99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Topic: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles? (Read 2506 times) previous topic - next topic

99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

August 25, 2011, 06:35:26 pm

Hello all!
I have just joined this group and will diligently sift through the archives to glean what information I can, but I am hoping to get some current valuation ideas and things to watch for when checking out one of these fine coaches. My partner and I are looking to buy a Diesel Pusher to go full timing in, and one that has caught our eye is a 1999 U270. My significant other is in Canada right now to settle her estate because her father passed away awhile back. So that is our stake and we need to make a good choice because the right motorhome is at the center of our plans for the near future. She had previously owned a 29' class C and I haver never owned an RV. I did drive a 35' school bus for about a year some 28 years ago or so, so I am not intimidated by the size.

So far I have test driven a 1998 37' Gulfstream Sunchaser and a 1994 38' Kountry Star. The Gulfstream, while beautiful on the inside wallowed like a pig in the mud with every manuver and, according to the wall plate, had a pathetic NCC of less than 2000lbs. I figure that chassis was just loaded to close to its limits for good handling. The Newmar handled much better, but on the highway, it needed constant course corrections to stay planted in the lane. We were going to take a look at a 95' american Eagle. I really liked the layout inside of it better than anything else I have looked at online, even considering that it doesn't have a slide out, and the woodwork looked beautiful in the pics. Unfortunately, the dealer let me know that somebody came and put a deposit on it so that one is out of the picture (maybe that is a good thing, who knows?). Having learned about the various chassis types, I have been impressed with everything I have heard about Foretravel's construction methods, capacities and such. In fact the only real negative I have come across is a relatively wide turning circle.

Just last night, I noticed a 1999 36' Foretravel U270 at a dealer not far away, priced in the mid $40's. It has just come on the market (I know because I have been obsessively pouring over search results for a month or more now while trying to educate myself). It is a bit shorter than I was hoping for but chances are, that we would not be able to get a 40' Foretravel for what we can afford (we intend to pay cash). It looks awfully nice and supposedly has all the service records, was always serviced at the Foretravel factory, and was owned by an airline pilot. The only negative I can see is that it has over 140k miles... I would appreciate any and all advice about this model and vintage of coach. I love the idea of the Monocoque construction, Air Disc brakes all round, the 350hp Cummins, etc, etc.

So what do the members of this group think? Should my target be lower milage coach of lesser pedigree, or is this coach just getting started at over 140k miles? Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, Don
Nothing yet, but hoping for a nice Foretravel in the near future!

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #1 – August 25, 2011, 06:44:04 pm

140k miles with good maintenance records is just fine. For peace of mind, in addition to looking over the records, do an oil, coolant and perhaps transmission fluid analysis. Get them from any diesel dealer.

BTW, 140 k miles in 12 years is really not high mileage. In fact, IMO closer to idea. It is the ones that have sat for years that are mechanically "challenged".

Brett

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #2 – August 25, 2011, 06:49:33 pm

Don,

Welcome to the forum. You will learn a great deal here. As to the American Eagle. In 2009 my wife and I attended the Ladies Driving School at the factory. There was a couple in attendance that recently bought a newer American Eagle. Apparently, the husband of the couple was so upset at owning the Eagle after he saw what Foretravel had to offer and he was really unhappy. Someone did you a favor.

Foretravel builds a remarkable motorhome. You can pay more or you can pay less. But it would be hard to find better.

As to mileage. If the motorhome you are looking at had the engine properly taken care of, then the engine is barely broken in. Final thought: it is inconceivable that an airline pilot would not have taken care of his motorhome.

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #3 – August 25, 2011, 07:02:38 pm

I am with George and Wolfe10, For me, I would enjoy that coach a lot, the mileage is not the big issue, it has the ISC 350 hp, 6 speed Allison with Retarder, has all the right items as I can see.
It will be running fine long after you do an upgrade to a newer and maybe fancier Foretravel. And the price seems low to me.
Anyway enjoy and good luck on what ever you do.

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #4 – August 25, 2011, 07:55:05 pm

Thanks! That sounds like a good idea... how much of these fluids do you need to have an analysis done? What can they tell you based on the results of such tests? Remember, though I am of an analytical bent and mechanically inclined, I am a complete newbie when comes to motorhomes and diesels!

Quote from: wolfe10 – August 25, 2011, 06:44:04 pm

140k miles with good maintenance records is just fine. For peace of mind, in addition to looking over the records, do an oil, coolant and perhaps transmission fluid analysis. Get them from any diesel dealer.

