Engine Compartment insulation

Topic: Engine Compartment insulation (Read 3210 times) previous topic - next topic

Engine Compartment insulation

February 05, 2011, 07:58:16 pm

Hello all, has anyone replaced the insulation in their engine and generator compartment? If so what material did you use? Also has anyone removed the fiberglass cover from their front step, mine is not riveted. Thanks

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #1 – February 05, 2011, 10:21:37 pm

Bruce I like the newer 2000 year plus styles that use the quilted blanket style. I too replaced my insulation and I used the Dynamat and Dynaliner the latter one is nearest the engine and is self stick for engine bays and I used the Dynamat for sound deadening. They both are expensive but together well worth it. Now you can easily hold a conversation or watch tv in the bedroom while in motion.
If you decide to buy either Summit Racing Equipment has good prices. Thanks Kerry

Here is a link to some good info on sound deadeners... http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #2 – February 06, 2011, 11:06:32 am

FT replaced my genny compartment insulation when the disintegrating foam started plugging the air filter. The new stuff is a heavy, aluminum-covered sandwich material and was quite expensive. The job took most of a day for an expert, as the generator had to be removed with a forklift. Scraping off the old stuff was a mess. Every seam was sealed with aluminum tape. I also had them do some repairs on the rear of the generator while it was out, like replacing a melting intake manifold, which I never would have seen.

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #3 – February 06, 2011, 11:43:00 am

Brett,
Do you remember the ball park cost? I noticed in November that the foam around our generator is beginning to crumble.

Thanks

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #4 – February 07, 2011, 07:22:23 am

George,

As I recall, replacing the generator compartment insulation cost about $700, but that might have included some generator maintenance items.

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #5 – February 07, 2011, 12:00:16 pm

Thanks, Brett,
Not as bad as I thought.
George

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #6 – February 07, 2011, 12:18:52 pm

Quote from: George Stoltz – February 06, 2011, 11:43:00 am

Brett,
Do you remember the ball park cost? I noticed in November that the foam around our generator is beginning to crumble.

Thanks

George,
Two years ago the foil-surfaced foam-lead (thermo-acoustic) insulation cost about $400 per 4'X8' sheet. The engine and generator compartments together used 3 1/2 sheets. Total hours (including removing the generator with a transmission lift) was 22 hours at $95/hr. Not a cheap task but necessary.

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #7 – February 07, 2011, 07:53:32 pm

I did my engine comapartment myself - still need to do the generator. I did it 6 years ago and used the foiled surface foam with an inner layer of loaded vinyl. McMaster-Carr catalog is a good source of information and has a lot of options to look at (including the quilted fabric)- but not usually the best price for material. I ended up purchasing the foam at a marine store. Bought all the other material (large plastics washers and foil tape) on McMaster. Pay attention to temperature limits - I have a blanket on my exhaust system so it wasn't so critical. Only thing I was disappointed in is the foil tape I put on the edges of the foam material didn't stick all that great over the years.

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #8 – February 08, 2011, 09:56:10 am

John,
Very professional job on the insulation. Do you have any concerns about the blanket on the turbo? I just did not know if that would increase it's internal heat. Do you plan on using the same foil on the generator compartment?

Thanks,

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #9 – February 08, 2011, 12:00:49 pm

Quote from: Don Hay – February 07, 2011, 12:18:52 pm

Two years ago the foil-surfaced foam-lead (thermo-acoustic) insulation cost about $400 per 4'X8' sheet. The engine and generator compartments together used 3 1/2 sheets. Total hours (including removing the generator with a transmission lift) was 22 hours at $95/hr. Not a cheap task but necessary.

Don, did the new generator insulation help reduce interior noise much?

My 93, U300 10K Powertech generator is very noisy inside the coach when running. You can feel vibration in the floor. It is quiet outside of the coach but very noisy inside. I have inspected the urethane vibration dampers on the genie and they appear to be in good shape. When manually shaking the genie, you cannot feel any metal to metal and the genie base is free to move so I am thinking the problem is either with the box insulation or that the exhaust pipe is touching the chassis somewhere.

I have had it in to MOT and they could not find the cause. Does anybody have an idea or had a similar problem?

