Surge Guards

Topic: Surge Guards (Read 1612 times) previous topic - next topic

Surge Guards

June 22, 2011, 10:42:37 am

I have been thinking of getting one for my coach as you never know what happens while asleep etc.
I am sure a lot of the members have one (aside from using the inverter protection) and would be interested in hearing what you bought and why that one. Also comment to see how it measures up to what you hoped for! Has anyone had success for instance when using a 50amp one that is converted down for 30 or even 15 amp plugs? I am working towards not needed shore power but still have to plug in now and again, and some of the places we find ourselves there is no 50 let alone 30 amp service.
I DO allways check for Polarity issues, no matter where, and I am able to correct that with the simple plug and lead adapter I have made that will reverse Polarity and correct "no ground" problems very quickly on 120v 15 amp feeds.
Thanks for any feed back.

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #1 – June 22, 2011, 12:57:45 pm

I too am interested i hearing what you all have to say.

I believe my 2003 has some kind of protection built in, but have no idea how good it is.

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #2 – June 22, 2011, 01:13:05 pm

Quote from: Tom Lang – June 22, 2011, 12:57:45 pm

I too am interested in hearing what you all have to say.

I believe my 2003 has some kind of protection built in, but have no idea how good it is.

They did start putting in surge & Hi/Low protection in 2003 model year.

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #3 – June 22, 2011, 02:02:14 pm

I have the surgeguard 50 amp external unit with a hasp lock at the power cord connection. I bought it used on Craigslist two years ago and have been happy with it. It takes about a minute or two till you get power so it must be doing something. I feel a little exposed in that if it craps out I would assume that the power was bad at CG and have no way to really be sure. I've been thinking about making the do it yourself power tester someone posted on this site some time ago.

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #4 – June 22, 2011, 02:03:03 pm

meant to say padlock on one of those cord connection covers.

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #5 – June 22, 2011, 02:46:52 pm

We use the SurgeGuard 34750 portable. We have used it for about 14 months. We've had no problems with the unit, nor has it detected any problems with power pedestals.

It will work on a 30 amp, 20 amp, or 15 amp source if the source is wired through an adapter to supply both legs of a 50 amp receptacle into which the SurgeGuard will plug.

It enforces a 2 minute 15 second delay after stable power is detected before supplying power to the coach. It therefore protects the coach from a bouncing power source. It is advertised to shut down on out of range voltage (<102V or >132V). It will also shut down on open neutral. It shows a caution light in case of reverse polarity or elevated ground voltage. <http://www.trci.net/products/surge-guard/hardwires-portables/50a-portable>

We don't protect it with any kind of lock. Fortunately, no one has stolen it yet.

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #6 – June 22, 2011, 03:06:45 pm

John,
We have a 50A that was made by RV Electronics (no longer made) that we use and has 3200 joules. After seeing what happened when power company voltage regulator failed, if we are plugged in we go through the surge guard. Back then we couldn't find one that was hard wired in but when we replace this one it will be hard wired so it protects both shore and generator. (TRC Surge Guard with remote) We have run ours through a 30A to 50A dogbone and it worked. Once it trips on high voltage (about 130V) it will time out after about 2 min. Can't recall what the low set point is but it has to time out on that too.

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #7 – June 22, 2011, 03:52:02 pm

Just a little point of interest, all the surge guards / suppressors do not work IF you do not have a GOOD ground connection.
Seen lots of fancy suppressors installed ahead of expensive equipment that failed to catch the surge BECAUSE without a proper ground, the surge guard or what ever has nothing to shunt to. Another educational experience in the generator game.
If you are in a stormy area, I would disconnect from post and run genset if I needed power.
Do not depend on the magic box to save your bacon every time.
As usual FWIW

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #8 – June 22, 2011, 04:19:05 pm

Howdy John,
I use the Progressive Industries HW50c with remote display. Permantently installed under the bed with the display next to the FT supplied power monitor. I have it wired to protect from both Shore Power and Generator.
Here's a couple of links: Progressive Industries 50 Amp RV Electrical Management System w Remote Display -
https://www.lawrencerv.com/products.asp?cat=9

I've had it installed about six months, so far, so good. It has caught a couple of ground issues at a couple of RV parks.
Good Luck, Dave Abel

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #9 – June 22, 2011, 05:20:48 pm

Quote from: Dave M – June 22, 2011, 03:52:02 pm

Just a little point of interest, all the surge guards / suppressors do not work IF you do not have a GOOD ground connection.
Seen lots of fancy suppressors installed ahead of expensive equipment that failed to catch the surge BECAUSE without a proper ground, the surge guard or what ever has nothing to shunt to. Another educational experience in the generator game.
If you are in a stormy area, I would disconnect from post and run genset if I needed power.
Do not depend on the magic box to save your bacon every time.
As usual FWIW

Dave,

Now that you've identified a potential problem, how can someone determine if they have a good ground or not? Thanks.

