check your radiators

Topic: check your radiators (Read 3285 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: check your radiators

Reply #25 – September 02, 2011, 07:19:03 pm

well almost there as I have the side off and now to take off the CAC. I will then take it to the experts on Tuesday.(holiday weekend here) Lots of leaves dropped down and now I can give the whole thing a REAL good clean. Thanks again Brett for convincing me.
John

Re: check your radiators

Reply #26 – September 02, 2011, 07:24:00 pm

John, Did the screws that hold the trim strip on also hold the fibreglass panel on ? I THOUGHT that the trim strip would have to be removed to get at the screws that hold the fibreglass on. I hope its that simple.
Gary B

Re: check your radiators

Reply #27 – September 02, 2011, 09:00:13 pm

yes Gary you first take off the trim strip then there are 3 screws holding the panel in place at the top and some down the left hand side of the small door behind tyre. The panels come off easy and I had taken the other side off a few weeks ago to remove muffler as with my bad back I could not crawl under. Lots more room to work as well.
Now I have the CAC off and seperated the coolers and there is a fair amount of debris between them all so actually this is great to be able to clean. Now have to wait for the repair next week. I had a tough time moving things as I have had a cast on my arm and wrist since sunday. Tore some tendon and muscle !!! Ah well its off now

Re: check your radiators

Reply #28 – September 04, 2011, 09:33:37 am

Howdy John,
thanks for this...Great photos and descriptions...I'm moving this project up on the "to do list".
Good Luck with your arm and wrist. Dave Abel

Re: check your radiators

Reply #29 – September 04, 2011, 12:56:48 pm

regarding this subject, I would suggest to all that have same set up for rads etc, to check that they do not have a similar problem that I found on ours. They are most probably all mounted the same and if the bolt came loose on mine it can happen to others too. Look thru' the grille and make sure that the small cooler rad that sits at top of CAC is still held clear (gap is about 1 1/2" from CAC). I did not notice the problem till I took off the grille but it can be seen thru it. I strongly advise all to check it out, or you will be doing what I am.
John

Re: check your radiators

Reply #30 – September 06, 2011, 03:11:49 pm

Well I decided to take it too my local Aluminum welding shop who does marvelous jobs (I am learning from him) and he said that he would not touch it as he has tried before and due to thin wall and dirt inside it just blows bigger holes in !! So I have to see what the rad shop says ( closed today) and I may just fininsh up doing it myself with epoxy as I thought first. I have contacted FT to see what make etc and replacement cost. Good job I have time on my side. Brett, any leads on replacement make from you??
John

Re: check your radiators

Reply #31 – September 06, 2011, 04:10:52 pm

Quote from: John Haygarth – September 04, 2011, 12:56:48 pm

regarding this subject, I would suggest to all that have same set up for rads etc, to check that they do not have a similar problem that I found on ours. They are most probably all mounted the same and if the bolt came loose on mine it can happen to others too. Look thru' the grille and make sure that the small cooler rad that sits at top of CAC is still held clear (gap is about 1 1/2" from CAC). I did not notice the problem till I took off the grille but it can be seen thru it. I strongly advise all to check it out, or you will be doing what I am.
John

Just pulled the grill off ours to clean the CAC and radiator and check bolts, and discovered both top bolts holding the CAC in place were loose or out! Bolts for the other cooler were tight. Important to check them periodically!

Re: check your radiators

Reply #32 – September 06, 2011, 07:08:37 pm

I was at the coach today replacing a belt tensioner, and decided to take a peak at the radiator. I found that it was possible to get a bit of a look between the CAC and the radiator from both the front and rear. With the door behind the wheels open and by moving some of the rubber aside and using a small flashlight, I could see a few leaves. Not enough room at the rear with the engine door open to get my head in there, but with a mirror I could see some grass. All of it was down near the bottom and not nearly as much as in John's pictures. I haven't had any overheating issues on long climbs, so I'm not in a big hurry to clean it, but someday I will. Over a year ago, I found that one of the CAC mounting bolts had fallen out, but it wasn't lost, still on the piece of rubber below the CAC, so I reinstalled it. Sort of a puzzle as to how the debris gets between the radiator and CAC. I'm guessing it first lands on the CAC, then when the engine is stopped it falls down onto the piece of rubber. Next time the engine is started it gets sucked up behind the CAC and onto the radiator.