BTW, 140 k miles in 12 years is really not high mileage. In fact, IMO closer to idea. It is the ones that have sat for years that are mechanically "challenged".

Brett

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #5 – August 25, 2011, 08:57:45 pm

I agree with the others who have responded. We purchased a 36' 1999 U 295 3 years ago and have been very happy with it. We don't have any slides but we also don't have any leaks. We've owned other brands but nothing compares to the Foretravel. If everything checks out OK I'm sure you'll have many years and miles of enjoyment. Hope to see you on the road soon.

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #6 – August 25, 2011, 09:00:50 pm

Quote from: acousticart – August 25, 2011, 07:55:05 pm

Thanks! That sounds like a good idea... how much of these fluids do you need to have an analysis done? What can they tell you based on the results of such tests?

It only takes a few ounces for the analysis. They can tell a lot about the condition of each of the fluids and the condition of the machinery in which they ran. Again, most any diesel dealer (Caterpillar, Cummins, etc) has available and can do the tests.

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #7 – August 25, 2011, 09:43:28 pm

Don,
So far you're getting all the right advice, in my opinion as well. If you plan to fulltime, then the Foretravel is the right rig for the job. The coach and chassis works are 100% custom made and/or assembled using the top of the line items and components.

You should make sure to budget sufficiently for the normal maintenance items and some upgrades you'll likely want to make to the coach. If you're handy, you can save lots by changing your own fluids, filters and the likely monthly maintenence items that pop up here & there when you fulltime. Some upgrades can also be done if you have the right tools and are handy from a cabinet-maker pointof view, e.g. TV to flat screen upgrade, surround sound, etc.

If you go to my profile, under the photos/files section, I have a spreadsheet that breaks out my cost experience.
here's the link: http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=926;dl

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #8 – August 25, 2011, 09:55:16 pm

Quote from: acousticart – August 25, 2011, 06:35:26 pm

The Gulfstream, while beautiful on the inside ...

If you think the Gulfstream was beautiful, wait until you get inside the Foretravel. Look at the quality details. Open cabinets. Use pocket door(s). Activate switches. Pull out drawers and notice how they can't open during travel.

I've been in a 2006 Gulfstream in a showroom and the poor craftsmanship was evident right from the start.

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #9 – August 25, 2011, 09:56:05 pm

The 270 is the "lowest end" of the Foretravel line. That means the only difference between it and a top of the line 320 is the engine, transmission, and choice of wood. The rest Is options. What that means is the chassis is the same, the build quality is the same. The coaches are all built on the same line by the same people using the same materials. You get the same quality and care no matter which coach you decide on...

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #10 – August 25, 2011, 10:07:45 pm

I know it is difficult for someone new to RVs but you are entering the realm of commercial grade vehicles. If they wore out at anywhere close to 140K, every trucking firm in the US would be bankrupt. It is a non-issue.

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #11 – August 25, 2011, 10:35:30 pm

I am looking forward to it! Hopefully this local U270 will still be there tomorrow and my darlin' one won't mind using part of her birthday checking it out!

Quote from: George Stoltz – August 25, 2011, 09:55:16 pm

Quote from: acousticart – August 25, 2011, 06:35:26 pm

The Gulfstream, while beautiful on the inside ...

If you think the Gulfstream was beautiful, wait until you get inside the Foretravel. Look at the quality details. Open cabinets. Use pocket door(s). Activate switches. Pull out drawers and notice how they can't open during travel.

I've been in a 2006 Gulfstream in a showroom and the poor craftsmanship was evident right from the start.

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #12 – August 25, 2011, 10:40:21 pm

Well, I am okay with oak, it is after all extremely durable and stable. As for the engine trans combo, the 350hp is more than the American eagle had and a whole lot more than the Newmar that I drove. From what I am learning about the transmission retarder, that seems like an incredible mountain saftey feature to help keep the brakes cool for those emergency situations... I think I am sold. Now to bring my signicant other on board with it. There just don't seem to be many of these beasts in the So Cal area for sale.

Quote from: Dave Head – August 25, 2011, 09:56:05 pm

The 270 is the "lowest end" of the Foretravel line. That means the only difference between it and a top of the line 320 is the engine, transmission, and choice of wood. The rest Is options. What that means is the chassis is the same, the build quality is the same. The coaches are all built on the same line by the same people using the same materials. You get the same quality and care no matter which coach you decide on...

