New Michelin tires

Topic: New Michelin tires (Read 3165 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #25 – July 11, 2011, 04:20:27 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – July 11, 2011, 10:32:39 am

Jeff,

...
Yes, with large temperature swings, one could easily get carried away with tire pressure. Rough rule of thumb is that PSI changes 1 PSI for each 10 degrees F temperature change.

My suggestion is to understand the charts. All tire inflation charts give the MINIMUM PSI for a given weight. To keep from "over-thinking" it, many of us add 5 PSI to that minimum. That would cover you for a 50 degree F drop in temperature. More than that-- it might be time to move to a better climate.

Brett

Jeff,

Brett's advice, as usual, is excellent and succinct.

I normally check our tires whenever we experience a new, recent low ambient temperature. I verify that we are carrying the appropriate minimum pressure for a cold tire. At any higher temperatures the pressure will rise, but will not likely go above the maximum rating on the tire. My understanding is that the maximum pressure rating is based on a COLD tire. Don't release air from a hot tire! Base measurements on cold tires.

I generally check one or more tires each day we travel using a gauge to verify that pressures are tracking each other among the tires. I also "thump" the tires at almost every rest stop. I check the surface temperature at most stops with an infrared gauge to verify that they are consistent in temperature. A tire hotter that the rest has a problem.

My recollection is that the last time I added air was in Montana in December. Pressures remain in a reasonable range even in the 100F heat of summer in Texas. Morning temperatures are about 75F. Using the 1 PSI/10F ratio, 75F would raise the pressure about 7 PSI over the 5F temps in Montana. With normal gradual drop of about 1 PSI/month, pressures have remained in a proper range. I expect to add air when temps drop significantly due to weather changes or a change of location. I always check with a gauge if we experience a significant decrease in ambient temperature.

Enjoy the cool air. Breathe deeply and often in order to keep enough oxygen in the old bloodstream.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #26 – July 11, 2011, 04:39:31 pm

Quote from: Kent Speers – July 11, 2011, 04:17:20 pm

...................Where do you get the Centramatics for that price and how do I know what size to order. I checked their web site and its pretty confusing.

Kent,
I figured it out from my tire sidewall information and from the Centramatics website.
But here's a much easier way. Just dial 256-295-8270 and ask for Willis Horton (and NO I'm not getting any kick-backs). Willis verified my Centramatics model # determination, had the two sets (Steer and Drive) delivered to me for the $450 and gave me all kinds of advice on what exactly to watch for during the installation process. The Centramatics are easy installs. It's the many things that a tire store can do wrong in mounting the tires that can do you wrong.
I agree with Gary Bouland. Willis is a fine gentleman and someone that I wish I had discovered long ago!
Neal

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #27 – July 11, 2011, 04:46:05 pm

Neal, A couple comments, 1st - I am not educated with the free radicals with vibrations, I only know that when I gave up all the weighted powder and Centrama tics, removed the rim, vacuumed out the powder, washed the inside of tire, dried tire, put on a proper truck tire balance, checked for run out within specs, spun up, found what was needed, added weights where needed, did both front wheels, took for a 90 mph ride North on I-95, all smooth as the ole babies butt. So all the free radicals etc look good in the engineering classes I am sure, but in the my world, I go with what works, and it AINT powder or Centrama tics. AMEN

I am tickled pink for the users who love the Centramatics, I am too dumb to see the advantage when they just do not work for me. I leave the harmonics and free radicals for those interested.

2nd, Yup, Herman Powers Tire, installed the long (NOT Extensions) stems maybe about a foot long, had to bend them to fit the hole properly in the Aluminum outer wheel.
( I do know the difference between extensions and the real thing)

How can it be that I got the only long stems in captivity on my coach ? Interesting huh !

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #28 – July 11, 2011, 06:11:57 pm

Myers tire supply should have what we need. myerstiresupply.com

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #29 – July 11, 2011, 06:45:00 pm

I should drive through AL and 'get 'er done! on my next trip...

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #30 – July 11, 2011, 06:49:40 pm

My money is on Dave. If he says he got one piece valve stems, he got one piece valve stems. Dave know his stuff.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #31 – July 11, 2011, 08:09:16 pm

Quote from: Dave M – July 11, 2011, 04:46:05 pm

How can it be that I got the only long stems in captivity on my coach ? Interesting huh !

