Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Topic: Refrigerator not Cooling ??? (Read 3778 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #75 – July 02, 2011, 10:30:50 pm

Kent,

It would seem to me that Bob Mulder has the solution,

"Daytime ambient temp is 85, nightime around 50."

You just need to relocate you, Peggy, Trip and the coach to his area, and I need to follow your lead. Think we are getting all the way down to 79 tonight, and then back up to 100 tomorrow.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #76 – July 02, 2011, 11:33:55 pm

Yessir. We are looking at up to 5 summerish months in the northwest, about 3 winterish months along the Colorado River at Lake Havasu in Arizona, and 2 months or more for taking really long or really slow or really crooked routes in each direction. Not a bad life. Especially in our FT. Even at the current cost of 50 cents per mile for fuel. We live generally between 45 and 85 degrees year round. Agenda is driven substantially by our desire to avoid dramatic seasonal swings in temperature/humidity that seem to correlate with swings in a certain medical condition. Helps that we enjoy the weather, and enjoy the people, in each place.

And I hated not having confidence in my refrigerator. Tossed-out contents 3 times since March during this fiasco. I'm keeping all suggestions about fans and insulation in mind, and will likely still "upgrade" with them, even for moderate ambient temps we usually encounter over the course of a year. Appreciated this timely discussion.

Most folks who visit this area summer/fall seem to like it. Hope you can give it shot sometime.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #77 – July 03, 2011, 08:35:32 am

Bob, thanks for the update. This morning it is 78 degrees at 7:00 AM. Freezer is -4 top shelf, fridge is 24 on top of fins and 36 degrees on the middle shelf. Fridge setting is on 4. This is after installing the two Valterra fans on top of the heat exchanger just under the roof vent, no baffles yet. I also installed the small ebay fridge fan in the interior at the top of the fins.

During the hottest part of the day, 104 yesterday the fridge got up to 42 degrees on the middle shelf and 35 on top of the fins. Freezer never gets over 3 degrees on top shelf. For some reason everything seems to be working better since I took the coach to the RV dealer. I am guessing the bumps encountered on our wonderful Oklahoma roads burped the absorption system a little bit to make it work better.

I still plan to test the baffles next week to see if I can get cooling improvement with a passive baffle system rather than the 12V powered fans.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #78 – July 03, 2011, 08:58:16 am

Then you need to take it on a drive down I-10 from Baton Rouge to Louisiana - it would be like new!

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #79 – July 03, 2011, 02:28:03 pm

Quote from: Kent Speers – July 03, 2011, 08:35:32 am

... I am guessing the bumps encountered on our wonderful Oklahoma roads burped the absorption system a little bit to make it work better.
...

Try US-69 through eastern Oklahoma. That will shake up everything in the coach. To provide a more serious "burping" of the 'fridge would require tumbling it. US-69 is worse than I-40 on the west side of OKC. I was astounded that they could build a relatively new road to be so rough.

The exception is the portion between Texas and the casino near Durant. It's smooth as can be. It provides a smooth ride for Texans to bring their money to the casino.

We tried the route between Kansas City and Bellville via US-69 once. We will only try that again if the memory fades.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #80 – July 03, 2011, 02:36:49 pm

JD, we work very hard at making a new road feel old. We call that the Oklahoma standard for road construction. The Oklahoma Standard for Disaster Response is world class. The Oklahoma standard for road construction is low class.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #81 – July 03, 2011, 03:10:07 pm

You guys have never been to California. We just don't do road construction. If you were on a commercial flight, they would collect all the meal trays and everyone would bring out their rosary beads. We watched the movie 2012 but thought it was like an everyday drive here.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #82 – July 03, 2011, 10:41:42 pm

Hey Kent, I think I just found the cause of your fridge malfunction. I touched the white, west side of our coach at 6:30 tonite (air temp 84 degrees) direct sunlight from 1:00 PM on. I could keep my hand on it, just slightly warm. I then touched the painted on burgandy graphics--almost blistered my hand. So I can just imagine what your black painted coach side would feel like in the Texas heat and sun!! Seems like some kind of reflector/deflector is needed if you can't keep the back side of the refrig out of the sun. Why not some kind of roll-up white or aluminum painted shade that would hook over the fridge top vent and then down the coach side?

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #83 – July 04, 2011, 09:39:14 am

Quote from: nitehawk – July 03, 2011, 10:41:42 pm

Hey Kent, I think I just found the cause of your fridge malfunction. I touched the white, west side of our coach at 6:30 tonite (air temp 84 degrees) direct sunlight from 1:00 PM on. I could keep my hand on it, just slightly warm. I then touched the painted on burgandy graphics--almost blistered my hand. So I can just imagine what your black painted coach side would feel like in the Texas heat and sun!! Seems like some kind of reflector/deflector is needed if you can't keep the back side of the refrig out of the sun. Why not some kind of roll-up white or aluminum painted shade that would hook over the fridge top vent and then down the coach side?