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #10 – June 22, 2011, 05:31:44 pm

I used a portable 50 amp Surge Guard for about 4 years. After 2 years, I had to send it back to have a new resistor/diode? replaced. Two years after that it stopped working again. I decided to switch over to Progressive Industries permanently-installed model HW50C, identical to David Abel's. To Quote David: " I use the Progressive Industries HW50c with remote display. Permanently installed under the bed with the display next to the FT supplied power monitor. I have it wired to protect from both Shore Power and Generator."
Adding Built in Progressive EMS
I have been using the HW50C for more than 3 years without incident.

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #11 – June 22, 2011, 05:33:28 pm

Dwayne,
I made a metal surround, double padlock and hasp combo for my portable EMS surge suppressor (hey, I like welding). Maybe I'm paranoid, because also I carry an extra 50 amp plug in case someone cuts-off the whole thing. Boy Scout Motto...be prepared.

Quote

meant to say padlock on one of those cord connection covers.

Dwayne Keith
1992 U240

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #12 – June 22, 2011, 05:42:39 pm

We have the Progessive Industries portable 50 amp unit....

EMS-PT50C

We've had it for about a year and have had no problems. It has turned the power off a couple of times, but it then came back on with in a few minutes. I assumed it detected a problem of some sort. I use it to check the 50amp circuit before plugging in the line from the coach. If there are no errors (E=0), I then plug in. Don't use my circuit tester any more.

My only complaint is that the box is a bit large and the cord a bit short. On some power stanchions it tends not to lay flat. This could affect the ground contact, but this is something I keep an eye on and we have had no problems. I lock it to the stanchion with a wire cable and paddle lock.

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #13 – June 22, 2011, 06:41:38 pm

For me, I prefer the outdoor model chained/cabled to the post. The idea of the surge supressor under my bed is not the way for a warm comfy feeling. Maybe I've seen too many no so nice explosions in the suppressors/surge guards items.
Happy dreams

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #14 – June 22, 2011, 07:02:26 pm

Quote from: John Haygarth – June 22, 2011, 10:42:37 am

I have been thinking of getting one for my coach as you never know what happens while asleep etc.
I am sure a lot of the members have one (aside from using the inverter protection) and would be interested in hearing what you bought and why that one. Also comment to see how it measures up to what you hoped for! Has anyone had success for instance when using a 50amp one that is converted down for 30 or even 15 amp plugs?.............................................

John,
There is a LOT of good information on FOFUM's. For example, search our site for "Progressive Industries", and one receives more than 60 "hits" of information well worth digesting.
For example, over three years ago I posted after more than two years of positive experience with the Progressive Industries EMS Model HW50C : Campground electrical protection
My on-going experience continues to be positive with the PI EMS HW50C. It works on any 50, 30, even 15 A shore power. It has done more than I would have anticipated and I still find the Company owners to be highly customer oriented and responsive.
I have had at least four valid protection trips in the past year, one on 50 A campground service low voltage on one leg, one on a 30 A campground service intermittent ground and three on my own generator, each time on undervoltage on both legs.
Not one of these would I have found myself, by meter, as they occurred well after having verified good service by meter and by the PI EMS upon initial plug in to park power, or long after my generator was started and running normally.
FWIW,
Neal

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #15 – June 22, 2011, 07:40:20 pm

Posting the comment about explosions in suppressors/surge guards is sure to alarm a few people, like my spouse. Thanks for the insight.

Quote

The idea of the surge supressor under my bed is not the way for a warm comfy feeling. Maybe I've seen too many no so nice explosions in the suppressors/surge guards items. Happy dreams

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #16 – June 22, 2011, 08:12:26 pm

I have the Progressive portable 50 Amp and use a cable lock. It has saved me couple of times especially at a rally using a large generator. I found they crank these things up during the day when everyone is operating their ac, but at night when a lot of ac go off these large generators are still putting out a lot of power and can over load the circuits. I was at the FMCA six state rally in N
Little Rock and they had two generators catch on fire which supplied power to my line of coaches.
I also had it stop working. Called progressive and sent it to them, they repaired and sent it back to me overnight at no cost to me. Great people to do business with. DAN

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #17 – June 22, 2011, 08:19:12 pm

