New Michelin tires

Topic: New Michelin tires (Read 3165 times) previous topic - next topic

New Michelin tires

July 08, 2011, 11:17:12 pm

We purchased six Michelin XZA+ 275/80R22.5 Load Range H from Herman Power Tires in Nacogdoches today.

XZA3 tires have been replaced by XZA3+ (plus). It is not known what changes there are on the new PLUS model, but they are still directional.

XZA3 in our size tire has been very hard to find. Looks like Michelin stopped production of XZA3 for many weeks months ago before it started up XZA3+. Tires were not available for over a month and are now on backorder again. Today Herman Power sold a set of six to MOT who will ship them to someone in Arizona or New Mexico who could not find them out there. Our tires were manufactured on May 10 2011 between 1pm & 10pm. DOT numbers are still only on one side of our new tires. The tire store told me that new auto tires now have DOT numbers on both sides, but the week-year date is still only on one side of new auto tires. Go figure that out.

The tire shop has a new type of dynamic spin balance that has a roller pressed against the tire during the spin to simulate tires under load, rather than free spinning. We have outward facing outside dual tire valve stems so our Pressure Pro sensor can face out. And their truck tire breakdown and balance machines have electric lift and movement so no one has to lift a tire to put it on the machine.

Nice to replace our 7 year old XZA3 tires.

Barry & Cindy

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #1 – July 09, 2011, 07:57:19 am

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – July 08, 2011, 11:17:12 pm

The tire store told me that new auto tires now have DOT numbers on both sides, but the week-year date is still only on one side of new auto tires. Go figure that out.

We have outward facing outside dual tire valve stems so our Pressure Pro sensor can face out.

Nice to replace our 7 year old XZA3 tires.

Barry & Cindy

Barry,

I'll hazard a guess that tire manufacturers don't want dates on both sides because that information can hinder sales if the tires sit in inventory too long.

Your outward facing valve stems on the dual tires is a real convenience. Too bad more dealers don't do this.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #2 – July 09, 2011, 11:45:30 am

The complete DOT number with date code is only on one side of all tires, because that part of the mold must be changed weekly. Changing the both halves of the mold would add no new information and just add to the cost of production.

Most competent tire dealers know to install the tires with the complete DOT code facing out/a readable direction.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #3 – July 09, 2011, 01:35:35 pm

Looks great. Do you mind sharing pricing? Also have you considered the Centramatic balancers or their ilk? Centramatic I have a trucker friend that swears by em'. I like the idea that they are balancing the wheel, brake & axle while you're driving. Would be interested in your opinion.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #4 – July 09, 2011, 03:09:57 pm

Ken, I have been running Centramatics for about three years now, love em. Started using them on the advice of Gary O on this forum and Willis H who owned a truck tire shop in Gadsden, AL.
Gary B

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #5 – July 09, 2011, 05:39:49 pm

Anyone know which model number fits the '95 era' Foretravel with disk brakes? 600? 900?

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #6 – July 09, 2011, 07:31:39 pm

Quote

Anyone know which model number fits the '95 era' Foretravel with disk brakes? 600? 900?

Dave Call Willis Horton, he is retired and now lives in FL but still sells centramatics. Tell him I said hello.
1-256-295-8270
Gary B

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #7 – July 10, 2011, 12:37:00 am

Michelin XZA3 tires are directional, so there is no choice on which side to face out, so manufacturing week/year can be easily read.

We do not believe or recommend Centramatic continuous balancers. Every bump may throw wheel out of balance. Very hard to verify they are working. May be good or may be no-good at keeping a tire in balance. Certainly they have a passionate following. I have seen a truck tire alignment shop remove them to fix a problematic front end. But their claims & display are hard to beat at getting the job done by balancing all rotating parts.

Our Michelin XZA3+ LR-H 275/80R22.5 cost us $600 a tire out the door with mounting and Road-Force dynamic spin balancing on all 6 tires, purchased July 8, 2011. We were also quite satisfied at the quality of customer service and installation team.

Most of the time the same tire size should be used when replacing tires. Within a manufacture any "model" number will work as they are basically interchangeable. Other manufacturer's tires may fit just fine as long as the size is the same. Foretravel used Michelin for many model years. We recommend getting a higher Load Range if two are offered for the same size. XZA3+ is considered by many to be the best "model" for our motorhomes and they usually are the most expensive.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #8 – July 10, 2011, 11:05:22 pm

Barry and ALL,

My Michelin "B" series XZA1's were overdue based on age (9 years +). Although, absent knowing their age, three different Michelin dealers in FL felt that my tires were entirely acceptable and appeared to be less than 4, maybe 5 years of age (see the worst checking, of the 6 tires, in the attached photos below). By the way, the long check marks were not there when I left FL in May, so the age checking was definitely beginning to accelerate.