I agree with you as far as shading that vent opening when in direct sun. I dont think the refer can compensate for that 110 degrees coming in the vent. But dont cover the vent with the shade as my experiment shows below. You need that air not to be blocked. I am trying to come up with a angled shade to cover it so air still comes in the bottom. I tried an aluminum sunshade with snaps but in Needles the wind was to high to keep it in place. I need something more solid that can fold up when not in use. Still experimenting.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #84 – July 04, 2011, 11:50:31 am

Certainly direct sun exacerbates the cooing problems but in my case that side of my coach is not exposed to direct sun in the afternoon. My problem was air flow through the fins of the heat exchanger. Right now we are still in 100+ temps in the afternoon but the fridge is staying cool with the assistance of the two Valterra Fridge fans. Its working great now. I will let you know what happens with direct sunlight when we get back on the road.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #85 – July 04, 2011, 12:03:11 pm

In the parking lot at Nac ... having a very hard time getting the fridge to go below 50 after it was shut down for an extended period of time while the icemaker was repaired and made operational in the freezer. We finally extended the large awning to provide shade for most of the day and found room in the outside fridge access compartment to plug in my little bitty $5 Walmart fan. Once it got the added benefit of a full night of 80 degree temps, it has not risen about 40 degrees. Yay!!

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #86 – July 04, 2011, 12:10:41 pm

Carol, one of the tips I have picked up during this discussion is to put a bag or two of ice in the fridge to help it with its initial cool down.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #87 – July 04, 2011, 02:26:28 pm

Kent,

That works well. We go shopping in Sac a lot and carry a cooler in the car with a big bag of ice in it for the cold stuff we get a the discounters. I just put it in the freezer at home and when we start a trip, put part of it in the RV freezer with some in the fridge. It seems to take at least a couple of hours for the RV fridge to get down to safe food temps and the ice really helps speed the process. Left over cubes come in handy also.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #88 – July 07, 2011, 07:05:17 pm

As a recap, we have had 100+ temperatures here in Oklahoma for most of June and now all of July. My refrigerator was getting up to 60 degrees in the late afternoon due to the high outside temperatures. The final chapter in this lengthy thread is now closed. It is 5:00 PM and the outside temperature is 106. The refrigerator is 38 degrees. The answer is two Valterra Fridge fans and a foam baffle that directs the air through the fins of the heat exchanger/condenser. The fans are on individual switches so I can use one or two as the temperature demands or no fans most of the time.

Here is a link to one source of the Valterra fans: Valterra A10-2618VP Universal Mount Vent Fan 12 Volt Camper Trailer RV or you can find them a many major RV Stores, but not Camping World.

The foam I used is a self extinguishing, Flame Retardant Styrofoam with a 180 degree melting point. I purchased a 4" X 36" X 3 1/2" block from Taylor Foam: Taylor Foam Inc.- Contact Information for $22.00. I had to cut the block in two pieces to get it up in the stack area behind the fridge. I also cut a 45 degree angle on the bottom of the blocks so they were beveled. The bevel should slightly improve the air flow up to the fins. I then glued the foam to the wall of the coach with a non-solvent caulk adhesive where the top edge of the foam was just below the lowest point on the fins so that air coming up through the stack was directed toward the fins. The baffle gave me an additional 9 degrees of additional cooling vs the fans without the baffle. I presume the baffle will also allow me to run the fridge without the fans at much higher outside temperatures than before. Remember, I originally had 4" of clearance between the outside wall of the coach and condenser that allowed most of the air coming in the door louvers on the back up to the fridge stack to flow around the condenser and out the fridge vent on the roof. These refrigerators are designed to have 1/2" clearance which forces the air flow through the condenser.

that's my story and I'm sticking to it. I hope it helps others who have problems keeping their fridge cool in this incredible heat.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #89 – July 07, 2011, 07:14:29 pm

Kent I know there has been some of these fan pictures shown but could you post some of your
set up. Are the fans installed under the roof vent cover or the side cover on the coach.
Dan Stansel

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #90 – July 07, 2011, 07:24:10 pm

Quote from: Dan J. Stansel – July 07, 2011, 07:14:29 pm

Kent I know there has been some of these fan pictures shown but could you post some of your
set up. Are the fans installed under the roof vent cover or the side cover on the coach.
Dan Stansel

