check your radiators

Topic: check your radiators (Read 3285 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: check your radiators

Reply #50 – September 08, 2011, 10:12:31 pm

George your layout is the same as mine but it would have been nice to have the flip up panel. I had to take a side panel off to get at them. The cooler that is between the CAC and main rad is same as well and right now I am not shure what it is for so that makes 4 units the same as mine.
I have concluded that all the crap gets thrown up from the rear duals and that is why it can get up between them all. I have now framed in around the rads with conveyor belting cut to fit around CAC and abutts the fibreglass outside panel and the sides are fastened to the piece that goes across the bottom making a sort of frame. This should address any problems that were there. My louvre panel now will be screwed on instead of the rivets for ease of removal. I put spring clips on the fibreglass panel that take 1/4- 20 screws

Re: check your radiators

Reply #51 – September 08, 2011, 10:23:44 pm

John, I like your thinking, as I have the 01 320 with about the same setup with the rivets holding the side grille on. When I get to Xtreme this fall, I need to ask if they have a slick way of making it a hinged door, or I will use the screw method in place of the rivets.
Also like the belting, know the local Tractor Supply stocks a good belting selection.
ALso glad you took it to 40 psi.
So far, my conversion to 500 hp is holding up well, no heating issues and keeping good intake pressure/boost.
Cheers
Dave M

Re: check your radiators

Reply #52 – September 08, 2011, 10:42:16 pm

Dave, I actually took it to 45lbs for 30 mins.
You know, I may just work on changing that grille to hinged. I will figure how to do it then if I do it I will post pictures. It might be next year before I have the time as there are lots of small jobs to do here and I have to build an outside tool storage shed as Ruth is fed up having to leave her car in the driveway as I have tools everywhere !!
John

Re: check your radiators

Reply #53 – September 09, 2011, 08:49:37 am

Ferlix, You may be right about the engine oil cooler. Sometimes in my dotage I forget that even though these are all FT's they are also all different.

Gary B

Re: check your radiators

Reply #54 – September 09, 2011, 02:04:55 pm

Well this is hopefully my last post on this subject as all is done and who would have known it had even been off. I am pleased with the result and really glad this topic was started as I would most probably have not looked at it in the first place and that would have caused more headaches later.

Re: check your radiators

Reply #55 – September 09, 2011, 03:47:13 pm

Quote from: George Hatfield – September 08, 2011, 08:46:49 pm

Is this a different design than the earlier coaches?

Yes, I do not have a lift up door. The CAC is on the outside and the other cooler/s are between the CAC and engine radiator. I'm not sure how many coolers or heat exchangers are between the CAC and radiator as I have not removed the CAC. Grill is held in place with 6 Phillips head SS sheet metal screws. I replaced an assortment of screws with larger ones of the same size, so it didn't come from the factory that way.

Re: check your radiators

Reply #56 – September 09, 2011, 04:42:44 pm

On ours (99 U270, ISC) there is an outer small cooler which looks like it's the cooler for the hydraulic fluid, then the CAC, and then a small cooler between the CAC and the radiator, which I'm guessing is the engine oil cooler. Our transmission has the standard cylindrical heat exchanger that transfers trans heat to engine coolant.

Someone mentioned that they installed a cooler on the return fuel line, and I think that when I do that I'll put it in front of the CAC below the hydraulic cooler.

Re: check your radiators

Reply #57 – September 09, 2011, 07:23:51 pm

Quote from: Dave Katsuki – September 09, 2011, 04:42:44 pm

Someone mentioned that they installed a cooler on the return fuel line, and I think that when I do that I'll put it in front of the CAC below the hydraulic cooler.

Dave.
That it where our fuel cooler is located and it works well there. Keeps fuel return close to ambient temp.
Pamela & Mike

Re: check your radiators

Reply #58 – September 09, 2011, 11:53:07 pm

Quote from: Pamela & Mike – September 09, 2011, 07:23:51 pm

Dave.
That it where our fuel cooler is located and it works well there. Keeps fuel return close to ambient temp.
Pamela & Mike

That's what I want to do too! Haven't ever measured the temp of the fuel tank after a long trip, but I bet it can get pretty warm from the hot return fuel, and unlike trucks, our tanks are somewhat insulated.

