Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Topic: Refrigerator not Cooling ??? (Read 3778 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #50 – June 25, 2011, 12:46:23 pm

Bob, thanks for the detail. It surely does sound like there is something amiss with your cooling unit. At those outside temps mine works perfectly. It only acts up when the temps go over 90, maybe 95, certainly 100 degrees.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #51 – June 27, 2011, 06:50:18 pm

Since I found out that I have too much space behind the refrig according to the installation instructions, decided to pull it out and have a look. I sawed the legs off a small table or platform that I already had so that it was the same height as the bottom of the refrig. Just slide it out onto the table. Wasn't hard to do, remove the doors, remove the screws on the front trim strip, a couple of bolts in the back on the floor or shelf that it sits on, disconnect the propane line, and electrical cables, then wiggle it out. Found that FT lined the sides of the cabinet with blue foam. Helps keep the refrig cool. In the rear lower corners they also installed a thin piece of gel coated fiberglass. At the top of the burner chimney the heat had melted the foam a little bit. Don't know how close it was to catching fire or if the foam is flammable. It looks like the same stuff you can buy at Lowes or Home Depot that has flammable printed on every sheet. The outside of the refrig that you do not see is covered with a tar paper like material that has a silver metallic coating on the outside. The piece covering the back had curled up along the edges where it wasn't held in place by sheet metal, mainly at the bottom where the control boards, propane valve, and burner are located. Where it is curled up there is a gap in the insulation, on the left side looking at the back there are control wires in the gap. The curled up part is stiff and brittle. I think it could be repaired by trimming off the curl, squirt some foam in the gap, trim it flat after it hardens, and cover with a piece of duct tape or metal tape. However, this refrig is 15 yrs old and I have decided to just replace it with a new one before it quits while I am on a trip. I have a Norcold 682 and the replacement is supposed to be N841 and have the same dimensions. PPL has them for $1090, CW $1530. I'm driving to Houston Wed. in the minivan to pick it up, cheaper than getting it shipped if you don't figure the true cost of driving. I may have to buy some door panels. I have decided that the easiest way to get the right clearance behind the refrig is to install some strips of wood and fasten a piece of sheet metal the width of the compartment from the ceiling to just above the air supply door. I may put some insulation behind the sheet metal. I also found that there was about a 1" gap between the ceiling and the top rear of the refrig, may close that off too so that hot air does not get in the space above the refrig. There was a piece of foam under the front trim that acts as a seal. It has fallen apart.

Now I have to figure out how to get the old one out and the new one in. Looks like the easiest way is to remove the entire window frame over the dining table across from the kitchen stove and counter. The smallest dimension is about 24.5" front to back with doors removed and the glass part of the window is that tall or a little more so the opening is even larger. I don't think it will go out the front door as maximum width is 24" and even with the door removed some of the hinge may be still there. Anyone know for sure if removing the window will or will not work? This is a 96 U270 with the kitchen on the drivers side. Thanks.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #52 – June 27, 2011, 07:19:03 pm

Jerry, Don't know if the dimensions are the same but CW took mine out thru the right front window. Mine is a GV.
CAUTION, CW screwed up the plastic trim on the window as they scraped it and broke the edges off with the reefer going in or out.
I DO NOT RECOMMEND CW FOR ANY INSTALLATION WORK OF ANY KIND.
Sorry to shout so loud.
Gary B

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #53 – June 27, 2011, 10:05:24 pm

Sounds like we have the same floor plan and recently took our Norcold 682 out through the curbside window by our Stressless recliner where we can get our body closer to the window. Seemed better than working over the kitchen table, which we did not want to stress. A forklift was used to carry the fridge out on its side with doors still attached. We have a finished wood wall right next to our fridge hinges, so we taped up a large piece of cardboard to protect the wood.

If your window still has 'runny' gray putty, after it removed, clean off the putty and then use the new 'D' weathers-trip-like new windows are using. Xtreme Graphics in Nacogdoches will sell you some. Motion Windows has instructions on window removal and re-installation.
www.motionwindows.com/installation-guide.pdf a

Our Norcold fridg also was original and working just fine.

Additional insulation is always a good idea.

Barry & Cindy

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #54 – June 29, 2011, 09:48:14 pm

Quote from: Kent Speers – June 25, 2011, 12:46:23 pm

At those outside temps mine works perfectly. It only acts up when the temps go over 90, maybe 95, certainly 100 degrees.