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #10 – February 08, 2011, 03:19:16 pm

Quote

Do you have any concerns about the blanket on the turbo? I just did not know if that would increase it's internal heat. Do you plan on using the same foil on the generator compartment?

No concerns about the blanket on the turbo. The blanket system is supposed to retain the heat from the exhaust manifold to turbo to maximize turbo boost. The oil flow to the turbo keeps the bearings cool while running and of course I'm always conscience of a cool down period if the engine has just been running hard. I added the blanket around 9 years ago to help with engine overheating - but it didn't seem to help that problem. I didn't notice any performance improvement nor does the engine seem quieter.

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #11 – February 14, 2011, 12:29:35 pm

Quote

Do you plan on using the same foil on the generator compartment?

Sorry I didn't answer your second question the first time. Yes I think I'll use the same material, unless I learn of something better. I wasn't expecting to remove the generator as was mentioned what FT does in a post above. It's going to be something I'll have to think about now.

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #12 – February 21, 2011, 05:42:10 am

Kent, take a look at the surge/ water tank on your gen(if you have a remote radiator) it's the tank where you fill the coolant. I had several welds broken/mounting brackets broken on mine causing it rattle.

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #13 – February 01, 2013, 10:31:47 am

I like the turbo blanket idea....where do you get these? Thanks!

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #14 – February 01, 2013, 10:50:12 am

This is where I purchased my turbo wrap: Advanced Thermal Products

As for my generator compartment, I replaced the insulation two years ago. The job took about two weeks to accomplish because I had to wait for the generator tray to come back from the powder coating shop.

- Four hours to remove generator.
- One day to remove all of the old material and clean the surfaces.
- Four hours to install new material.
- One day to re-install generator.

I was able to remove and install my generator using "muscle" as my generator is the small 8.0kw variety.

I purchased my sound/heat proofing material from Boat Insulation marine soundproofing noise attenuation vinyl foam boat supplies

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #15 – February 01, 2013, 11:00:35 am

I purchased mine from Advanced Thermal Products too.
It included pieces for each manifold, the two pipes that rise from the manifolds to the turbo, the turbo transition, as well as for the actual turbo (6 pieces total).
Invoice info:
p/n's: 885D4800 thru 885D4805, $742 back in 2004
The manifold pieces are a real pain to install, the others very easy.
If I were to buy one today I would shop around on the web and make a few phone calls.

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #16 – February 01, 2013, 08:57:49 pm

Wow, seems a little pricey! What are the benefits of wraping the turbo in the blanket? Could you just use a wrap that is used for motorcycle exhaust pipes? I am not familiar with doing this at all....any information you can give me would be appreciated....thanks!

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #17 – February 01, 2013, 09:01:05 pm

The heavy insulation is used on many indoor mounted generator exhaust systems to get the heat out of the room and into the exhaust outside, so I am assuming that would be the same reason, get the heat from the turbo and exhaust manifold outside.
We do all indoor mounted gensets for this reason.
Dave M

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #18 – February 01, 2013, 09:30:58 pm

The Foam that's referenced here is "Engine Compartment Foam" it has sound deading qualities, it's fire resistant and covered with a silver Mylar to make clean up easy. I would suggest looking in any big city phone under "Rubber Goods" for a source. It's not cheap .

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #19 – February 02, 2013, 08:54:28 am

Love the generator insulation and clean up, well done!

a coach that nice screams out for the headlight upgrade..... n:-)

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #20 – February 02, 2013, 02:20:16 pm

Quote

What are the benefits of wrapping the turbo in the blanket?

I added it to mine to help mitigate a cooling problem I had, but I have a rear radiator where the incoming air for the radiator passes over the engine. Not applicable if you have a side radiator (1992+). The most certain thing it does is help minimize a fire hazard if you you have a fuel or oil leak that can land on a hot exhaust part. Another claimed reason is it will make your bed cooler after a days driving in summer. Yet another claim is it will cut down on the noise. I have not noticed any difference with the last two claims.
Of course, there's the reason where it will protect the insulation on the bottom of the bed deck if that insulation cannot handle the turbo temperatures without it.

Quote

Could you just use a wrap that is used for motorcycle exhaust pipes?