I shopped tires again this spring, in several shops from FL to NH and decided to wait until I got back to NH, primarily due to being able to use my son's tools and the NH tax advantages.

When I recently picked up on the FOFUMS mention of Willis Horton, I talked with Willis and eventually purchased a set of late '09 XZA3's from him. Willis felt that the "climate controlled, no sunlight exposure" warehouse storage had not significantly aged these tires and the final cost ($462/tire) was over $100/tire better than any price that I could negotiate from FL to NH (and was actually a few dollars better than when I last purchased tires in VA in the fall of 2002). I had nothing but positive dealings with Willis Horton and highly recommend his advice (256-295-8270)!

6 ea. XZA3 275/80R 22.5 14ply LRG (mfg. 2009/10 thru 12)
(WH stored/no exposure to sunlight)
$450.00ea. $2700.00
1 pallet Estes Shipping from AL to NH $225.74
6 ea. Dismount/Polish rims inside & valve stem seats inside and outside/Mount
$20.00ea. $120.00
6 ea. New SS Valve Stems
$5.00ea. $30.00
6 ea. Allowance for old tires (mfg. 2002/03 thru 05)
$50.00ea. -$300.00 (Private Trucker)
Grand Total: $2,775.74
(NH has no sales tax and I had no balancing, disposal or shop fees)
($462.60/tire) out the door

It's very interesting to see the various perceptions about tire balancing. Engineering wise, some of the wackiest I've experienced have been in truck tire dealerships. FWIW, I'd like to contribute.

My son has put more than a 1M miles on his trucks, is a respected (engineering) perfectionist, does all of his own maintenance and I've come to respect his knowledge and experience a great deal. He follows the engineering KISS principles, as I do.

He has used Centramatics, for much of his Million miles, without negative experience (unlike mechanical weights, Equal, Counteract, etc.). Baring gross defects in a new tire, a properly mounted, Centramatic equipped tire will be in balance by 20 to 22 MPH. An imbalance vibration can't generally be perceived until one is above 35 MPH. The balancers are slightly audible as soon as you move the vehicle (so you know they have not been breached and are working, if you are concerned) and they are remarkably "Satin Smooth" at speed, to the uninitiated.

Regarding road hazards/bumps inducing an imbalance condition, from an engineering and physics perspective, above 35 MPH the centrifugal forces far overcome and mitigate any shock induced displacement forces on the balance medium (the relative forces, centrifugal vs. lateral displacement, are in 25 to 1 ratio at 30 MPH, and around 95 to 1 ratio at 60 MPH). Thus, a road shock has no appreciable effect in creating an imbalance in the balance medium. The distortion of the tire (from the impact and the subsequent harmonic oscillation in returning to the normal loaded tire configuration, however is sensed and is immediately reacted to by the balancing medium's dynamic balancing forces. Mechanical weights cannot do that. The medium is shot-sized balls made of hardened alloy that is carried in a proprietary synthetic liquid within the balancing ring. The assembly carries an unlimited mileage warranty, and 1.5 M miles of use is not unheard of.

So, a change in balancing hardware got added to my thinking:
1 set 600-630 Centramatic (Steer) incl. shipping $225.00
1 set 600-640 Centramatic (Drive) incl. shipping $225.00

If there is anything to not like, it is that the Centramatics are slightly visible through the access holes in our Alcoa rims, and while they may be "simple dynamic balancing beautiful", they are not all that beautiful in appearance. I knew this going into my recent change. That cosmetic attribute had kept me from trying Centramatics for many years but the smoothness of operation is so dramatic that I'm freshly converted (over Equal and Counteract which I never had any negative experience with either - just use nitrogen, CO2 or very dry air - ALWAYS). I'll take the very slight hit in appearance in exchange for a balance that is continually adjusting (dynamically balancing) over all rotating assembly, road and speed conditions. From an engineering perspective, tires at work are not round all the way through each revolution, and no mechanical balancing leads to a perfect balance, other than at one specific RPM. That is the RPM at which it is balanced or the range over which it is averaged in today's balancing machine technology (an important compromise that needs to be understood).

To eliminate Pressure Pro Sensor variables (KISS again) I also did away with the valve stem extensions on my inner duals and turned the stubby new stems outward on the outer duals. Contrary to a previous post, Herman Power Tire Co. in Nac. does not have, never had, doesn't know of ever having seen inner dual long stems that are long enough to reach out through the access holes to mount our Pressure Pro sensors.
As with several other tire stores, Herman PT Co. reps. (3) were great and worked with me (extensively) in trying to find some. If anyone has ever actually found single piece long stems that reach through the outer duals, it's beyond me being able to locate that person.