Every summer that I go out and the temperature gets above 100 degrees I have the same problem as you.
This year I left earlier and the temps were not as severe yet and the fridge worked fine.
Then on the way home I hit 110 degrees in Holbrook & Needles CA. and up went the refer temp to over 50 degrees.
I did check to see if I had that foam on the wall behind refer & I do. I never noticed it before.
But there is a gap on one side of refer and wall that is not filled in but I dont see a way to get a piece of foam in there from bottom or top.
I dont think the refer can compensate for pulling in 100 degree outside air even with the fans working.
I have already replaced the cooling unit last year.
We did notice that when my wife put some frozen food in the refer to thaw that the temp did go down.
I wont get a chance until next year but I was thinking of having a couple of "non-toxic gel Freezer Ice Packs" to rotate from the freezer and see if that might be enough to keep it near temperature.
If you are still in that heat give it a try and tell us if it works.
The other think I was thinking of was putting an awning over the refer vent as much as I would not like one there or a makeshift cover that still allows the air from underneath.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #55 – June 29, 2011, 10:03:32 pm

Quote from: Barry Beam – June 29, 2011, 09:48:14 pm

Every summer that I go out and the temperature gets above 100 degrees I have the same problem as you.
This year I left earlier and the temps were not as severe yet and the fridge worked fine.
Then on the way home I hit 110 degrees in Holbrook & Needles CA. and up went the refer temp to over 50 degrees.
I did check to see if I had that foam on the wall behind refer & I do. I never noticed it before.

Barry,

Now that we're across and in a site with the afternoon sun hitting the fridge, I noticed the sound of a fan running behind our fridge. Steve reminded me that we have one - it got bumped during the icemaker line replacement.

I looked in all our paperwork and the manual for the NDR-1492 and see no mention of one. Do you have such a fan? I'm wondering in the original owner of our coach added it at some point in the year he had it.

Michelle

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #56 – June 29, 2011, 10:11:48 pm

Quote from: Steve & Michelle – June 29, 2011, 10:03:32 pm

Quote from: Barry Beam – June 29, 2011, 09:48:14 pm

Every summer that I go out and the temperature gets above 100 degrees I have the same problem as you.
This year I left earlier and the temps were not as severe yet and the fridge worked fine.
Then on the way home I hit 110 degrees in Holbrook & Needles CA. and up went the refer temp to over 50 degrees.
I did check to see if I had that foam on the wall behind refer & I do. I never noticed it before.

Barry,

Now that we're across and in a site with the afternoon sun hitting the fridge, I noticed the sound of a fan running behind our fridge. Steve reminded me that we have one - it got bumped during the icemaker line replacement.

I looked in all our paperwork and the manual for the NDR-1492 and see no mention of one. Do you have such a fan? I'm wondering in the original owner of our coach added it at some point in the year he had it.

Michelle

i do have double fans that were reinstalled when they put in my new cooling unit.
Photos here will show where they are installed.

Replacing Refrigerator Cooling Unit

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #57 – June 29, 2011, 10:44:18 pm

Barry: Sounds like a great idea with the blue ice or gel packs. I plan to carry some of these in my freezer in my storage bay. If the heat brings my temp up in the fridge I can move some of these over there. Great idea. I also got a couple of the small battery operated fans to help also during these hot days. Tks Dan Stansel 02/40/U295

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #58 – June 29, 2011, 11:26:04 pm

I hate to throw a wet blanket on the gel packs but we tried adding ice to the fridge. No help. We are still very much in the heat, 103 today. However, I have found a fix. I installed two of the Valterra Fridge fans setting right on top of the heat exchanger. My Fridge temps have been 33 degrees up on the top of the fridge fins and 46 on the bottom of the fridge section near the door, the warmest part of the fridge. Everything above that spot seems to be cool enough even in the late afternoon. The fridge side of the coach is facing north so it is not getting direct sunlight at that time.

I also have purchased flame retardant foam and made a baffle to force the air through the fins on the heat exchanger. My hope is that I won't need to use the fans that often but my experience this afternoon was a bit of a shock. With the baffle installed, the fridge actually got warmer than the last few days with just the fans running. One day does not give me enough experience to make a final judgement, but I now will need to test the baffles more thoroughly before I install them permanently. I won't be able to test the baffles further until next week. The coach goes into the shop tomorrow and Friday to get the new bedroom A/C installed.