I don't think there's any fundamental reason why you couldn't use pipe wrap but wrapping the turbo housing effectively could be the real challenge due to it's shape and it's the part that needs it the most. While the pipes get hot, it's the turbo that sees the highest heat. Note that the turbo blanket insulation is about 3/4" thick where most pipe wrap is much thinner but could be applied in multiple layers. Pipe wrap will be harder to remove/reinstall. Three years after I installed my blanket I had to remove it for a turbo rebuild (bearing whine) and for a cracked exhaust manifold (not uncommon for these engines). You could by just buy the turbo portion (probably about $150) since it's the hottest and closest to the bed and use wrap elsewhere. I like the idea of the wrap - I think I'll put it on my to-do list for the exhaust piping after the turbo.

Another possibility is using something that was mentioned by another owner: "kaowool" I've never used it but it looks like it's the same insulation used inside turbo blankets. You could use a piece (say a 2 ft square) against the bed bottom topped with a thin piece of sheet metal held by screws. Just an idea.
I also recall seeing a blanket like product that you moisten and form over the part and then either let it dry or heat it to dry and it becomes a rigid part. But I can't remember the name.

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #21 – February 02, 2013, 04:45:47 pm

It also increases the efficiency of the engine by concentrating the heat to the exhaust stream.

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #22 – February 02, 2013, 09:57:38 pm

Thanks guys...seem like some other good options out there. I think I will explore wraping the exhaust with the same heat resistant tape used on motorcycle pipes. I also like the idea of just attaching a 2' square piece of the blanket to the underside of the be frame and topping it with sheet meter to hold it in place....seems like a lot easier than wraping the turbo itself.

One more item.....my Detroit 6V92 seems to run hot when towing. I have a right rear side radiator on my '93 GV. Seems it runs at 200 maybe 210-220 in summer on flat road. I have had the radiator checked out and everything is OK. Is this normal range to run. I never let the temp get in the "red zone" without stopping. In cooler weather it runs around 180-190......any comments or thoughts on this issue?

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #23 – February 03, 2013, 02:02:21 pm

First check your engine block temp with a laser thermometer to varify actual eng temp then persue possible reasons if it is to high. Ronald Boyd

Re: Engine Compartment insulation

Reply #24 – February 03, 2013, 11:48:59 pm

Quote from: Steve Mudd – February 02, 2013, 09:57:38 pm

Thanks guys...seem like some other good options out there. I think I will explore wraping the exhaust with the same heat resistant tape used on motorcycle pipes. I also like the idea of just attaching a 2' square piece of the blanket to the underside of the be frame and topping it with sheet meter to hold it in place....seems like a lot easier than wraping the turbo itself.

One more item.....my Detroit 6V92 seems to run hot when towing. I have a right rear side radiator on my '93 GV. Seems it runs at 200 maybe 210-220 in summer on flat road. I have had the radiator checked out and everything is OK. Is this normal range to run. I never let the temp get in the "red zone" without stopping. In cooler weather it runs around 180-190......any comments or thoughts on this issue?

Our U300 runs right on the thermostat on flat roads with or without toad at any speed. Going up a grade is a different story with 2nd gear ascents sometime necessary to keep the temp down. I don't like to go above 200 and at 210, I really gear down. Reading Detroit boat forums is a good primer on operating temps and engine longevity.

You may have a gauge or sender problem giving you inaccurate readings. There are several threaded fittings that an test gauge can be installed into. The passenger's side cylinder head comes to mind and is visible when you open the engine door.

The U300 with 350 HP is about max power for that size radiator in the side location. My Buffalo bus had a much larger radiator with one big fan. The temp never moved above the thermostat temp no matter how hot the weather and/or grade. On the other hand, the 8V-71 only had 235 HP.

Several owners have fitted their coaches with a pump, pvc and several mist nozzles to spray water on the face (outside) of the radiator. Another member installed a couple of radiators up front on his Cummins engined coach so the problem is not exclusive to Detroits. Here is a quote from an experienced Detroit boat operator on a Detroit boat forum: "High coolant temperature - for Detroits these should ring at 195F, which is a "NEVER EXCEED" temperature. Warning alarms at 205 are set too high - they're great if you want to know that you just cracked a cylinder head, but useless to actually AVOID damage." Naturally, the quote is for operation over hours at cruising speed and with a 6V-92TA producing over 500 HP max but is still a voice of experience to be considered.

Pierce

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