Re: check your radiators

Reply #33 – September 06, 2011, 08:18:07 pm

the reason I said for all to check their units for loose bolts etc is because the way FT have installed them into a frame surrounding the rad' it gives only about 1 1/2 threads to hold it all as the metal there is 1/8 thick !!! not a good situation at all. You may be amazed at how they have even stayed somewhat tight after many miles and bumps. This comment of mine to check the bolts is not a lame one as I feel there are many units out there getting ready to come loose. Dave has already found out by my posting it. When replacing or tightening them make sure to use Locktite on threads.
I had an e-mail from FT today saying they (CAC coolers) cannot be repaired so I whent about it to see if I can prove them wrong. I have just finished using a Devcon metal filler and alum'n little backing peices and will wait till morning to see what I think. I figure if it does nor work in a few months or so I will have all the info needed by then to replace it with new, and for $65 cost of filler it may just work. This stuff is machinable so has to be good. I will post pics later.
John

Re: check your radiators

Reply #34 – September 06, 2011, 08:29:31 pm

John, Most radiator shops can repair and test for leaks not only radiators but also the CAC, or after coolers, most CAC units are aluminum and easy to repair. A new updated unit is costly, CAC units come in a few versions, some better than others, meaning better air flow and a better cooling output.
FWIW

Re: check your radiators

Reply #35 – September 06, 2011, 10:27:39 pm

well after having a dissapointing day trying to get it fixed I set about my own repair as noted earlier in my post. FT say it cannot be fixed and talking to a rad shop here and a couple online in your USA they say a new core will have to be put in. The Al shop here said the problem with trying to weld is the carbon deposit on the inside causes a blow back and will create holes bigger than before. He is a very good welder and only does Al work and he would not touch it.
So, I have done what I feel will fix it (but does not look as neat right now) as I am leaving it till morning to really set up and then I will set about filing etc to improve the looks. FT have not got back to me on a replacement price ( they are 3hrs ahead so that will be a factor). I am going to flush it out and first before fitting it and a few mods on the brkt that caused all this mess. Here are my fixes !!!

Re: check your radiators

Reply #36 – September 07, 2011, 06:46:11 am

John, Sorry to learn of the problem, after your sure it is fixed, I would put 30 psi air in it to amke sure it is holding and no other holes/lleaks.

30 psi is the min amount, I would like to see more, about 35, the MY ISM had 26.5 before any mods, with resonator ,it was 29 and with the 500 rating it is now 33, that is the most I have seen on the dusplay, briefly.
Good luck

Re: check your radiators

Reply #37 – September 07, 2011, 08:23:50 am

The company that makes them is in Corpus Christie - Atlas Radiator - 824 N. Chaparral St 78401. I have the blueprint for the radiator and CAC assembly. The CAC part number is 910113. It cost me about $1400 five years ago. You can review my posts on the subject. The CAC is the same now for Unihome and Unicoaches.

Re: check your radiators

Reply #38 – September 07, 2011, 09:20:23 am

Here is the spec sheet. I emailed a copy to Barry Beam.

Re: check your radiators

Reply #39 – September 07, 2011, 11:47:36 am

Several years ago a company was advertising on TV an aluminum solder by sealing holes in the bottom of an aluminum soda can. It might work in a situation like this. There are many youtube videos of the process. Here is one Durafix - 4 If the epoxy repair can not stand the heat, you can probably burn it off and try the solder repair. The technique seemed to rely on the use of a stainless steel brush to get rid of the aluminum oxide just before applying the solder. I have no idea if this is possible, but might be worth a try.