I knew that question was coming. I finished up at 10:00 AM this morning and it was 105 on the roof so I took some not so good photos. I will post the only decent one showing 1 1/2 of the fans to give you and idea, but to go back up and take better pictures means removing the roof vent and ruining the caulk around the base of the vent. Sooo, that ain't gonna happen. I hope this one photo helps. This photo is with the roof vent removed straight down at the fridge vent hole. The condenser is offset toward the rear which also reduces conductive flow and should not have been done originally. However, there is still room for three fans if it were necessary.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #91 – July 07, 2011, 07:47:33 pm

Follow up to my previous post in this thread. Installed the new refrigerator and it worked. Replaced the Norcold 682 with a Norcold N841. Removed the window at the kitchen table to get the old one out and the new one in. Storage yard owner backed his flat bed truck up to the window so a couple of helpers could stand outside the window. Removed the refrig doors and they went in and out with the door opening down. Not very hard at all, nothing got scratched up. Had a furniture blanket on the window opening and table. I didn't have to do any trimming of the cabinet opening to get the new one it. It fit perfectly.

After removing the old refrigerator, I was somewhat appalled that Foretravel did not follow the installation instructions for the old refrig . Usually they are very good about that sort of thing. The area above the refrigerator was not blocked off and there was too much space behind the refrigerator. Apparently that is important as the airflow in at the bottom and out at the top works somewhat like a chimney does. Before I picked up the new one, I built a baffle wall to reduce the space behind the refrig. Just a couple of pieces of wood fastened to the wall with screws and piece of thin aluminum sheet metal fastened to the wood. I did put some fiberglass insulation behind the aluminum. Stapled some insulation to the ceiling above the refrig and added a piece of aluminum to block off that area. The ideal installation seems to have the refrig as close to the back wall as possible without touching it. Up to 1" space is okay; 1 - 2" add a couple of baffles; more than 2" build a baffle wall. The old instructions do not mention a baffle wall, but the new instructions do. Foretravel insulated the sides of the cabinet, a good thing, also the fit is very close on the sides which is good. I added some metal on the side wall near the burner exhaust where the foam was melted. It doesn't extend along the side of the refrig though as that would transfer heat into that area. The trim around the front of the new refrig is not quite as wide as the old trim. The wood outside the old trim is darker than what was under the old trim. Didn't look good, so masked off a small strip down the sides and painted it black. Needless to say both the old and new refrigerators went in and out of the cabinet several times, before everything was correct. This would have been a real problem without the little table level with the bottom of the opening.

Started the refrig at 10:30 am with the temp setting at 5 (range 1-9), shut off the generator and air conditioning and went home. Returned at 7 pm 8 1/2 hours later; coach interior 106 F, outside 99 F, Freezer 0 F, Refrig 39 F. At 10:30 am the next morning coach interior 91 F, outside 87 F, freezer -2 F, refrig 37 F. I think it is working okay. I have no fans, but nothing was in the refrigerator and the doors stayed closed. The temperature shot up to about 50 F in the refrig shortly after opening the door.

There are some differences between the old and new. Some of the plumbing on the back is different but the major parts are in the same places. An overheat sensor has been added near the burner area. There is supposed to be an audible alarm for door open, no flame, no ac, etc I haven't heard it, but the visual indications work as advertised. The manuals are rather hard to use, all the illustrations are on the last pages after the french section. The wiring diagrams have lots of numbers and letters that have to be looked up in the middle of the book. Finally printed out that page from the website to make it easier. Norcold does have a manuals section on their website.

Inserts for the door are purchased separately and the old ones are not wide enough for the new doors. I made my own from 1/4" oak plywood which is 7/32" thick, still too thick as 3/16" is specified as the correct thickness for an insert. Plywood will work though if the edge thickness is reduced with a belt sander on the back side. There is still space between the panel and the door in the middle area. I choose plywood over plastic as it is has slightly better insulating qualities. Sealed both sides with 2 coats of thin dewaxed shellac and 3 coats of Miniwax satin finish polyurethane on the good side. Light sanding between coats. Shellac is not water resistant, but it does slow down the movement of moisture in and out of the wood. The color match with what is in the coach is very close.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #92 – July 07, 2011, 08:08:39 pm

Kent and Jerry,

You two guys have shown a lot of initiative and creativity to solve a serious problem. Jobs well done. Good pics, Jerry.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #93 – July 07, 2011, 08:42:03 pm

Jerry, nice job. I'm just glad I did not have to go through all you did. My tiny job was bad enough in this heat.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #94 – July 07, 2011, 08:45:12 pm

Jerry, Good job installing the reefer, one h... of a better installation than CW did on mine.
One question, How did you handle the drain line. On mine they wanted to lead it thru the louvers on the outside access panel. I cut the drain line off and ran the line into an old plastic coke bottle that I only have to empty every couple of weeks depending on humidity etc.
Now go get that cold one out of the box and sit under the awning and enjoy it.
Gary B

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #95 – July 08, 2011, 01:40:34 am

Quote from: Gary Bouland – July 07, 2011, 08:45:12 pm

One question, How did you handle the drain line. Now go get that cold one out of the box and sit under the awning and enjoy it.