Dave,
We have long/one piece valve stems on our '97. Don't know if they were put on at factory or if previous owner installed them.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #32 – July 11, 2011, 10:07:14 pm

Quote from: Bill Willett – July 11, 2011, 06:11:57 pm

Myers tire supply should have what we need. myerstiresupply.com

Bill,
I couldn't find anything in their on line catalog. I submitted the wheel info in a question to Myers. We'll see if they can help.
Thanks,
Neal

Quote from: Pamela & Mike – July 11, 2011, 08:09:16 pm

Quote from: Dave M – July 11, 2011, 04:46:05 pm

How can it be that I got the only long stems in captivity on my coach ? Interesting huh !

Dave,
We have long/one piece valve stems on our '97. Don't know if they were put on at factory or if previous owner installed them.

Quote from: Dave M – July 11, 2011, 04:46:05 pm

How can it be that I got the only long stems in captivity on my coach ? Interesting huh !

Dave, Mike,
Well, Guys, the mystery continues. I spent more time on the phone, this afternoon, with Herman Power Tire (Bobby, Frank and Greg). I've pestered them so much, I hope that they don't put up a roadblock the next time I'm anywhere near Nac. Frank remembered me from my previous questions a few weeks ago.
They have 5" (approximate measurement) bendable and fixed angle Haltec tire stems that they regularly use on FT (and truck) inner duals. They can put up to 5" or 6" Haltec extensions on those with Alcoa vibration stabilizer inserts (donuts) in the FT outer duals.
They don't recall ever having had, ever installing, or ever being able to order long, one-piece stems. While I was talking with them today, they called each of their suppliers and none of the suppliers could provide a source for obtaining single one-piece, up to 11" or 12" tire stems for inner duals. These suppliers said that they don't think that there is such an item. At least they don't know of any. There are longer one-piece valve stems for graders and loaders, farm equipment, etc., but the valve stem mounting holes in the wheels are of not compatible design.Frank agreed to keep looking and will get back to me if he makes any progress.
If anyone can provide any other details, would you let us know?
Thanks,
Neal

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #33 – July 11, 2011, 10:30:08 pm

Herman Power installed the tires on our coach in April, 2010. They installed (or left on the wheels) the stems with extenders through the "donuts" for the inside wheels. The outside wheels have inward facing stems. It would be easier to check pressure if the stems extended outward, but there is probably a good reason they point them inward. The inward position may provide more protection from damage.

I expect the single piece stems that Dave has may be more reliable than the stems with extensions. However, the stems with extensions seem to work well for lots of folk.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #34 – July 11, 2011, 11:14:19 pm

Quote

Jim, In the attached pictures, you can see that I just bandsawed off the end of a $0.39 True Value Hardware store crutch tip, and slipped one end over an 11/16" socket. Then I just use a 3/8' drive extension as a handle to thread on the Pressure Pro TPMS Sensor. Now, one has to get down low to have a good view of the inner dual tire stem, and then be very gentle with the process, because one could easily cross thread or otherwise screw up the assembly, but if you are careful, it is easy to "feel" the thread engagement and easy to hear the dill valve expressing air as you near the seated condition. The modified crutch tip has plenty of holding power to apply and then, later, remove the TPMS Sensor. I put a tie wrap on the socket to keep the crutch tip from being pushed back as I push the tip on over the sensor during a removal.
Neal

Neal,
You're ingenuity is amazing! I wouldn't have thought of a crutch tip to grasp the TMS sender. Good pictures too. Thanks for your advice and effort to explain it.
This emphasizes, again, how valuable this group of dedicated owners are to each other.
Jim

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #35 – July 11, 2011, 11:57:59 pm

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – July 11, 2011, 10:30:08 pm

1.............................but there is probably a good reason they point them inward. The inward position may provide more protection from damage.

2.............................I expect the single piece stems that Dave has may be more reliable than the stems with extensions. However, the stems with extensions seem to work well for lots of folk.