Re: check your radiators

Reply #59 – September 10, 2011, 01:14:39 am

Not quite sure I understand. Why would you want to do this? Cool fuel work better ?? ..Why would Foretravel/Commins not do this if it made any sense? Just questioning?,,,, FWIW

Re: check your radiators

Reply #60 – September 10, 2011, 02:49:07 am

Modern diesel trucks seem to commonly have fuel coolers, and I read in one of the diesel forums that Cummins is requiring them. Now modern diesels generate lots more heat at the injectors than our older ones, but I can imagine that in 100+ deg heat, the fuel in our tanks wouldn't cool much before going back to the engine, and that could be trouble.

One of the arguments made for maintaining 1/4 - 1/3 tank of fuel in our coaches (in addition to not having to prime the fuel system if you run out) is that a smaller amount of fuel in the tank will heat up more quickly from the returning fuel, sending heated fuel back to the injectors, getting hotter, etc., so better to have more fuel remaining in the tank to act as thermal mass.

Re: check your radiators

Reply #61 – September 10, 2011, 10:13:38 am

google 'diesel fuel cooler' and your get mixed answers. Newer diesels are adding coolers on the return lines. Here is a link to install pics of a Flex-A-Lite trans cooler as a fuel cooler for a Jeep CRD. I particularly like his way of protecting his lines from abrasion. So simple, yet I had never considered it! Picasa Web Albums - Steve Sharp - CRD CP3 Fuel ... is the link that references the pics. Fuel Cooler great asset on Common Rail - TDIClub Forums
I belonged to the TDI club for several years when I had my 04 Jetta. Savvy people!

Re: check your radiators

Reply #62 – September 10, 2011, 06:04:58 pm

George,

We should have the same layout .... so here is what I think they are:

A -- Fuel Cooler
B -- Charged Air Cooling System (C.A.C.) (all those 4" diameter pipes you see in the engine compartment)
C -- Hydraulic Fan System Cooler
D -- Radiator

The transmission cooler looks like a tube muffler. Its located behind the cooling fans down at the base of the coach. It gets its cooling fluid from the radiator as well. If you look in the engine compartment at the very lower right rear side of the radiator a 2.5" output goes right to the trans cooler. I tried to take a picture but its not in a great spot.

Quote from: George Hatfield – September 08, 2011, 08:46:49 pm

This has been a very interesting discussion. So much so that I decided to have a look at the passenger side radiators on our 2003, 400 ISL coach. Below is a photo of the stacked radiators. Can someone identify the radiators/heat exchangers that I can't.
A....?
B....this must be the intercooler or charge air cooler given the plumbing from the engine
C...? Can't see this very well, but it is smallish in size and sits between the main engine radiator and the intercooler
D...This is the back radiator and must be the main engine radiator

One interesting thing.....I can't see where debris can accumulate in this setup. There is good access to the bottom of the first three layers. There are even some holes in the bottom covering to let anything that might get below the main radiator to pass out of this space. Is this a different design than the earlier coaches? I checked all the bolts and everything looks secure.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Re: check your radiators

Reply #63 – October 17, 2011, 12:32:24 pm

Wow! Nice job John... I missed this post somehow. So without recapping the whole thread, you drilled out the rivets around your grill and replaced them with screws for easy removal?
Don

Quote from: John Haygarth – September 08, 2011, 10:12:31 pm

George your layout is the same as mine but it would have been nice to have the flip up panel. I had to take a side panel off to get at them. The cooler that is between the CAC and main rad is same as well and right now I am not shure what it is for so that makes 4 units the same as mine.
I have concluded that all the crap gets thrown up from the rear duals and that is why it can get up between them all. I have now framed in around the rads with conveyor belting cut to fit around CAC and abutts the fibreglass outside panel and the sides are fastened to the piece that goes across the bottom making a sort of frame. This should address any problems that were there. My louvre panel now will be screwed on instead of the rivets for ease of removal. I put spring clips on the fibreglass panel that take 1/4- 20 screws

Re: check your radiators

Reply #64 – October 17, 2011, 12:51:02 pm

For those with older coaches with the grills installed with screws directly into the FG body panel, a good option to allow the grill to be removed and reinstalled with no danger of the screw stripping the fiberglass is to affix a strip of aluminum the length of the grill and fit inside of the FG into which the screws are screwed. Hold in place with epoxy or flush mount screws through the FG (two are plenty per length of aluminum strip.