Hi John,
I have a EMS 50 amp portable from Surge Guard. I bought it used from our former forum leader, John Lang. It was older, and out of warranty. It worked as advertised. It tripped a few times, shut the power off, then came back on. On day we took a lightening strike on our property that fried the Surge Guard box. NO damage to any coach electrics/electronics! I called the Surge Guard people, told them how I obtained the unit, etc. They said send it back to them, and they would check it out, and get back to me. They did this. Within the week I had a new Surge Guard unit at the door. No charge, not even the shipping. That's a great company. They stand behind their product.
Best of luck,
Raymond

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #18 – June 22, 2011, 09:35:21 pm

I have had the surge guard 50 amp hardwired in my three coaches. I was at FOT and we found out that the power company had a loose neutral at their box. It fired a number of coaches on the line. New fridges and inverters etc butmy surge guard too the surge and burned out. I had it replaced and all was well. I have it in my current coach too. I carry a spare now with me too. It is a simple process to change out if it fries again.

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #19 – June 22, 2011, 10:40:47 pm

John: You seem to carry a lot of spare parts. How many have you actually needed? Dan Stansel

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #20 – June 23, 2011, 12:01:51 am

Dave M,

Ditto George's question. A GOOD ground means a good connection to the soil. If the neutral is tied to the ground at the breaker panel but the ground does not have a good connection to earth how can you tell? I guess that you could drive your own ground rod 8 feet into the ground and ground your surge protector to be sure of a good ground but that would be expensive because it would be impossible to remove the ground rod when you left. (I know because I tried to remove a ground rod from a house that had been torn down.)

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #21 – June 23, 2011, 06:59:34 am

Grounding is a difficult and sometimes expensive issue. For our home after many costly hits, we wound up with 500' 3" wide copper strap, about 85 ground rods, cad welded around the outside of home in a trench15' away from basement walls and terminated at the electric meter ground/neutral. end of problem, after 15 years and many lightening shows, not an issue.
This was extreme, worth while, cost about $4,500.00 15 yrs ago, at leasst double today. Also included the HD Milwaukee rod driver about $800.00.00.
At campground, why I suggest disconnecting from power and run genset if you need power, as I trust none of the commercial nor local codes to protect my stuff.
As said, FWIW and do what you feel comfy with.

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #22 – June 23, 2011, 12:08:17 pm

wow, am I glad I asked this question because of the feed back that is so valuable.
We generally do not park in the RV parks when travelling unless it is the only place around as we are many times off the beaten track to speak. The only time we sit for any real length of time is in mexico where the power is sometimes all over the map. The RV park we are in there has a daily habit of rising and falling and ground for me is a big steel rod pounded in the ground. I do check before hooking up. This is the main reason for us to install and now add onto a solar system and various changes to our power needs. I do not like running the gen-set in a park if possible. I again say thank you to all for the input, and keep this topic active as more info is sure to come in
Thanks again

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #23 – June 23, 2011, 05:22:57 pm

Here's another vote for progressive Industries and their EMSPT50C portable unit. I've used mine for about 6 years and wouldn't connect anywhere without it.

Re: Surge Guards

Reply #24 – August 08, 2011, 05:17:43 pm

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – June 22, 2011, 02:46:52 pm

We use the SurgeGuard 34750 portable. We have used it for about 14 months. We've had no problems with the unit, nor has it detected any problems with power pedestals.

It is advertised to shut down on out of range voltage (<102V or >132V).

I'm bumping this up and Dave, I'm not picking on you, your post just happened to have some pertinent info in it.

We've used the same model TRC Surge Guard portable for 7 years now. It's always worked well, not passing power if there was a problem when we plugged in and doing the 2 minute or so delay.

What we've discovered over the past 2 weeks is that the over/under voltage circuitry has an 8 second delay in it - that is, voltage must be over 132V or under 102V for more than 8 seconds before the unit will trip (this is listed in the on-line user's guide).

Our coach's built-in over/under voltage relay (that was first used in 2003) has saved us from one over voltage and one under voltage condition since we've been in Santa Fe. The TRC Surge Guard, however, never shut down because the conditions lasted less than 8 seconds (although they did repeat at least once in rapid succession in each case, well within the span of a minute).

I couldn't find any info on the Progressive Industries' EMS over/under time delay. Does anyone know what it is (not the start-up one, but if over/under voltage occurs some time after establishing a shore connection)? I'm thinking we would rather have a device that would respond more quickly to kill power, but then wait the 2 minutes before allowing it to pass to the coach. I'd think it would be healthier for the A/Cs, etc.

Michelle

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