Once I finalize my Fridge Fixes for hot weather use, I will do a complete write up on my experiences and hopefully some photos.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #59 – June 29, 2011, 11:30:37 pm

For those of us dealing with older refrigerators, don't overlook the gaskets on the doors. New gaskets won't solve the kinds of problems being discussed here, but they will help keep cold air inside and warm air out.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #60 – June 29, 2011, 11:42:55 pm

I thought I should add, the Valterra fans cost about $32, but they are housed in a 4" air tube to improve flow and they come with two automatic thermostats so they can be set up to work automatically. I installed mine with manual switches but these fans are less expensive than good quality muffin fans plus the cost of an automatic switch.

I bought one from Amazon and the other from a local RV dealer. I won't buy another one from Amazon. I paid $32 for second day delivery and the Amazon dealer took 4 days before they shipped it. Total cost $62 vs $32 at the local store. Camping World no longer carries these fans.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #61 – June 30, 2011, 12:17:01 am

Quote from: Kent Speers – June 29, 2011, 11:26:04 pm

I hate to throw a wet blanket on the gel packs but we tried adding ice to the fridge. No help. We are still very much in the heat, 103 today. However, I have found a fix. I installed two of the Valterra Fridge fans setting right on top of the heat exchanger. My Fridge temps have been 33 degrees up on the top of the fridge fins and 46 on the bottom of the fridge section near the door, the warmest part of the fridge. Everything above that spot seems to be cool enough even in the late afternoon. The fridge side of the coach is facing north so it is not getting direct sunlight at that time.

Once I finalize my Fridge Fixes for hot weather use, I will do a complete write up on my experiences and hopefully some photos.

Kent,
I would be curious as to how much of a difference there is when the fridge side is facing the sun & when it is not. If there is any chance of keeping it cool enough when facing the sun side with plus 100 degrees. I dont think there is. I want to see if I need to be concentrating on an awning of some kind.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #62 – June 30, 2011, 08:30:41 am

Not knowing anything about these fridges; I assume the Valterra fan goes outside behind the vented cover. I was looking for install instructions. Where is this posted? Tks DAn Stansel

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #63 – June 30, 2011, 08:37:08 am

We need to remember in much of the US, on June 21st the sun rises as far north of east and sets as far north of west, and is overhead at mid day. Thinking the north side of a coach is shaded is most likely wrong. Think NE and NW.

In the winter the sun will rise and set 90 degrees further south as in SE and SW.

I sell windows and so few people understand compass directions and the differences for sun exposure on their home thru the year. They want north facing skylights, which will overheat all summer.

Shading the refer. wall has to help I would think, as would shading the coach as much as possible.

When I was getting my U225 from Kent last April, his refer. side was on the south side, coach facing west.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #64 – June 30, 2011, 10:02:36 am

Dave, you are way too observant. I have turned the coach around so that I don't get afternoon sun on the front of the coach. I do not get direct sun on the side of the coach in the afternoon but its close.

Barry, my guess is that there is ample insulation to allow increased air flow to offset the heat of the afternoon sun but I'm not sure.

Dan, I just removed the vent cap on the roof of the coach. You will need new 1" putty caulk strip to reattach the vent cap and be sure not to over tighten the screws when reattaching or you will crack the vent cap base. With the cap off, I made L brackets with plumbers strap which comes with the fans. I then drilled small pilot holes then screwed the bracket into the sides of the vent hole. The vent hole is lined with aluminum and a pilot hole must be drilled. The base of my fans are about 1/4" above the fins on the heat exchanger thereby pulling air through the fins. I used two fans but there is room for three. I got my power from a blue 12V wire near the bottom of the refrigerator closet. I stripped the insulation from the wire in a small area with an Exacto knife and soldered a 10 amp, fused 14 gauge wire to the hot 12V wire. I hooked the wires from the fans to the fused hot wire with red butt connectors. Actually, I installed on/off toggle switches to allow me to turn the fans off but that is not required. The fans come with automatic thermal switches that should adequately control when the fans run. I just wanted manual control.

I will give a more detailed explanation of the process once I finalize what is going to work. I'm still playing with baffles to help reduce the use of the fans and I may incorporate the thermal switches when all is said and done.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #65 – June 30, 2011, 11:50:10 am

Bill,

Thanks for the email. Good idea. So, for those with hot weather fridge problems, Bill's idea is to take a couple short lengths of flex ducting and perhaps go down below the fridge into the vacuum compartment (at least that is what it is on mine), put in a couple of inline 12v fans and take the much cooler air out of the coach (that has the forward air on) and push it up behind the fridge. Would not need it at night. On mine, it would only require the lower vacuum door to be open. Probably would be enough cool air so the excess would just go out the normal exterior fridge intake with the rest doing its job on the condenser. The coolest air should be right on the floor just waiting to be used.

