We augmented the propane furnaces with a 1500 watt cube heater (110volt). We noticed quite a bit of cold air coming in around some of the windows. So we sealed them with rolled towels at their base.

5. During the coldest period, many areas in southern New Mexico and east Texas experienced rolling blackouts because the utilities could not meet the demand. These lasted up to an hour. Most areas had at least two per day. Being in the coach was actually an advantage over our neighbors in their homes.... at least we had lights and the furnaces continued to run during the blackouts.

Overall, it was a nerve racking experience, but we made it through OK. I kept thinking about what we would do if that rear furnace went out. But it didn't. As usual the forum was a big help with lots of suggestions. Great group! We were certainly not alone. I called Foretravel once to get some advice about the water pump problem and they were great too. By the way, the circuit breaker for the water pump is on the large DC panel in the electronics bay.

That is about it. Next week head for Texas and then on to North Carolina for most of March. Hopefully the weather will be warmer!

George

P.S. Lots of frozen pipes in this area too. One of my neighbors called to get a plumber for an unrelated problem.... he was booked until sometime in May.

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #21 – February 08, 2011, 08:55:43 am

I don't know yet Michelle because my coach has been in Texarkana since,having apholstery work done. It has been inside a shop but with no heat with rear furnace still burning I hope. We have had pretty much the same weather as you have had in the Metro plex so there has been some cold weather. I was supposed pick it up tomorrow but we could get 4 to 6 in of snow tonight and the area I will have to back the coach out on could get spungey. I will sure be glad to get it home. I don't like it being out of my hands especially in this weather.

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #22 – February 08, 2011, 09:11:07 am

George Hatfield sets a really good example that many of us would do well to follow.
George always does a wrap up on his findings, and it is clear to see that he re-reads his responses before posting so that they are clear and easy to understand. Excellent report, George. I always learn something from you.

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #23 – February 08, 2011, 09:31:23 am

George,
Just curious on about how much propane did you use during the cold weather. My old Winnebago would not last a week on it's small tank if it was in the 30's, so I would hate to think what it would be at -7!

Glad all was good and no broken pipes. I went to the hardware store in Fredericksburg (TX) and you couldn't make it down the plumbing aisle.

Thanks,

Re: Need advice....it is going to be in the lower teens later this week

Reply #24 – February 08, 2011, 10:03:35 am

George does do a fine job of posting, I notice that many do. I wish that I could take the time to construct a more organized and clear post but when I am on I am always at my office working and it is usually without exception that my secretary presents me with work issues just when I am in the middle of playing.

I hate it when that happens. I hope members will consider that and not think of me as being lazy and careless.

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