Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

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Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

May 18, 2011, 04:35:18 pm

Has anyone retrofitted a 3rd dump valve on our generation coach?

Steve was looking at our dump plumbing and we don't have the length of pipe in the utility bay that those with the 2001 and earlier have. Can't just cut off the old coupler, glue on the parts for a third valve and new coupler, and be good to go, there's just not enough pipe. It looks like we'd have to redo all the plumbing that goes back including the wye and both existing valves.

Looking back I see lots of posts for the previous generation coaches, but not ours.

Michelle

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #1 – May 18, 2011, 05:17:05 pm

Quote from: Steve & Michelle – May 18, 2011, 04:35:18 pm

Has anyone retrofitted a 3rd dump valve on our generation coach?

Steve was looking at our dump plumbing and we don't have the length of pipe in the utility bay that those with the 2001 and earlier have. Can't just cut off the old coupler, glue on the parts for a third valve and new coupler, and be good to go, there's just not enough pipe. It looks like we'd have to redo all the plumbing that goes back including the wye and both existing valves.

Looking back I see lots of posts for the previous generation coaches, but not ours.

Michelle

Michelle,
I removed the Thetford connector and added this adapter for a macerater.
Couldn't the 3rd valve be put on the same way using a different coupling?
It is tight & my macerator just clears the closed door.

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #2 – May 18, 2011, 05:18:37 pm

We had a third valve installed by FOT in March. You are right, there is not a lot of room. With the valve in place I cannot keep the hose connected and close the bay door. That's not a big problem for us since I usually didn't leave it connected anyway. Just connect when I need to dump. Overall, it was a good addition. The back flow flush of the black tank from the gray tank works like a charm.

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #3 – May 18, 2011, 06:14:21 pm

Quote from: George Hatfield – May 18, 2011, 05:18:37 pm

We had a third valve installed by FOT in March. You are right, there is not a lot of room. With the valve in place I cannot keep the hose connected and close the bay door.

That's what we were afraid of. We do leave our sewer hose connected since we tend to stay in places for a month or more and I tend to do 4 loads of laundry a week in the coach.

Back to the drawing board. Steve says he hasn't completely given up, perhaps redesigning the plumbing so the third valve is just on the back side of the wall; another cable-operated model. More to think about.

Michelle

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #4 – May 18, 2011, 06:25:12 pm

The third valve I put on our 1997 looks pretty much like the pictures from Barry and George. Where Barry put on the twist lock valve, I added a third valve with a twist lock fitting. Like George, I can't hook up a hose and close the door all the way. I use a pair of 90 degree twist lock fittings that allow a hose to be hooked up with the top of the door latched and the bottom of the door almost closed, but not latched. I need to have a hose hooked up for effluent from the RO system when we fill the fresh water tank. I put the small effluent hose from the RO filter into a port on the first 90 degree fitting downstream from the third valve, which remains closed except when I dump tanks.

When I dump the tanks, I disconnect the two 90 degree fittings and hook the Polychute hose to the output of the third valve. I go through the drill of back flushing the black water tank with grey water. I've been pleased with the results. I can watch the color and condition of the dumping water in the clear window on the Polychute. After the second back flush, the water from both tanks looks mostly clear with some suds from soap and Dawn.

Having the door closed at the top and almost closed at the bottom might be satisfactory for your situation. If temperatures are above freezing, there shouldn't be a problem. The door will close enough to latch at the top and keep rain out of the bay.

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #5 – May 19, 2011, 07:33:07 pm

Here is another shot of our third valve along with a ruler that shows how far it comes out. I checked to see if it could have been installed closer to the wall. Maybe a 1/4" closer, but not much more than that. Too bad there is not a coupler with more of an angle. I can close the door if I force it, but then it tends to push the hose off the coupler....not good.

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #6 – May 19, 2011, 07:36:08 pm

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – May 18, 2011, 06:25:12 pm

The third valve I put on our 1997 looks pretty much like the pictures from Barry and George. Where Barry put on the twist lock valve, I added a third valve with a twist lock fitting. Like George, I can't hook up a hose and close the door all the way.

Having the door closed at the top and almost closed at the bottom might be satisfactory for your situation.

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, we're often challenged by critters (the red squirrels in Maine are destructive little buggers) so we need to keep everything closed down tight.

Steve hasn't given up engineering a solution yet.