I made myself a little tool to install the PP Sensors on the short inner dual tire stems. It works great. I got the idea from Pressure Pro because they sell a "Sensor Installation Tool" for just $4.00. I just made one to save the shipping hassle.

So that's my recent saga.
FWIW,
Neal
Very pleased now with six (or more) potential problems behind me

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #9 – July 10, 2011, 11:46:15 pm

Hi Neal,
Great testimony you've written. Out of curiosity, would you describe how you made your TMS installation handle?

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #10 – July 11, 2011, 12:02:51 am

Quote from: Jim Frerichs – July 10, 2011, 11:46:15 pm

Hi Neal,
Great testimony you've written. Out of curiosity, would you describe how you made your TMS installation handle?

Jim,
It's just a 3/8" socket, crutch tip, and 3/8" drive extension
I'll take a couple of pictures tomorrow and post it back to you.
Neal

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #11 – July 11, 2011, 04:34:14 am

Mr Pillsbury,
I upped your karma on that post. I have used the Centamatics on two motorhome for over 16 years. I find them to be as advertized.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #12 – July 11, 2011, 04:45:18 am

Mr. Pillsbury.
I have upped your karma on this posting.
I have used the centramatic's on two motorhomes for over 16 years. I have never had a problem.
The production facility is within in 5 miles of me. I have visited it several times with people who have purchased Centramatic after the visit.

On the duals I have the "Crossfire" inflaters. (does away with the long stem issue) The Centramatic keeps the complete assembly in balance. If you are not familiar with the Crossfire I will sent you the web site.

PS my wife was from Alton NH

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #13 – July 11, 2011, 06:54:36 am

What do you do when the magic Centramatic's do not solve the balance problem ?
Some days the shaking is almost tolerable, then you hit a bump and it takes a few miles to get back to barely tolerable, never smooth ?
Wonder why I have no time for the Magic Powder and/or Magic Centramatics ?
I had to be educated right from the hip pocket.
Funny thing, every tire shop is an expert, however very few know what they are doing .

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #14 – July 11, 2011, 08:40:01 am

Quote from: Neal Pillsbury – July 10, 2011, 11:05:22 pm

Barry and ALL,

Contrary to a previous post, Herman Power Tire Co. in Nac. does not have, never had, doesn't know of ever having seen inner dual long stems that are long enough to reach out through the access holes to mount our Pressure Pro sensors.

So that's my recent saga.
FWIW,
Neal
Very pleased now with six (or more) potential problems behind me

So would the person who posted earlier that Herman Power had single piece stems for inside dual tires, please let us know what he has on his inside rear dual tires.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #15 – July 11, 2011, 09:20:06 am

Glad you got a good price on 2009 tires. By the way, all tire rubber ages over time whether inside or out, but sunlight speeds things up.

When the tire is 7-10 years old based upon DOT date they should be replaced to prevent potential blowouts when driving. Better pre-sale storage environment does not extend the time.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #16 – July 11, 2011, 09:57:24 am

OK I know this has probably been asked a million times but here is one more time.
I get different answers. Do I take the tire pressure when the tire is COLD or HOT???
Pressure goes up after several miles of driving, so maintaining a certain pressure seems impossible ? DAN

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #17 – July 11, 2011, 10:10:28 am

Cold

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #18 – July 11, 2011, 10:10:43 am

Quote from: Dan J. Stansel – July 11, 2011, 09:57:24 am

OK I know this has probably been asked a million times but here is one more time.
I get different answers. Do I take the tire pressure when the tire is COLD or HOT???
Pressure goes up after several miles of driving, so maintaining a certain pressure seems impossible ? DAN

All tire company inflation charts are for COLD PSI ONLY. Cold is defined as "before driving" at whatever the ambient temperature is.

Brett

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #19 – July 11, 2011, 10:14:45 am

Tks Brett. That clears that up. Got the coach weighed so now to put in the right pressure. I am thinking 100 in front and 90 in rear for now. After I get it loaded I will weigh it again and adjust.

DAN

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #20 – July 11, 2011, 10:23:57 am

Question on ambient temperature. My pressure pros show 100 front 94 rear yesterday morning at 64 degrees. This morning P.P. show 106 front 97 rear at 72 degrees. I would be adjusting air on a daily basic. Same time of day so sun is not a factor. My thinking might be wrong. Remember who is posting..

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #21 – July 11, 2011, 10:32:39 am

Jeff,

First, and most important-- SEND ME SOME OF THAT 64 DEGREE WEATHER. 102 here yesterday in northern Arkansas. Guess we haven't headed far enough north.

Yes, with large temperature swings, one could easily get carried away with tire pressure. Rough rule of thumb is that PSI changes 1 PSI for each 10 degrees F temperature change.