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #13 – August 25, 2011, 10:44:43 pm

While i concur with all of the above you might find that after a while a 40' unit looks a lot better as full time coach. Also look at a few coaches both for sale and owned. It will let you know what options are important to you and what's available. Some coaches have been very well looked after by their owners and some not so. Mileage is not as important as good preventive maintenance. These coaches will outlast most every other on the road. At 150k miles mine is in great shape, everything works and operates as new, It's a tribute to Foretravel build quality and previous owners. Also Foretravels have a very good support system both by the factory and other owners.

Take your time and, as there are so many various option put on these coaches there is bound to be one out there that will fit your needs. I suggest that you go to a site called oodle.com and register for email notifications of any Foretravels that appear for sale anywhere on the internet. Also read Barry's site - FORETRAVEL Motorhomes service and Repair Information - I learned a lot from it.

Good luck with your search.

Keith

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #14 – August 25, 2011, 11:10:46 pm

Echoing what others have said - 140K is nothing to worry about especially if maintenance is done. Fluid analysis can reassure you that there aren't any unusual signs of wear.

Barry and Cindy fulltime in a 1997 36' U270 and their coach feels very open and comfortable to me.

Quote from: Keith and Joyce – August 25, 2011, 10:44:43 pm

Also Foretravels have a very good support system both by the factory and other owners.

And we have Foreforums. OK, I'm biased, but I think we have the best owners' forum out there. We certainly have the best forum members!

Michelle

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #15 – August 25, 2011, 11:38:16 pm

Quote from: Steve & Michelle – August 25, 2011, 11:10:46 pm

Barry and Cindy fulltime in a 1997 36' U270 and their coach feels very open and comfortable to me.

Our 36' U295 has been most comfortable, and we have been full-timing for seven months now. It is our first coach, and it is also our first full-timing experience. We have not once wished that we had opted for a larger coach, and find that we have sufficient storage, plenty of CCC, and comfortable living areas, including the fact that we also have a miniature schnauzer. As you can see, he appears to be quite comfortable in "his" chair!

Lastly, we have also been pleased with our Honda CRV as a tow vehicle (4 down - no dolly). Happy hunting! And we wish for you what we were able to accomplish... finding our "third coach" FIRST!

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #16 – August 25, 2011, 11:42:58 pm

Do not even hesitate, and do NOT be beguiled by a newer coach that has a somewhat fancier interior or shinier fridge or whatever. The Foretravel is a better coach in every respect. Our 1993 had features that are upgrades on some new coaches today! You will be hard pressed to find many new coaches that offer a retarder, except as a very expensive upgrade. Buy that coach and then treat your sweetie to Ladies Driving School in Nacogdoches at the Factory in November. She will love it! The difference between a 36' and a 40' just depends on how in love with "stuff" you are. After a few months of cramming every inch full, you begin to weed out the nonsense and live with less ... and you don't miss it!

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #17 – August 26, 2011, 12:14:01 am

Just reread your post about the 36 feet angst. We looked and looked but found the 36 feet was perfect size for the two of us along with big Koda. We take others along occasionally and have no problems. Both sizes have their fans but you will not be unhappy with 36 feet. Sometimes less can be more.

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #18 – August 26, 2011, 12:22:25 am

Don,
Welcome. Now on my third FT. First was a 1989 Oshkosh rear engine Ford 460 gasser, 36 feet. Blew sit up or I would still have that coach. Traded it for a 1999 U-270. Loved the coach, Thad a washer/ dryer, uline ice maker, ISM, 6 speed Allison with retarder, electric hose and shore power reels. Redid the couch in ultra leather, out in flat screen TVs and used a portable dish. Had Xtreme in NAC repaint the stripes and buff out the interior.

ISC pulled strong, diesel genny was great. Propane furnace noisy, as compared to Auqua-hot, no slides. So I sold the 1999 at MOT, and bought a 2000 U-320 single slide, 40 footer.

Used to lust after American Eagle. Had other MH many years ago (can you remember GMC Palm Beach?). Then I drove the FT. Was sold right then. Goodbye American Eagle. Like you I am a cash buyer.

Pay no mind on the 140K mileage. If you look at the NADA guides, there is no mileage adjustment for diesel MH. Most Cummins Diesels do not get their best mileage until they reach 80,000 - 120,000 miles, ask the Cummins service center closest to you.