JD,
1. If the tires are not directional, one just reverses the inner and outer duals, in a standard rotation, to extend tire life. Because we have steel inner-dual rims and Alcoa outer-dual rims, we never do that, so the inward pointing valve stem is more nuisance than good. There's no reason to not change it out to a stubby, outward facing stem that is not as likey to be damaged by tire air chucks and tire gauges, etc. Dill valves are easily damaged and caused to leak if not depressed correctly (squarely).
2. With regard to valve stem extensions, let's be perfectly clear: for those of us with the Pressure Pro TPMS, it is of significant safety importance to minimize the possible sources of valve stem leakage.
Like Dave and George, and maybe many others, if I had known how finicky the PP sensor seals are and how perfect the end of the valve stem has to be in order to prevent slow leaks, I definitely would NOT have purchased the system, especially when PP chronically blames the customer and denies the design weaknesses (including radio frequency interferences that lead some FT's to very low signal to noise ratios, while other FT's have very good (high) signal to noise ratios................from IR repeaters, inverters, converters and remote controls, among other things ). Read that as some FT's will receive signals from 100' away while others won't reliably receive a signal from 8' away, without installing an add-on ($100) signal repeater.
However, to get back on target here, the inner dual valve stem extensions have several ways of creating slow leak problems when using the PP TPMS sensors.
If one is not using a TPMS sensor that keeps the dill valve depressed and OPEN, all of the time, then the inner dual valve stem extensions are not of as much safety concern.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #36 – July 12, 2011, 03:22:45 am

To add to The above post by Neal. While I and many others have had the issue with the slow leaking from the Pressure Pro sensors, Yesterday I learned that Foretravel has been using them on theri new coaches and they also had massive issues with the leaking of air, so they made a major issue with the PP folks.
Now it appears that PP has redesigned the sensor adding an "O" Ring inside the sensor that is visable. It now seems the issue has been solved. The sad part is that PP always would tell you that you are too dumb to install such a simple thing.
I have always claimed that they needed to redesign the sensor to solve the leaking issue.
Now am told PP will not fix existing sensors, however the new ones have the update installed.
Amazing how PP only hears Foretravel and not the massive complaints by individual users.
Still think they are a low class outfit

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #37 – July 12, 2011, 08:13:12 am

Quote from: Dave M – July 12, 2011, 03:22:45 am

To add to The above post by Neal. While I and many others have had the issue with the slow leaking from the Pressure Pro sensors, Yesterday I learned that Foretravel has been using them on theri new coaches and they also had massive issues with the leaking of air, so they made a major issue with the PP folks.
Now it appears that PP has redesigned the sensor adding an "O" Ring inside the sensor that is visable. It now seems the issue has been solved. The sad part is that PP always would tell you that you are too dumb to install such a simple thing.
I have always claimed that they needed to redesign the sensor to solve the leaking issue.
Now am told PP will not fix existing sensors, however the new ones have the update installed.
Amazing how PP only hears Foretravel and not the massive complaints by individual users.
Still think they are a low class outfit

Dave: I gotta agree with you on this one.

Apparently, Pressure Pro does not realize that THEIR problem is really an opportunity to cement good customer relationships. For a $3.00 handling fee they could easily mail new seals to customers who ask and include instructions on how to make the change.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #38 – July 12, 2011, 08:50:55 am

Neal,
Just went out this A/M and pulled the donut and put a tape on the stem. They are approx. 6 1/2" to 6 3/4" long from the end of threads to the bend where it goes into the wheel. The threads just barley extend past the donut so you have to take care when you install the tire sensor to make sure it is seated off and not in a bind on the donut. I know this isn't much help and we can't get a pic. or look to see if there is a manufacture stamp without pulling the outside duel.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #39 – July 12, 2011, 09:48:35 am

Borg Tire Supply Dually Valve - Main Frameset

Yes - long valve stems are available.
No - they are not cheap.
But you only have to do it once... As far as I know these are the only players in the game. I believe the DL4 kit is the one for us.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #40 – July 12, 2011, 09:54:17 am

You might also try the Tire Man of LazyDaze fame:

http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~tire-man/products.html
We used him for our first Lazy Daze. Our 1999 U320 came with long stems.

best, paul

Quote

Borg Tire Supply Dually Valve - Main Frameset
Yes - long valve stems are available. No - they are not cheap.
But you only have to do it once... As far as I know these are the only players in the game. I believe the DL4 kit is the one for us.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #41 – July 12, 2011, 10:52:39 am

Quote from: Dave Head – July 12, 2011, 09:48:35 am

Borg Tire Supply Dually Valve - Main Frameset
Yes - long valve stems are available.
No - they are not cheap.
But you only have to do it once... As far as I know these are the only players in the game. I believe the DL4 kit is the one for us.