My suggestion is to understand the charts. All tire inflation charts give the MINIMUM PSI for a given weight. To keep from "over-thinking" it, many of us add 5 PSI to that minimum. That would cover you for a 50 degree F drop in temperature. More than that-- it might be time to move to a better climate.

Brett

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #22 – July 11, 2011, 03:46:14 pm

Brett,

After a month in Nac we are staying in Leadville, Co. and this 60 degree temp for a month. Nac was brutal.

I understand the pressure charts and as soon as I get this coach weighed will follow your suggestions. I also know a number of owners who had the same question.

Thanks again.

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #23 – July 11, 2011, 03:55:02 pm

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – July 11, 2011, 09:20:06 am

Glad you got a good price on 2009 tires. By the way, all tire rubber ages over time whether inside or out, but sunlight speeds things up.

When the tire is 7-10 years old based upon DOT date they should be replaced to prevent potential blowouts when driving. Better pre-sale storage environment does not extend the time.

Barry,
You are absolutely correct. Nothing can extend the lifetime (from the date of manufacture) and many, many things can shorten the lifetime, ultraviolet light exposure and ozone being two of the worst, beyond underinflation induced dynamic heating and impacting road hazards.
Many owners are aware of the routine washing and tire protection product hazards as well. But it behooves us all to periodically review what the manufacturer says about caring for their tires. I attached what I use from Michelin. Following this safely got me 9+ years out of the last set.
Neal

Quote from: Jim Frerichs – July 10, 2011, 11:46:15 pm

Hi Neal, Great testimony you've written. Out of curiosity, would you describe how you made your TMS installation handle?

Jim, In the attached pictures, you can see that I just bandsawed off the end of a $0.39 True Value Hardware store crutch tip, and slipped one end over an 11/16" socket. Then I just use a 3/8' drive extension as a handle to thread on the Pressure Pro TPMS Sensor.
Now, one has to get down low to have a good view of the inner dual tire stem, and then be very gentle with the process, because one could easily cross thread or otherwise screw up the assembly, but if you are careful, it is easy to "feel" the thread engagement and easy to hear the dill valve expressing air as you near the seated condition. The modified crutch tip has plenty of holding power to apply and then, later, remove the TPMS Sensor. I put a tie wrap on the socket to keep the crutch tip from being pushed back as I push the tip on over the sensor during a removal.
Neal

Quote from: Dave M – July 11, 2011, 06:54:36 am

What do you do when the magic Centramatic's do not solve the balance problem ? Some days the shaking is almost tolerable, then you hit a bump and it takes a few miles to get back to barely tolerable, never smooth ? Wonder why I have no time for the Magic Powder and/or Magic Centramatics ? I had to be educated right from the hip pocket. Funny thing, every tire shop is an expert, however very few know what they are doing .

Dave, What you are describing (vibration after hitting a bump) is a "Free" vibration vs. a "Forced" Vibration. Centramatics and balancing powders/beads cannot overcome "Free" vibrations that are not radiating perpendicular to the axis of the wheel hub. I grant you that vibration diagnosis (beyond first order harmonic "Forced" vibration), generally exceeds the intelectual capacity of the layman and the "Run-of the-mill" truck tire store. It isn't all that difficult though. Here's a good, free, primer that you might find interesting: http://tinyurl.com/6xboezx
This is simple stuff as compared with the routine PM and CM Vibrational Analysis of large rotating equipment in Power Plants where the rotating assemblies can exceed hundreds of tons and the long term life of the equipment depends upon keeping total displacement down in the microns total displacement range.
Neal

Quote from: George Stoltz – July 11, 2011, 08:40:01 am

............................So would the person who posted earlier that Herman Power had single piece stems for inside dual tires, please let us know what he has on his inside rear dual tires.

George, I think that we need to have Dave M crawl under his 500 HP beast and take pictures for us. Under the "TPMS Questions" thread, responses 35 and 41, Dave mentions the Herman Power Tire Nac solution to our long term quest to find single piece tire stems (stems that are long enough to reach from the inner dual out through the outer dual access hole). I was elated at the news, but alas, it didn't pan out when I contacted Herman's. I've looked every way I can think of on the internet and worked with Alcoa reps and several tire stores to no avail.
Dave -- I assume they put an extension on the stem that you didn't notice?
Neal

Re: New Michelin tires

Reply #24 – July 11, 2011, 04:17:20 pm

Neal, glad to see you back posting on the Forum. You always seem to do your homework. Excellent posts.

Where do you get the Centramatics for that price and how do I know what size to order. I checked their web site and its pretty confusing.

Bill C, which ones did you order for your U300?

Affiliate Notice