Grey and Black water valves

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Grey and Black water valves

June 29, 2011, 12:26:02 am

Since we got the coach, the grey and black water handles in the utility bay have been hard to move and they don't seem to close completely. When you remove the Thetford cap, a small amount of unpleasant liquid would run out. Not socially responsible. I've incorporated an additional exterior value which does control the leakage problem, somewhat.
Looking at some old threads, I noticed that people have used vegetable oil and Thertford valve lubricant internally into the tanks and silicon lube externally on the valves to get things working. Could anyone report how successful these methods are? Any new ideas? Any and all help would be much appreciated

Thanks

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #1 – June 29, 2011, 01:13:22 am

It may be time to replace the valves. You have the same year as our coach and we had our valves replaced last year at FOT. I'm sure this could be done as a DIY project or by another RV service center other than FOT. The valves are relatively easy to get too.

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #2 – June 29, 2011, 09:13:43 am

We just had both of our valves replaced by MOT this past week and I have to say, it's the first time in 7 years that they don't "leak". We originally had the electric valves that were always a problem so several years ago, those were replaced with the manual valves. Our coach is set up strange in that the grey valve is streetside and the black valve is curbside with a cable running the entire width of the coach to the street side for opening/closing.

The new valves open and close with ease! Go for new valves and be done with it!

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #3 – June 29, 2011, 01:14:40 pm

The problem is that new valves only stay easy to operate for a couple of years, depending on how often they are used. I have had excellent success with the aforementioned lubrication processes and frequent use. Now that we are full timing and utilize the valves every couple of weeks, with proper lubrication we have no more leaking and smoother operation. But I still have to lube them every couple of months. I have also noticed the better I flush and rinse the system, the easier the valves work the next time.

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #4 – June 29, 2011, 07:31:42 pm

Thanks for the feeback. Roughly, what did valve replcement cost-I you wouldn't mind.

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #5 – June 29, 2011, 08:09:23 pm

I don't recall the cost. We had a bunch of stuff done. It took the tech a good hour to get it done. The parts were probably less than $100 or so. So I would guess, less than $200. We also had a third valve added. That was one of the best options we have added to our coach. Not only does it provide a backup to the other valves (black and gray), but it also allows a thorough flush of the black tank using the gray tank contents.

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #6 – June 29, 2011, 08:19:07 pm

Larry,

Same situation as the Hatfields only I'd say ours was probably around $300. We have the 3rd valve as well. I would not leave home without it.

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #7 – June 29, 2011, 11:14:36 pm

I'll echo both Georges. The third valve is a great addition and dramatically simplifies dumping the tanks. I did the third valve work myself so my only cost was the valve. While I was installing the third valve, I found it easier to replace the gaskets in the other two valves rather than replace the whole valve. They both work great now but I still keep them lubed.

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #8 – July 01, 2011, 09:34:07 am

I just looked up our invoice for two weeks ago at MOT when we had both valves replaced and the cost was $375. It was a bit complicated and probably more $$ than normal as we started with trying to get a 3rd valve installed and then about 1/4 of the way into the plan we changed our mind and just replaced the two valves. We could not get a 3rd valve installed and still be able to close the bin door with the sewer hose attached and I did not want that.

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #9 – July 04, 2011, 02:09:49 am

Thanks again for the feedback. The third valve is on the dump
pipe? I don't think I'm getting it.

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #10 – July 04, 2011, 02:45:05 am

Larry,

Before you close the door on this modification, let me paint a real sceanario that has happened to many of us and sooner of later could happen to you. You are out on an extended trip with your coach and it is time to dump one or both tanks. You pull one of the handles, it feels different and when you go to push the valve closed -- uh oh nothing happens. You are now in the situation where you can't use that tank. Bummer.

But for less than $40 you can add a 3rd valve. You do have to convert the existing connector at the end of your waste pipe from Thetford to Valterra. This will take five minutes and cost you under $8.00. See first photo.

Next you add a removable twist on 3rd valve. This will cost you less than $25.00. Now you are protected against a valve failure -- a dreaded situation. See second photo. You can even just keep this valve handy for the time when you will surely need it.

Finally, o.k. so you're thinking: well then I have to buy a different kind of hose. This is true, but sooner or later the present hose you have will spring a leak. Trust me: been there, done that.

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #11 – July 04, 2011, 09:21:57 am

Quote from: txforetravel – July 01, 2011, 09:34:07 am

I just looked up our invoice for two weeks ago at MOT when we had both valves replaced and the cost was $375. It was a bit complicated and probably more $$ than normal as we started with trying to get a 3rd valve installed and then about 1/4 of the way into the plan we changed our mind and just replaced the two valves. We could not get a 3rd valve installed and still be able to close the bin door with the sewer hose attached and I did not want that.

We are VERY happy to have that 3rd valve for all the reasons George mentioned AND the fact that we can now use "normal" sewer hoses without an adapter, instead of the odd-sized hose that Foretravel used on the older coaches (do they still use the larger one, even today?) We never sit with our sewer line hooked up, even if we are in one place for an extended period. When we need to dump, we hook up the sewer line, get it done and then stow everything away. We never leave our grey open because we use it to backflush the black ... a very nice help to keep all the heavier sediment on it's way. I would certainly give a bit of thought to how vital it is to you to be able to close that little door when compared to the huge safety factor of having the 3rd valve. FWIW....