Use the old holes in the FG to drill and then tap the aluminum strap. Paint the heads of ss machine screws while to match coach sides/original screws and use machine screws into threaded aluminum to secure the grill. A little anti-seize on the screws minimizes galvanic corrosion. Makes removing the side grill on our coach a 2 minute operation with no fear of stripping the FG into which the screws tighten.

Brett

Re: check your radiators

Reply #65 – October 17, 2011, 05:04:04 pm

John, thanks for the photos and the play by play. If the epoxy was aluminum filled, I don't think you will have any problems due to heat. Our aluminum filled epoxies would take up to 700 degrees F.

Also, I admit I don't know a lot about diesels but I thought that air going through the CAC was pre-turbo. If so then there shouldn't be much pressure in the CAC. Does the air go through the turbo then into the CAC and then to the intake manifold?

Re: check your radiators

Reply #66 – October 17, 2011, 05:31:04 pm

Kent,

The order in the air system on any diesel with these components is:

Air intake
Air filter
Turbo
CAC
Engine Intake Manifold

The purpose of the CAC is to take hot air (sometimes over 300 degrees F) and reduce it to near ambient temperature. Cooler, denser air gives better MPG, performance and less emissions.

Brett

Re: check your radiators

Reply #67 – October 17, 2011, 06:19:16 pm

Thanks Brett! How much can a CAC cool 300 degree air? I can't imagine it would take it from 300 to ambient.

Re: check your radiators

Reply #68 – October 17, 2011, 06:58:20 pm

Yes, it can.

Look at the surface area of the CAC and the CFM of air going through the whole cooling package.

BTW, two things lead to the 300+ temperature coming out of the turbo: heat transfer from the exhaust in the exhaust side of the turbo-- can be over 1200 degrees F. And, from the Ideal Gas Law, if you compress a gas with all other variables being constant, temperature GOES UP. (PV-nRT).

So, a clogged cooling system can loose you performance and economy long before you see an overheat on the coolant, as higher intake temperatures hurt both.

Brett

Re: check your radiators

Reply #69 – October 17, 2011, 07:15:55 pm

Brett, If I set my alarm on the VMS what would the temp be for a safe margin for the intake air? thanks jc

Re: check your radiators

Reply #70 – October 17, 2011, 07:41:20 pm

My intake manifold temp was 120 starting out, topped 131 in some hills coming into Atlanta on 475 today...

Re: check your radiators

Reply #71 – October 17, 2011, 08:44:04 pm

On my VMSps ISM500, the intake manifold temp runs at or near ambient except when the engine is shut down after a run, when restarted the temp goes up into the 150 range for a few seconds then backs down to ambient or very near it. Stays there during harder pulls So I ASSUME the CAC, tubing, air filter, intake, turbo etc is working good, at the present.
Currently sitting at Xtreme, then MOT.

Re: check your radiators

Reply #72 – October 20, 2011, 01:15:01 am

2 questions regarding the motorhome radiator:

Question 1 - Anyone here have a service contract on their coach?

If so, is the radiator covered under your service contract and if so,
which service contract company are you using.

Question 2 - If you were using solely Distilled water with no additive package in your radiator - what adverse effects could you experience?

Thanks from a newbie.

Robert - Cape Coral, Florida

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Re: check your radiators

Reply #73 – October 20, 2011, 03:26:00 am

Robert, I can not help with question #1, but as to question #2, you do not want to run straight water in the cooling system, while I have no idea about the Distilled water, I do know regular water has too high surface tension and does not cool very well alone. Another way of saying it, regular water is not wet enough. OK, you need some sort of additive (antifreeze is a good one) to make water wetter. Example ever spill water on anything and notice how it piles up, while gasoline will just spread out everywhere as it has a very low/no surface tension ?
The same thing happens in the cooling system just like if you have ever put a pan of water on the stove and heated it, you see all those bubbles around the pan that have air under them, well that is because the water is not wet enough or has too high surface tension. SO, you need some sort of additive to get rid of that condition and make the water wetter so so the liquid makes full contact with the entire metal surfaces to transfer the heat to the radiator.
I am sure there are plenty word smiths, that can describe this much better, I am just an old mechanic.
I would not run straight water, I would run at least 20% antifreeze just to help reduce the surface tension.
Cheers

Re: check your radiators

Reply #74 – October 20, 2011, 08:55:52 am

If you do not run the proper coolant in the cooling system, with your linered engine, you will experience cavitation on the cylinder liners. If this continues, it will erode right through your cylinder walls.

See your Cummins owners manual's section on coolant.

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