40 vs. 36? 320 vs. 270? Side vs. No slide? Those are really only budget questions. For me, I like the larger coach, slide, and aqua hot. But I would rather have a 1993 FT than a 2003 American Eagle. And at the price asked, you will see very little depreciation over the next five years, which will not be the case with the Eagle.

Welcome to the family, and good luck. Finding a FT.

On Thursday, August 25, 2011, acousticart <> wrote:

Quote

Hello all!
I have just joined this group and will diligently sift through the archives to glean what information I can, but I am hoping to get some current valuation ideas and things to watch for when checking out one of these fine coaches. My partner and I are looking to buy a Diesel Pusher to go full timing in, and one that has caught our eye is a 1999 U270. My significant other is in Canada right now to settle her estate because her father passed away awhile back. So that is our stake and we need to make a good choice because the right motorhome is at the center of our plans for the near future. She had previously owned a 29' class C and I haver never owned an RV. I did drive a 35' school bus for about a year some 28 years ago or so, so I am not intimadated by the size. So far I have test driven a 1998 37' Gulfstream Sunchaser and a 1994 38' Kountry Star. The Gulfstream, while beautiful on the inside wallowed like a pig in the mud with every manuver and, according to the wall plate, had a pathetic NCC of less than 2000lbs. I figure that chassis was just loaded to close to its limits for good handling. The Newmar handled much better, but on the highway, it needed constant course corrections to stay planted in the lane. We were going to take a look at a 95' american Eagle. I really liked the layout inside of it better than anything else I have looked at online, even considering that it doesn't have a slide out, and the woodwork looked beautiful in the pics. Unfortunately, the dealer let me know that somebody came and put a deposit on it so that one is out of the picture (maybe that is a good thing, who knows?). Having learned about the various chassis types, I have been impressed with everything I have heard about Foretravel's construction methods, capacities and such. In fact the only real negative I have come across is a relatively wide turning circle. Just last night, I noticed a 1999 36' Foretravel U270 at a dealer not far away, priced in the mid $40's. It has just come on the market (I know because I have been obsessively pouring over search results for a month or more now while trying to educate myself). It is a bit shorter than I was hoping for but chances are, that we would not be able to get a 40' Foretravel for what we can afford (we intend to pay cash). It looks awfully nice and supposedly has all the service records, was always serviced at the Foretravel factory, and was owned by an airline pilot. The only negative I can see is that it has over 140k miles... I would appreciate any and all advice about this model and vintage of coach. I love the idea of the Monocoque construction, Air Disc brakes all round, the 350hp Cummins, etc, etc.

So what do the members of this group think? Should my target be lower milage coach of lesser pedigree, or is this coach just getting started at over 140k miles? Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, Don
Nothing yet, but hoping for a nice Foretravel in the near future!

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #19 – August 26, 2011, 12:24:15 am

One advantage to 36 is many national parks can not take more thaa 36 foot unit. And those are usually very reasonably priced spots to save a dollar or two (ask me how I know, as I sit in west yellowstone...?)

:-)
On Thursday, August 25, 2011, Pierce & Gaylie Stewart <epiercestewart@gmail.com> wrote:

Quote

Just reread your post about the 36 feet angst. We looked and looked but found the 36 feet was perfect size for the two of us along with big Koda. We take others along occasionally and have no problems. Both sizes have their fans but you will not be unhappy with 36 feet. Sometimes less can be more.

Pierce & Gaylie
'93 U300/36

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #20 – August 26, 2011, 01:06:35 am

Y'all forgetting the ole comment;

"I'd rather have a ten year old Foretravel than a brand new anything else"

I always loved that comment, now who wrote that one ?

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #21 – August 26, 2011, 10:11:53 am

and probably the greatest thing about a U270 - you get to be a member of the Poortravel club

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #22 – August 26, 2011, 10:13:07 am

Can only speak to the 36' length. We bought a 1993 U-225, 36. Now after 4 months, 20 nights of use, we are unloading things that we have not needed. We have done 4 night work trip, weekend, and just back from a 10 night 1000 mile trip to the coast. We like the size, have been into some state parks and camp spots that a larger, taller, motorhome might have had some trouble getting into.

We too looked at American Eagles, thought that was the only solution, so glad we waited for a Foretravel. Had a saleman tell me a $110,000 coach had better resale than the $60,000 other one he had. I asked how much depreciation would the two maybe loose, and that stopped him. Figured on any coach, you can only loose what you pay. Find the best, at a price you can afford to loose, and buy and enjoy.