Re: check your radiators

Reply #40 – September 07, 2011, 12:09:03 pm

Jerry that video is great and my neighbour (welder etc) told me he could repair it doing what you have shown, but I was sceptical and did not want to try it and have a further problem !!!! He has worked in the Vineyard business for many years and told me that he could "weld" even aluminum foil by this method and has repaired miles of thin irrigation lines just this same way.
I also got an e-mail back from Devcon the makers of the steel putty I used and their Tech said it would be fine as long as no liquids are present as the one I used does not fair well in liquid. It did not say that on the the label but as we know it is only hot air in CAC. So hope all is going to be well. One thing about were the damage is, is that should this not last too long I can just remove grille and get at it again.
Thanks Dave for the info on supplier etc
John

Re: check your radiators

Reply #41 – September 07, 2011, 03:32:15 pm

Well I did a water fill test and no leaks then made up an air pressure test system and on one end a gauge an the other air line. I left it at 20lbs for a bit then cranked it up to 40 lb for a while then 45 and left it at that. There was no drop at all in 15mins so I concluded it a success. Now to put it all back together. I will be keeping my eyes on it for a while while running the coach.

Re: check your radiators

Reply #42 – September 07, 2011, 04:59:35 pm

woohoo! Beats a couple of grand and a two week wait!

Re: check your radiators

Reply #43 – September 07, 2011, 09:46:11 pm

I agree on the woohoo, and John, I would make real sure you have good hose clamps and are snugged up real good and proper, installing a second right beside the originals would be great also. It is no fun when a hose gets blown off, not only does it get real smokey, but it can be real tuff to get the hose and clamps back on nice and tidy and tight along the side of the road.

ALSO, regarding the repairing your aluminum CAC, and the guy claims it can not be done, That reminds me how some mechanics can not fix anything with everything, while most mechanics can fix anything with nothng or very little.
You gotta laugh sometimes.
FWIW

Re: check your radiators

Reply #44 – September 08, 2011, 07:17:57 am

John,
Thank you for taking the time to document this repair. Excellent information and a great job!

Re: check your radiators

Reply #45 – September 08, 2011, 12:04:17 pm

Rad and CAC back on so I started her up. Runs good and no leaks anywhere after doing leak tests. Will not know till I get on road for a couple days to see how changes affect things (muffler out and now the CAC)
I got a reply from Atlas in C Christi on replacement one as they sell them as Dave H mentioned. 6 week wait and $1550 plus taxes and shipping. SO, I gather with labour and parts I may have saved myself around $2400 !!! I have full confidence in this repair now. While the side panel is off I am going to do what Barry mentions in his post about sealing off the surrounding areas so the air is forced to go thru; the louvreed panel. I am going to get some ind' belting and cut to fit down sides and then attatch it to the bottom pce so it is a complete unit. This should keep all the crap out. I will post pics in case someone else feels like doing it.
By the way FT Parts still have not come back to me with a price on the CAC, and that now is a few days ago I asked !!!

Re: check your radiators

Reply #46 – September 08, 2011, 08:46:49 pm

This has been a very interesting discussion. So much so that I decided to have a look at the passenger side radiators on our 2003, 400 ISL coach. Below is a photo of the stacked radiators. Can someone identify the radiators/heat exchangers that I can't.
A....?
B....this must be the intercooler or charge air cooler given the plumbing from the engine
C...? Can't see this very well, but it is smallish in size and sits between the main engine radiator and the intercooler
D...This is the back radiator and must be the main engine radiator

One interesting thing.....I can't see where debris can accumulate in this setup. There is good access to the bottom of the first three layers. There are even some holes in the bottom covering to let anything that might get below the main radiator to pass out of this space. Is this a different design than the earlier coaches? I checked all the bolts and everything looks secure.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Re: check your radiators

Reply #47 – September 08, 2011, 09:10:07 pm

George,
A is oil cooler for tranny
B. Is CAC ( intercooler aka Charge air cooler)
c. Radiator
This is a nice setup, much easier access than mine.
Gary B

Re: check your radiators

Reply #48 – September 08, 2011, 10:02:22 pm

i thought that "A" was the oil cooler for the engine. At least on mine the tranny cooler is located behind the radiator fans and is a cylindrical unit with four hoses, 2 for coolant and 2 for tranny fluid.

Re: check your radiators

Reply #49 – September 08, 2011, 10:05:03 pm

George,

You are so fortunate that your radiator is so easily accessible, and being accessible makes it easier to clean. Our grill is riveted in place. When we were at Xtreme last year I talked to Rance about replacing the rivets with screws, but that got forgotten.

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