Dave,
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Karma to you!
Thank you!
I've spent hours trying to overcome this mystery and find longer inner dually stems.
How did you find this site and supplier? I need to improve and learn how to search more effectively.
Thanks again.
Neal

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #42 – July 12, 2011, 11:05:02 am

We had discussed it several months back. I hadn't bookmarked it, but it was still readily avail in my google memory banks... Click the motorhome link at the bottom of the page.
I would still call them because there are several options on the front page for the 9" long kits (DL4xxx).

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #43 – July 12, 2011, 11:28:40 am

This is why I laugh so much, Herman Powers shop in Nac, had and DID install the long stem on my left rear inside. The black man doing the the changing, said no problem, he went inside and got the long stem and installed it.
Does sound like the left hand and the right hand at Herman Powers need to communicate a little more.
Yes I think it is funny

and stupid when I am informed it could not have happened

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #44 – July 12, 2011, 12:05:28 pm

Moved this to it's own thread Crossfire Dual™ Tire Pressure Equalization System. This thread is busy enough without another tangent!

Quote

Bill Chaplin mentions the crossfires earlier in this thread. Anyone else have experience / opinons on them? The theory sounds good but they sure are ugly! Function before beauty is my motto though.

Dual Dynamics

Would pressure pros work with these?

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #45 – July 12, 2011, 01:43:23 pm

Quote from: Dave M – July 12, 2011, 11:28:40 am

This is why I laugh so much, Herman Powers shop in Nac, had and DID install the long stem on my left rear inside. The black man doing the the changing, said no problem, he went inside and got the long stem and installed it.
Does sound like the left hand and the right hand at Herman Powers need to communicate a little more.
Yes I think it is funny and stupid when I am informed it could not have happened

Dave,
If you mean me, I didn't mean to cast any disparaging words at you.
I was frustrated that you could get a part from Herman one day and a few days later Herman knew nothing about the part (longer, single-piece stem). In way of background information, I have had several FT owners tell me that they don't have tire stem extensions on their inner duallies. Then when I crawled underneath, each time they in fact did have extensions, but the joint was so difficult to see from the outside, they don't realize that it is there. So, from remote, it seemed possible that they might have slipped an extension on your tire stem. I know. I should have known better!
I'm obviously with you, that Herman Power Tire Service seems to have an internal communications issue (or a technician that is not using company parts).

Thanks for the FT Pressure Pro insights.
I'm still scratching my head over an issue that I had with PP when we came north this May.
We had a catastrophic blowout, a four inch square chunk, right through the steel cords, on a three year old Carlisle, LRE tire on our Featherlite. The PP system worked just as it should have and we were able to pull over immediately with no additional damage. I don't carry the necessary jack to lift a loaded tandem trailer with torsion axels, but I had a brand new spare and National Interstate road service had us underway within an hour. We put four new (US made) Carlisles on the trailer in Brunswick, GA. That's another whole story!
The PP on the wheel, at the time of the blowout, never transmitted another good data packet, according to the PP monitor on-board troubleshooting data history.
When we got back to NH, I got "Doug", the PP Operations Manager, to troubleshoot the sensor with me over the phone. He had me go through several evolutions and agreed that the sensor was dead. I shipped it back to PP . PP Called a week later and said there was absolutely nothing wrong with the sensor, and wanted a credit card number before they would send the sensor back to me.
I talked with Doug again and he assured me that he didn't remember our prior conversation and although "WE" might have agreed that it could be nothing but a dead sensor on the phone, it had to be "MY misinterpretation" of our combined troubleshooting that was the problem. He was very anxious to end the conversation. He agreed to send the original sensor back to me and there was no shipping charge. When I got the sensor back, I had no trouble setting it up and getting a good signal and it has worked just fine ever since. Then I looked at the sensor more closely and (although I can't prove it) I believe that the sensor is a different one than I sent to PP. The one that I had sent them had several minor scratches and this one seems to be pristine new. It did not have the new "o-ring" seal, however, it seemed to have a fresh seal. I could very well be wrong, but........something seemed fishy.
FWIW,
Neal

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #46 – July 12, 2011, 01:58:13 pm

Perhaps Herman Power will once again have these in stock. They sure are missing a sale opportunity to upgrade Foretravel owners to these stems. I think the inward pointing valve stem on the outer rear tire is a big PITA.