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #12 – July 04, 2011, 09:28:09 am

Quote from: LBoyd – July 04, 2011, 02:09:49 am

Thanks again for the feedback. The third valve is on the dump
pipe?

Larry, yes, this is a third valve that's installed immediately behind the dump outlet. From your first post it sounds like you're doing something like this already.

Folks with the previous generation coaches have been installing a permanent third valve. Unfortunately for those of us with the '02-'05 era coaches, there isn't enough room to have such a valve installed and leave the sewer hose attached if you want to keep the utility bay door fully closed with the hose attached.

If you were to look at the plumbing behind the "wall" (Barry B. has some good photos), you'll see there's a fair length of waste pipe between the dump outlet fitting and the actual valves on the tanks. In Tom's case I think it's the entire width of the coach. In ours it's quite a long distance, too. That's often the cause of the "bonus material" in our era coaches.

Michelle

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #13 – July 04, 2011, 02:30:44 pm

Thanks for the clarifications, Michelle and everyone, it's wonderful to have access to all the info.

I did install a third valve but it's sort of a hash-up which I hoped wouldn't be permanent. It is a set of converters (which leak at times) that step down to a standard size with a valve. It, of course, prevents us from closing the utility bay door when the hose is attached. I was hoping that there was a cleaner method like building another valve into the system upstream. I haven't attached anything permentally hoping to find one.

Another question: How do you wash out the black with the grey using the third valve?

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #14 – July 04, 2011, 02:59:48 pm

Quote from: LBoyd – July 04, 2011, 02:30:44 pm

...
Another question: How do you wash out the black with the grey using the third valve?

I described the way I back flush the black tank with grey water here. 3rd sewer valve is very difficult to open

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #15 – July 04, 2011, 04:53:53 pm

Thanks, another good thread!

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #16 – July 05, 2011, 10:36:10 am

I have described my enema method for cleaning the black tank with grey water in the archives. i don't have a third valve. After I dump the black tank, I lift the sewer hose with one hand to form a trap, then open the grey tank valve. When the water stops rushing, I close the grey valve and let the effluent from the black tank drain. I then repeat this, getting three enemas from one gray water dump. The coach feels much better afterwards!

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #17 – July 05, 2011, 11:01:22 am

Quote from: amos.harrison – July 05, 2011, 10:36:10 am

I have described my enema method for cleaning the black tank with grey water in the archives. i don't have a third valve. After I dump the black tank, I lift the sewer hose with one hand to form a trap, then open the grey tank valve. When the water stops rushing, I close the grey valve and let the effluent from the black tank drain. I then repeat this, getting three enemas from one gray water dump. The coach feels much better afterwards!

That sounds like a heck of a lot of fun but did you ever consider installing a third valve.

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #18 – July 06, 2011, 12:51:19 am

Brett,
I do the same thing: lift the sewer hose high enough for the grey water to back flow into the black tank. I sometimes manage to get 4 back flushes from one grey tank. Regarding Kent's query about adding a 3rd valve, it's a lot cheaper and works well for me.

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #19 – July 06, 2011, 06:34:24 am

Ditto. It's worked for me for decades.

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #20 – July 06, 2011, 06:58:47 am

My coach has water hose connections for flushing the black and gray tanks. I added quick disconnect fittings to speed up the process. I don't see any need for using the gray water to flush the black tank on coaches with this feature. I believe that there is a pipe in the top of the tank that sprays water down the sides. I have never had an odor problem with the tanks when in storage, and I keep some water in them if there is no danger of a freeze. Precharging the black tank with at least 10 gal of water seems to be effective in reducing odors.

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #21 – July 06, 2011, 12:05:12 pm

Don and Brett, you guys must be a whole lot more coordinated and have much better luck than me. I'm pretty sure I would be wearing the outflow if I back flushed that way. I have not always had good luck with dumping the tanks but I won't go into detail. Carol and Jeff, you need not go into detail either.

I too have a tank sprayer and I use it for up high on the walls but I get a lot cleaner black tank by flushing with the 3rd valve. I believe I will have much less solids buildup over time with the gray water flush.

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #22 – July 06, 2011, 02:23:23 pm

I'm wondering if it might be acceptable to insert the rotating pressure washer wand into the black tank and give it a quick once over. 3500 psi ought to clean it out but I'd hate to damage the tank. We've used our pressure washer for tree pruning though pressure can, of course be modulated.

Chuck

Third dump valve

Reply #23 – July 27, 2011, 11:30:02 am

I am attempting to install a third dump valve but my main outlet pipe is against the floor.. How do I gain the 1/4 inch clearance that I need for the valterra fitting to fit above the floor and around the pipe. Will I need to raise the pipe and how would I accomplish this? Your help with will be greatly appreciated.

Re: Grey and Black water valves

Reply #24 – August 04, 2011, 04:46:21 pm

Well you talked me into it. Replaced both grey & black water valves today and what the heck added a third valve. Cost was less than $60 and about 3 hours of my time. And I work pretty slow...

See ya
ken

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