Off the Bluebird forum I learned to think have $10,000 to spend on upgrades and things the first year, and then plan on $5,000 each year after. With that in mind, my budget was set up, and hopefully we stay on budget. I figure I am a member of the poortravel group, as we are still working.

Know the very worst that might happen is a full motor rebuild, and that is about the only thing that would break the bank.

Good luck with what you find, and welcome to this great forum.

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #23 – August 26, 2011, 03:17:01 pm

Nice to see that I sparked off a which is best 36' or 40'. Two things to keep in mind. 1. My wife she can fill up a 40' in no time. 2. Have you noticed those huge great Prevosts pulling a honking great trailer loaded with car and stuff? I call it taking the garage AND basement with you.

Good luck with the search.

Keith

Re: 99' U270 with 140K... too many miles?

Reply #24 – August 27, 2011, 02:46:54 am

Hi all,
Thanks for all the great suggestions. We went to see the 1999 U270 today and I drove it. It does drive quite nicely, though I was expecting a bit more power from the 350HP Cummins. It didn't feel a whole lot more responsive than the Newmar Kountry Star at only 250HP, but it was able to merge on to the freeway adequately. Perhaps that is just my inexperience with these beasts. I absolutely loved the Retarder and the brakes in general. I am definitely sold on that idea! It seemed to ride well and not wallow like the Gulfstream I drove, and stayed planted in the freeway lanes much better than the Newmar. Still, I did feel some significant response to gusts of wind. Is something like a BlueOx Trucenter a help for taming wind gusts?

Some haggling and we had the price down to $40K, which seems like a good deal in spite of some defects and concerns which I note below. This is contingent upon it passing their own safety inspection and making sure all of the features work as described. Also contingent, if we so choose, upon the outcome of a 3rd party inspection. Speaking of which, how much should that cost and what can I expect them to check? Should that be done at a shop or is it par for the course to have a mobile service come to the dealers' lot to do a check. I know I ask a lot of questions, and I expect that no one person would care to take the time to answer them even if you knew all the answers. That said, I you have some solid information on one or more of my questions and concerns, I would have a great appreciation for your time in answering and I can only say that I will be more than happy to pass it on when I have enough knowledge to do more good than harm!

Other concerns I noticed...
1. Double pane windows gasket creep. Many of the windows had gaskets that are creeping... maybe as many as 7 or 8. I understand that is not a cheap fix. Is that a serious problem if I don't get it done right away? Any suggestions on where to take it and how much that might cost?
2. Front tires. They had plenty of tread but the date code must have been on the inside and I could see some weather checking on the side walls. The 2 outer rears at least looked good. I couldn't see a date code on them either, but they were supposedly near new and were not weather checked. These are Toyo M147 tires... Suggestions as to which tires for the steering axle would be best?
3. The front step has some rust around the edge... is this common or possibly a sign of bigger potential rust problems? Also the first step on the inside is quite soft under the rubber tread.... feels very spongy. Easy fix or no?
4. The original fridge works but will probably need replacing soon. Are there options for a nicer one considering the space constraints in the 36' U270? Approximate costs?
5. We will be full-timing and need a washer/dryer combo. I definitely want a vented one, but since there was never one installed, how to I locate the place to drill the hole for the vent? Are there framing plans that show the stud locations?
6. The carpet has to go and I will probably install bamboo flooring throughout and use throw rugs. Who ever thought putting carpeting in bathrooms was a good idea?
7. Lifts on the engine cover weak, and the insulation looks deteriorated on the inside cover. Any ideas of the replacement struts and what can be used to replace the insulation material?
8. Back Camera/Monitor Not woking? At least, the salesman (who had never driven a diesel before) didn't know how to turn it on and I couldn't tell at glance which switch was supposed to work it.
9. Pocket Doors stuck? I couldn't seem to close the pocket doors... what is the trick? There didn't seem to be a latch and I tried every which way to close them but no luck...
10. Co-Pilot seat Position? Max forward still left it about 4" shy of being even with the driver's seat. Is this par for the course on the front entry style coaches?
11. Oven Installation. No oven, my lady wants one and I think the cooktop needs refreshing anyway. I gather they cost about $500 at camping world. Should installing be as easy as removing the top drawer below the range and modifying the cabinet to accommodate the new Range with Oven?
12. Black tank flush is not a part of this coaches equipment and that surprised me. How much of a downside is this? Retrofits available?
13. Decals fading... only remedy to remove and paint the whole coach? or are there other less costly options?

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