Michelle

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #7 – May 19, 2011, 09:42:43 pm

Quote from: George Hatfield – May 19, 2011, 07:33:07 pm

Here is another shot of our third valve along with a ruler that shows how far it comes out. I checked to see if it could have been installed closer to the wall. Maybe a 1/4" closer, but not much more than that. Too bad there is not a coupler with more of an angle. I can close the door if I force it, but then it tends to push the hose off the coupler....not good.

Thanks for the picture, that helps a lot. There is just not a lot of room in there for everything that is needed. Still considering my options on doing what you have vs something behind the utility bay wall, but from what I have seen of that area that may be even more of a problem.

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #8 – May 19, 2011, 09:53:47 pm

Steve,
Consider cutting some of the hub off of the third valve so that it will fit further in.

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #9 – May 19, 2011, 09:56:50 pm

Steve, I may not fully understand the situation but if the main reason Michelle wants to have a permanent sewer hookup is to do laundry, could you simply hook up a garden hose to one of the Valtera caps that comes with a threaded hose cap on the outside. If you add a third valve I recommend changing over to a Valtera bayonet to make future additions or changes are easier. I think your door might close with this hookup.

Of course if you have a 3" hose coming out the bottom, doesn't that still leave rodent access to the interior of the coach.

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #10 – May 19, 2011, 11:16:46 pm

Quote from: Rick – May 19, 2011, 09:53:47 pm

Steve,
Consider cutting some of the hub off of the third valve so that it will fit further in.

Thats not a bad idea to help save some space in that area, there is more than adequate bonding area so loosing a bit would not be a problem.

Quote from: Kent Speers – May 19, 2011, 09:56:50 pm

Steve, I may not fully understand the situation but if the main reason Michelle wants to have a permanent sewer hookup is to do laundry, could you simply hook up a garden hose to one of the Valtera caps that comes with a threaded hose cap on the outside. If you add a third valve I recommend changing over to a Valtera bayonet to make future additions or changes are easier. I think your door might close with this hookup.

Another interesting suggestion! That is something we could certainly explore, I'm sure there would be some cap configuration that would allow that type of hookup and allow the door to close.

Quote

Of course if you have a 3" hose coming out the bottom, doesn't that still leave rodent access to the interior of the coach.

We have a guard that goes around the sewer hose / water / electric that to date has kept the critters out. Nothing more than a car floor mat with a cutout that fits around the hoses, also provides a nice area to spread moth balls on. Since we have been doing that no critters have gotten in, well via that route

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #11 – May 20, 2011, 09:38:38 am

I bought a Valterra cap with a connector for a garden hose. The idea was to use that for draining the effluent from the RO filter. I decided that the 90 degree fittings and full size sewer hose were a better solution for our situation.

On our coach, it looks like the bay door would close fully with some modification of the steel angle iron that traverses the bottom of the bay door. Another possibility is the installation of a port in the bay door that would allow a hose to come straight out from the third valve. It might be similar to a port that some folk install for a fuel fill port.

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #12 – May 23, 2011, 01:25:03 pm

Steve, this may solve your dilemma on how to get a third valve, Electronic Odor Control Inc - Flush King - Drain & Flush Systems - Camping World.

The ad says it is not a permanent attachment, that it just twists on and off. This way you only have to replace the oversized Thetford bayonet ring with a standard Valtera. Put on the third valve only when you need to dump the black tank.

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #13 – May 23, 2011, 02:37:00 pm

The third valve on our coach is a "twist on" valve. I could remove it and hook a hose directly to the "old" pipe. However, the fitting is so close to the floor of the compartment that the Polychute fitting would not fit. Other Valterra style couplers might fit.

I installed the third valve by cutting off the old pipe about 1/2" from the back wall and installing a Valterra fitting. The third valve simply twists on to the fitting. Clearances are tight.

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #14 – May 23, 2011, 03:04:38 pm

I was looking at the Thetford fittings to see if they make anything that would work with the third valve. The only one that might work is this, which could be used to drain the gray tank with a garden hose. OK for running the washing machine I would think, but not exactly an ideal situation.

Thetford Garden Hose Adapter

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #15 – May 17, 2012, 11:32:55 am

I brought this old topic back since I'm trying to add a third dump valve and have a question.