I didn't have to do anything with it. You can see it in one of the pictures, a white tube, empties into a plastic box where the water evaporates. The old one was the same except the box was aluminum. I need to quit working on it and go somewhere. I think I have a buyer for the old one, if not bulky trash pickup later this month.

Re: Refrigerator fans for heat exchanger

Reply #96 – September 03, 2011, 06:25:27 pm

We're currently in Tucson where temps have been in the low 100s daily. This is our first experience with really hot weather and last night I noticed that our refrigerator/freezer (Dometic) was unusually warm (49/9). So today I installed two fans on the heat exchanger using Kent Spears post as a guide. I did a couple of things differently. First, the foam to direct the air through the heat exchanger was already there so I didn't have to put that in. Also I used a fused 12v wire running to the ice maker as a source of power. And finally, I did not put a switch on the fans, but left the thermal switch that turns them on at 100 degrees. I was amazed how hot that exchanger was! I think the fans will be on most of time. Attached are a couple of pics of the project. The fans seems to help. The temps are now down to 38/4 which is fine. The outside temp is about the same as it was yesterday.... 100+. Again, the forum has been a big help. Special thanks to Kent!

Update.... I decided to add a switch for each motor. That way I can tell if each is still running. It is impossible to see the fans once the vent is in place. See the attached photo.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #97 – September 04, 2011, 07:48:20 pm

Here is another thing I am trying to reduce the temp of the refrigerator compartment. The newly installed fans continue to work well, but as I said in the previous post, that heat exchanger for the refrigerator is HOT. And the air path, at least in our coach, to bring air up through the exchanger is torturous at best. Barry tried a shade to cool the outside of the refrigerator with some success (see his previous post), but I got to thinking that just opening up the refrigerator cover would provide both some shade for the refrigerator and provide a path for more cooling air to enter the compartment. See my first attempt at this arrangement below. Any thoughts? Has anyone tried this? Problems? I do plan to close it when we are gone and at night. This would just be for the hottest days when we are in the coach.

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #98 – September 04, 2011, 08:10:17 pm

I just replaced a cooling unit in a Allegro Bus, and Dometic Had me install a 105 degree thermostat , It came standard with a 140 degree thermostat. Also they had me install a second fan, And check the spaces from the sides and to the back, they say 1 to a max of 1 1/2 inched to the back wall . It should have foam or something sealing it up on top and on the sides. Art

Re: Refrigerator not Cooling ???

Reply #99 – September 05, 2011, 11:15:10 am

Quote from: George Hatfield – September 04, 2011, 07:48:20 pm

Here is another thing I am trying to reduce the temp of the refrigerator compartment. The newly installed fans continue to work well, but as I said in the previous post, that heat exchanger for the refrigerator is HOT. And the air path, at least in our coach, to bring air up through the exchanger is torturous at best. Barry tried a shade to cool the outside of the refrigerator with some success (see his previous post), but I got to thinking that just opening up the refrigerator cover would provide both some shade for the refrigerator and provide a path for more cooling air to enter the compartment. See my first attempt at this arrangement below. Any thoughts? Has anyone tried this? Problems? I do plan to close it when we are gone and at night. This would just be for the hottest days when we are in the coach.

It's a good thing the heat exchanger at the top of the refrigerator is hot, otherwise it would not be cooling the inside of the refrig. Some of that heat is added by the burner or electric heating element. It's what causes the coolant to circulate. That heat and heat from inside the refrig is dumped back into the air by the heat exchanger. When I replaced my refrig recently, I prepared the compartment as instructed by Norcold. There was several inches of space in the back of the compartment behind the coils and piping. I added a baffle to in effect bring the wall closer to the back of the refrigerator. That forces the air to move over the lower coils and piping, and through the upper heat exchanger. I put insulation between the baffle and outside wall and above the refrigerator. It is difficult to tell if the new refrig cools better than the old refrig. The new one was okay on a recent trip with 5 people and some high temperatures in Texas. The hard part was convincing my son-in-law not to open the door everytime he walked by. It would warm up inside the refrig from that. My coach is mostly white on the outside. The newer darker paint jobs look good, but the solar heat gain must be increased due to the darker colors. Doubt if opening the lower vent door helps very much, might even hinder if the sun angle is more direct.

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