Let the record show, I said Dave Metzger knew his stuff.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #47 – July 12, 2011, 02:15:39 pm

Down George!

I see I need to measure this rare one piece stem, as I recall, it came straight, no angle, no bent shape, the tire man just bent it around to fit the hole. Makes me wonder if it is used on another application that Herman Power serves, as they do a lot of road work for who ever like farmers etc etc. And the Brothers never thought of it as a good idea for the fools like us. ??

OK, I just tried to get a good measurement, and I am guessing the long stem from the steel inner wheel to where the PP would screw on is about 7 inch, maybe 8 inch max. The wheel is not positioned where I can get a good visual, but feel the above to be right.

As for the PP stuff, I have already formed a large negative opinion on that name, however if they are willing to provide (if possible) the "O" Ring or ? that solves the "Too Dumb issue" of leaks, it would do a lot for their future business in a positive way, if they want to keep it a deep dark secret, they are just driving good customers to other choices as I see it.

Below, $12.00 stem, just find what you want, search google lots of listings.

VH515S7T 7-1/8" Eff length reverse mount .625 truck valve - VH515S7T - Beico

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #48 – July 12, 2011, 05:31:25 pm

Michelin Tires:
Herman's in Nac installed six Michelin XZA-1+ LR-G 275/80R22.5 tires in April 2010, the day after I purchased my 1996 U320 40 WTFE at MOT.
I paid $2600 cash and Hermans installed the tires, balanced the two front and the spare (2003 Michelin XZE which was on the front right). The rears already had balancing rings which seem to work.

Spare Tire: The spare which came with my U320 is mounted on a steel rim which I believe I cannot use. The Alcoa manual shows different inner cap nuts (stud pilot rims) for steel than for aluminum. The outer cap nuts seem to be the same.

Question: Can a steel rim replace an aluminum rim on a Foretravel all aluminum stud piloted coach?

Michelin XZA-1+ verses XZA3: On one web site Michelin does not recommend the XZA-1+ tire for RV use, while on another site Michelin does recommend it. It seems that the XZA-1+ is for "long haul" (smooth surface), while the XZA3 is for RV (multiple surface).

Equal: (balancing powder). I used Equal in the tires of my SOB gas 32 foot class A. The front tires would get silky smooth after a few minutes of driving but would get very bouncey after hitting a rough spot on the road, then get silky smooth again after a couple minutes. The few seconds of intense bouncing bothered me, so, I removed it on the front and had the tires balanced. I left the Equal in the rear tires and it seemed to be OK. I would not use Equal in the front again.

Long Stems & Pressure Pro:
I replaced the extension on the inside duals which were not well made and leaked. I purchased good quality replacements in Quartzsite last January from a truck dealer. I slide rubber tubing over the extensions so that there was a snug fit between the tube on the extension and the Alcoa donut. I also purchased short stems and had them installed on the outside duals. I use small, spin on, pressure gauges which just stay on the stems and allow me to check tire pressure with a quick glance at each of the six gauges. I also use an infrared temperature sensor to check all tire and brake temperatures at every stop. I am not convinced that the rolling tire pressure information provided by "Pressure Pro" is worth the cost ($ and trouble). If I have a blow out one day, maybe I will change my mind!

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #49 – July 13, 2011, 08:51:38 am

Why would one not want to use thread lock, LockTite, on the union of the valve stem and the extension. Wouldn't that help stop any future valve stem leaks.

Wyatt, I would have agreed with you about a blow out until last December when my Towed had a blowouts on the front tires from road debris. By the time I figured out what was going on, I had well over $3000 in damage to my Subaru and a weeks wait for new wheel rims.

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