GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Topic: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL (Read 1326 times) previous topic - next topic

GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

August 09, 2011, 01:00:37 pm

There has been a lot of discussion lately regarding tank valves BUT, none of the commentary assists me with my current problem.
The dump valve on the grey tank no longer works and the tank is FULL
The metal shaft that has the handle on it, has apparently pulled out of the plastic valve itself. It is totally free. Nothing is apparently connected to the valve blade. There is 100+ gallons of grey effluent behind the valve.
I am searching for ideas beyond what I have considered before attempting the FIX.

I considered drilling a 3/16" hole in the back side of the valve and then inserting a 3/16" rod into the hole and then tapping on the end of the rod to open the valve and discharge the effluent. Problem: There is minimal room behind the valve to be able to easily drill a hole. Only about 2-2.5 inches. Not an easy choice.

I talked to Valterra and an additional suggestion was to remove the metal shaft and turn it around and hammer it in to the valve, where they say, that many times IT will work to open the valve enough to drain. This may be my first action as it is easiest.

Another solution offered by Valterra was to, remove the steel rod completely and then saw off the entire valve sheath (or whatever you might call it) where the "patent pending" label is located, which will then expose the actual valve that could be extracted or opened to drain the tank. This may be my second approach in the event first action does not work. Sawing will be difficult in the restricted space, but doable.

At this point I am out of ideas and am thinking someone has figured out a better or easier way to get this done.

How about it, who has a miracle procedure?
Comments? Suggestions?

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #1 – August 09, 2011, 01:03:30 pm

Jon, Space to saw the valver apart may be limited but maybe you could use a Dremel tool with a cutoff wheel to do it.
Good Luck
Gary B

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #2 – August 09, 2011, 01:34:49 pm

I would do the hammer trick first. If you can just get it to bite a little and crack the valve just a little you will be home free. It may take a while for the water to drain but at least it will drain and you can then replace the valve. You might try sharpening the rod and hammering if you can't get it to bite.

Another possible solution would be to simply put a pan under the valve unscrew the valve until water starts coming out then screw it back until it stops. Then empty the pan then repeat until your 100 gallons is gone. That would be a lot of work. Better find a big pan to drain in. Since it's just gray water I'd consider just dumping it if you can find an appropriate place to do it. A dry field somewhere?? Do a farmer a favor? Duh! You would have to pull the fiberglass under panels for this to work....

Sorry that's all I got... Look at the bright side it's not the black water!

see ya
ken

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #3 – August 09, 2011, 01:39:51 pm

Jon, Keith at Encore sawed my black tank off at the slider, drilled a 1/8th hole, in stalled a long deck screw and pulled the valve open, this is on a 97 u270.

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #4 – August 09, 2011, 03:14:48 pm

Maybe a coarse thread pipe tap will catch enough so you can pull the valve open?

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #5 – August 09, 2011, 03:26:51 pm

Can you push a tooth pick in there then try to screw the metal shaft back in?

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #6 – August 09, 2011, 04:32:35 pm

I just built a 4 lawn timber high retaining wall in the back yard this last weekend and used 8" long deck screws (5/16" driver). Those things are healthy! They come 10" long on down. Big Orange Box.

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #7 – August 09, 2011, 05:06:28 pm

Jon, if you happen to have or can borrow a dent puller slide hammer, try screwing it in first and use the impact of the slide to move the valve. If you can't get a slide hammer, try screwing in a coarse thread round eyelet or hook. Attach rod to the eyelet and attach a vise grip to the other end of the rod. Start tapping on the vise grip. The sharp impact of tapping will be less likely to strip the threads than a strong constant pull and it will break up any corrosion that is holding the valve in place.

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #8 – August 09, 2011, 05:14:24 pm

Another possibility, tap the slide, and screw in a threaded rod, bolt or what ever. Of course not seeing what you are faced with in detail, it is just a guess.
Good luck

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #9 – August 09, 2011, 06:19:46 pm

Hi Jon,
Can you get a small hole saw, about one inch diameter, attached to an angle drill, in there. Set the pilot drill to a very short depth, and open one side of the valve. There is enough room on my 1997 U 320. Once you get one side open, maybe you can get that slide to slide.

Raymond

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #10 – August 09, 2011, 06:30:47 pm

Anyone ever had any dealings with an electric valve, most also have a manual mode in case of elec. failure. jc

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #11 – August 09, 2011, 08:48:35 pm

Had two on my SOB for three years. no problems. Will replace theses when they show sign of overwork.

