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Problem starting engine and volt gage

August 07, 2011, 08:32:53 am

Friday morning I drove to the gas station to fill up my 1998 U270.  I shut the engine off.  After filling the tank with diesel, my engine wouldn't start.  It acted like it was starting, but would immediately shut off. I tried it several times with the same results.  After waiting about 45 minutes for some help to come, I tried it again and it started.  The mechanic that came said it was probably the Fuel Shutoff Solenoid.  When I started down the road, I noticed that the Volt gage on the dash was showing a little less than 12 volts.  I shut off the lights and dash AC and the voltage began to rise slowly. After about 45 minutes of driving the voltage came up to 14.  I turned the lights back on and AC and it stayed at 14 until I stopped again for fuel.  This time I did not stop the engine, but when I got back on the road the voltage had dropped to 12.  I was about 15 minutes from home.  The gage stayed at about 12 til I got home.  I turned it off and haven't tried to start it again. 

Could the starting problem and voltage be related.  My thoughts are alternator or battery.

Jim Broadhurst

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Re: Problem starting engine and volt gage

Reply #1 – August 07, 2011, 08:40:39 am

Check connections. If it was the alternator you would not get a rise in the volts.  If it was a battery you would not have been able to start it. So my bet is ground connection or connections at the terminals as the first place to check.
I never shut down when I fuel up. I had a bad starter  solenoid but learned how to jump that to get it to start.  I guess to me it is easier to leave everything running... I am not stopped that long and you would have to start up to pull forward then stop to go in a pay and then start again... so I just leave it running usually for the AC.

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Reply #2 – August 07, 2011, 08:53:06 am

Agree with John.

First place to check is all battery connections for cleanliness and tightness.

Brett

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Reply #3 – August 07, 2011, 09:28:05 am

Thanks for the input.  I will check the connections after I return from Church today.  Start it and see if the volt gage.  I will let you know my results.

Jim

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Re: Problem starting engine and volt gage

Reply #4 – August 07, 2011, 11:16:25 am

Fuel shutoff is easy to diagnose and temporarily repair on C-8.3 engines. Find it on curb side of engine near fuel injector pump. Linkage should move easily by hand when engine is off. And the solenoid should FULLY snap up to allow fuel to flow when engine is started.

Solenoid is pulled up (fuel can flow) with strong coils that are only energized when starter is engaged. Smaller coils keep solenoid up when ignition is on, but cannot pull solenoid up.

If solenoid does not move when engine is started, fuel will not flow and engine will not start.

Partial upward movement will allow engine to start just fine, but with limited fuel flow, RPMs will be limited. Solenoid can hang up from lack of lubrication or misaligned connection at fuel injector pump. And limited RPMs are often diagnosed as fuel or air filter restrictions or bad fuel. Important to check fuel shut off solenoid before changing filters.

For a temporary fix, with engine off, manually push linkage fully up and hold it up with a plastic cable tie. Engine will start, but not shut off until cable tie is removed. You can drive with this arrangement for weeks until you find repair facility.

Cummins has a new upgraded, larger, stronger solenoid (for a lot of $). Unplug wire, remove a few bolts, replace bracket & solenoid, plug cable back in and you are good to go. Changing to this new solenoid may be a worthwhile upgrade before problems occur.

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Reply #5 – August 07, 2011, 11:39:49 am

Barry has that  right, some times it is simpler to just remove the solenoid until you can solve the problem.  Don't forget to manually shut it down when you get to destination.
This one nice thing about the manual Cummins engines, you can get it home.
Nothing is idiot proof, but things can be worked around if you understand how it works.
Cheers

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Reply #6 – August 07, 2011, 02:43:05 pm

I would suspect the Fuel Return Valve is leaking fuel back and your engine is not getting fuel.
Pull it and then pull the spring out and stretch it out a little and replace it.  It should work fine after you do that.  Unless, of course you really do have a low voltage problem affecting the fuel shut off valve. 

Regards,

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Reply #7 – August 07, 2011, 06:26:45 pm

Thanks for all of the input.  I have returned from church, and have checked the battery connections.  I took all off and cleaned them.  I checked to voltage of batteries with engine stopped.  It read 12.93.  I then started the engine and tested battery voltage with engine idling.  It read 12.73.

I then checked voltage on the alternator without engine running.  It reads 3.93.  I just checked the alternator with engine at 1500 RPM and it read  13.3.  The dash volt gage stays at about 12 volts.

I am attaching some pictures of the alternator.  It is 13 years old.

Any ideas?

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Reply #8 – August 07, 2011, 08:14:24 pm

I suggest that you spray some Liquid Wrench, PB Blaster or other nut loosening treatment and after a while remove all of the alternator connections and clean them with wire brush, sandpaper, etc. and then re-connect them.
While you are doing that, I would create some wires with ring connectors and install them (one each) to all four of your alternator connections so you can run the wires out to easily monitor voltages without standing on your head.  Makes is much easier to do voltage checks.
Regards,

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Reply #9 – August 08, 2011, 02:47:08 pm

Lot of good advise above. Corrosion is constantly lurking in most all electrical systems. Cleaning battery, alternator, cable connections at EACH end is important. Not just the positive cable either. Problems with grounding may show up in starting, a dim headlight, turn signals that light the taillights and flash slowly are just a few of the symptoms of a bad ground.

One reason why I installed an extra ground to chassis cable on the start batteries. I also installed two digital voltmeters where the CRT for the monitor was. Can monitor both start and house voltage for unusual readings and catch a problem ahead of time (maybe).

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Reply #10 – August 11, 2011, 05:58:03 pm

Just an update.  Had to have alternator rebuilt.  Just put it back on and voltage setting on 14.  Hopefully the alternator problem caused the fuel shutoff soleniod not to stay open.  Starting fine now.

Thanks for all of your input.

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