George, did FOT replace your valves and most of the plumbing to get the third valve on? As you can see in my picture, the Thetford fitting is glued close to the ABS "T", which also is glued right up to the valve, with no pipe exposed. I don't see how anything can be cut out without including the valve.

Michelle, I believe you saw the same problem with yours. Have you progressed on this project?

I wonder if one is likely to have success chipping off the Thetford fitting. The fitting is glued onto a short length of 3" pipe.

Thanks,
Mike
2003 U-295

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #16 – May 17, 2012, 11:43:00 am

Mike,

When we bought our 02 we had MOT install a third valve. The problem is we cannot close the door with the hose hooked up. They did cut the valve. We were told that before we approved the work. Since we don't have a washer and only need to dump once a week it is not a problem for us. Personally, I like to put the sewer hose away even if we could close the door. Do the same with the water hose-fill our tank then disconnect.

Try not to stay in the same place more than a week anyway. FWIW..

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #17 – May 17, 2012, 02:43:55 pm

Mike.... Ditto on Jeff's comments. FOT just added the valve to the outside and yes it does stick out such that one cannot close the bay door when the hose is hooked up. But as with Jeff, this is not a problem for us. I just dump every few days and put everything away. Or I leave the capped hose on the ground and hook up when needed. IMHO, this is well worth the advantages of having a third valve.

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #18 – May 17, 2012, 04:03:48 pm

I just installed a permanent 3rd dump valve. It's a Valterra, with outboard flange that has the bayonet pins, and there is just as much room for hose attachment as before. I use a clear 90 deg extension to the hose, and it fits just fine with the bay door closed.

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #19 – May 17, 2012, 08:31:34 pm

Thanks guys, but my issue isn't the space.

How did you get the Thetford fitting off so the third valve could be added? I don't see how any cutting can be done without having to remove everything, including the existing valve. There's no exposed length of pipe anywhere from the black tank all the way out to that Thetford fitting.

Jeff, you say MOT cut the valve. Do you have any more detail - not sure where I would cut on the valve.

George, if you have more detail on what was done that would be helpful, because I can see from your more recent pictures about lubing the valves that yours is just like mine. Except, of course, that you now have a third valve.

Thanks,
Mike
2003 U-295

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #20 – May 17, 2012, 08:35:41 pm

Well, FOT did the work and the tech that did it really didn't like me within 10 feet of him, so I didn't see much. He did have to install it twice.... I think the bay door didn't close the first time.

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #21 – May 17, 2012, 08:42:42 pm

if it is cutting a fitting out (as in removing a glued fitting) I have done this many times and it is easy to do on PVC or ABS. Use a hacksaw blade and make 3 or 4 careful cuts around the fitting you want off, whether it is male or female, and then either use a small sharp chisel or screwdriver and a hammer and break away the fitting you have cut thru'. It does come apart and if a bit extra is removed just put extra glue in that joint when installing the new one.
If you still have difficulty understanding this let me know and I will take some pictures of me doing it so you see.
John H

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #22 – May 17, 2012, 10:45:47 pm

I added a third valve on our 03 320 by cutting the pipe off very close to the hub on the fitting that protrudes out of the walled section and then took a hack saw blade and every inch or so cit down through the old pipe to the depth of the inside of the hub and then using a sharpened screw driver pried out the pieces of the old pipe. I thengot a male spigot fitting for a valterra dump valve and glued it in with abs glue and then installed a valterra dump valve that I bought at CW that had the ears on it to attatch the hose adaptor on. I was able to install mine so the handle is standing straight up, the dump handle for the sewer valve just clears it. If I can figure out how to send a picture of it I will take a picture tomorrow. It works very well

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #23 – May 17, 2012, 10:49:26 pm

This is exactly what I was referring to. Removing the old piece so a new one can be added without adding to the length.
John

Re: Third dump valve on an '02-'04 generation coach?

Reply #24 – May 18, 2012, 01:15:43 am

OK. I've never tried chipping away a glued fitting before, but I think I'll give it a try. John and Red Tractor (we're about 75% green here), no need for a picture; I know what you mean. The Thetford is a female fitting glued onto the 3" pipe, so that should be easier than if it was a male fitting. The Dremel should be a help. Wish me luck. If this doesn't work I'll be all the way to the black tank, and no one should have to go there!

George, I hate when they won't let you watch. That's usually been my experience at FOT also.

Thanks all,
Mike
2003 U-295

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