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #12 – August 10, 2011, 12:16:21 pm

Jon
I drilled holes in the top of the valve bodies to allow lubricating with vegetable oil or dish soap. When draining tanks only 20% full, no problem, but when draining full tanks, water squirted out the lubricating holes. I installed small screws with "O" rings to seal the holes. If you cut the top off the valve cover and open the valve, water may come out the open top making a mess.

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #13 – August 12, 2011, 12:24:31 am

Jon, use a Dremel to cut off as much of the sheath as you need to access blade. My Dremel has been my best purchase in many years.

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #14 – August 14, 2011, 09:38:24 pm

Jon,
Did you get that valve open? What worked?

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #15 – August 14, 2011, 10:30:53 pm

John, if you are still fighting the valve, might I suggest that you take your threaded rod along to Fastenal and get a pulley tap one size larger and then retap the stripped hole. Pulley taps are available in various lengths and sizes. They are called pulley taps because additional reach is necessary to tap the hubs on pulleys. Pulley tap drills are also available. Both of these items have long shanks to provide reach.

You might have to clearance the housing hole so the tap will pass thru easily. If after tapping use the tap to open the slide valve. After all this, if you get it open I would replace the entire valve assembly.

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #16 – August 14, 2011, 11:51:31 pm

How about putting epoxy glue on end of rod then reinserting into original hole, let it cure, then give it a try. Good luck

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #17 – August 15, 2011, 01:14:42 pm

Quote from: rbark – August 14, 2011, 11:51:31 pm

How about putting epoxy glue on end of rod then reinserting into original hole, let it cure, then give it a try. Good luck

If you use epoxy glue, be sure to spread Vaseline or a similar bond breaker over anything you don't want stuck together.

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #18 – August 18, 2011, 03:00:33 pm

STATUS REPORT........

The replacement of the dump valves on the grey and black water tanks is ALMOST complete.
The process required a lot more work than I had anticipated due to the fact that no consideration was given by the engineers, to anyone who had to replace the valves after the initial installation at point of production.

To do the job properly (without personal injury), it was necessary to remove both of the bulkheads to provide adequate space and access, in which to work, and, to be able to separate the plumbing adequately to allow installation of both of the valves. The grey valve COULD have been replaced without removing the bottom section of bulkhead using brute force and ignorance but, I decided overall to to the job as best I properly could do it.

In order to remove the bulkhead bottom section, it was necessary to remove the rubber mat that is glued to the floor and halfway up the bottom bulkhead section. Bummer!
If you do not remove it, you can not get access to the bottom screws that hold the bottom of the bulkhead. If you destroy the black rubber mat while removing it, keep the pieces as you can purchase new mat at Home Depot and use the pieces as a pattern.

Once you have access to all of the screws and remove them, the bulkhead will come loose if you can remove the sealant that they have used around the whole thing to make it look pretty. Later, you can spend your evenings trying to get the old caulking, silicone, sealant, whatever off of the bulkhead ready for reinstallation.

Depending, you may find that the aluminum strip that covers up the joint between the two bulkhead panels has been removed before, or several times, so that who ever did it the last couple of times has overtightened the screws and they now no longer hold anything tight. The screws just spin in their holes.
The solution was to obtain a piece of oak 1/2" x 1" x 24" and glue it to the backside bottom of the top bulkhead panel so there would be something for the screws to bite into for retention.

Amazingly, the water connections for the external shower and the potable water fill connection did NOT leak when I reinstalled the bottom panel and made the connections.

As I am awaiting something leaking or some other associated problem, I have not installed the new black rubber flooring tread yet. I am considering the various methods of securing it so that it could be much easier to remove if another valve fails or something behind the bulkhead starts leaking.

OBSERVATIONS:
This was much harder than I figured. However, if I ever have to do it again, it will be a whole lot faster and easier now that I have done it.

The factory could have figured out a better way to do the whole sanitary thing.

For those of you who have not peered behind your bulkhead panels, you might want to do it. Who knows what's going on back there.......

MORE LATER.........................

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #19 – August 18, 2011, 03:18:46 pm

Jon,at the bottom of the lower bulkhead,I split the mat with my retreaders knife,removed the panel, replaced panel and sealed with Hi Temp silicone.

Re: GREY GRAY AND BLACK WATER VALVES BROKEN CLOSED TANK FULL

Reply #20 – August 19, 2011, 12:06:30 pm

I agree with looking behind the outer bulkhead in the utility bay. I rmoved the top bulkhead to do some electirical updates and discovered that two of the bolts holding the black water dump valve were loose and one nut was laying on the floor. Black water had been leaking and it was stinky and quite a mess. I cut the top bulkead in half so access is now easier, and used larger stainless screws. I did not use sealing caulking and do not know why this bulkhead was caulked when there is an air vent on the side to allow heated air to circulate into the storage areas.

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