I do have a layer of Hardy Backerboard against all sides and roof in the fridge compartment and have had no problems with cooling so far. Thinking back, I have had the entry side exposed to the sun so it may be a problem if the sun were to be on that side.

I do have enough room with my Norcold so I could pull the backerboard off and put a layer of silver backed rigid foam in for a little more insulation from direct sun and then pop the board back in to make it fireproof.

I have a Mac tower in front of me with 7 fans. As it gets hotter, more fans at higher speeds come into play until it sounds like a jet taking off (well almost) so the fan idea sound good (so to speak).

I can see it in my head. Ideas/comments from others? Did I miss anything Bill?

Back to the floor sander for the rest of the day

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #66 – June 30, 2011, 12:01:00 pm

Pierce,
as I see it, the fans below on the coils only force the already heated air faster across the coils. Giving very little cooling effect.
I hope some of the engineers here will comment on that before I start the project.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #67 – June 30, 2011, 12:39:22 pm

Bill,

As I see it, we have radiation, convection and conduction here. The sun beats on the side of the coach, radiates heat into the fridge compartment and onto the back of the fridge itself. Some of the heat is also transfered by conduction from the hot air in the space into the fridge itself. The cool air in your idea would displace the hot air and force it out the top so we are taking a percentage of conduction heating and also mitigating the effects of radiation through the side of the coach. Yes?

My idea of flat white paint on the side of the coach probably won't get many votes.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #68 – June 30, 2011, 01:30:32 pm

I look at it a different way, with the outside temp at 103 degrees and the heat exchanger at 135 degrees, the fans are removing 32 degrees of excess heat, allowing the unit to cool better.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #69 – June 30, 2011, 02:35:17 pm

Quote from: Bill Willett – June 30, 2011, 01:30:32 pm

I look at it a different way, with the outside temp at 103 degrees and the heat exchanger at 135 degrees, the fans are removing 32 degrees of excess heat, allowing the unit to cool better.

Bill,

Yes, but quite a bit of that 103+ heat behind the fridge is soaking through the back & side insulation (in a very large area) and defeating the relatively small area of the evaporators. If the condenser were remotely mounted, that would be exactly true but when you add that heat (the 135 degrees) along with the ambient, I think it is more that the insulation on the back of the fridge can handle and still keep acceptable interior temps. Plus, nothing is sealing off the sides of the fridge so that adds to a larger difference between the interior and exterior temps of the unit on almost all sides except the front. Isolate the fridge better and you are exactly right.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #70 – June 30, 2011, 10:18:28 pm

Bill,
would not the 85 degree temp cool the coils a tiny bit more than the 103 degree's. To some where between ice cold winter and spring and fall?

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #71 – June 30, 2011, 10:35:06 pm

Remember, its temp differential plus air flow rate. If you increase the air flow you will carry away more heat per minute. Natural convection is probably 1-2 CFM, 5 tops. A 20-30 CFM flow rate increase will go a long way against any heat soak.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #72 – July 01, 2011, 08:20:10 am

Quote from: Bill Chaplin – June 30, 2011, 10:18:28 pm

Bill,
would not the 85 degree temp cool the coils a tiny bit more than the 103 degree's. To some where between ice cold winter and spring and fall?

I installed an on off switch just for that occasion.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #73 – July 01, 2011, 08:27:39 am

Just a couple of thoughts after reading all the posts: Doesn't evaporation cool? We used to wrap our beer in wet towels and let the wind pass over. Colder than a fridge! Any way to incorporate this principle?
Second, in the Mideast the use of fretwork on buildings caused air to compress when entering (LOSING HEAT) and expand when leaving the building (TAKING HEAT).
This was a very
passive way to "air condition" buildings.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #74 – July 02, 2011, 09:28:02 pm

Kent -

Here's the follow-up on my experience with a replacement cooling unit you asked for.

New replacement cooling unit installed (warranty work) on new Dometic 52 hours ago. Current data: Freezer 0, Refrigerator 32, and holding steady. Thermistor centered on far right fin. Controls set at 3 on Auto-Electric. No added insulation to fill spaces, no fans. Cooling Unit is no longer almost too hot to touch. It's warm, but easy to handle, and cooler as I reach higher. Daytime ambient temp is 85, nightime around 50.

Hope this helps in some way.

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