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Topic: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270 (Read 2244 times) previous topic - next topic

Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Hello All,
As we sit here impatiently waiting for our "new" 99' to be ready to bring home, I am trying to learn as much as I can about her. One thing that I am completely ignorant about are the coach batteries. I know they are gel type, big, and very expensive! I am not even sure how many there are in our coach. Counting the bumps where you would ordinarily see the water caps, it looks like there are 2 12volt batteries, but my limited understanding that most coach batteries are done with 2 6 volt batteries in series. I am attaching a pic, so if anyone could shed some light on the subject, I would appreciate it!
On a related note, a Heart Freedom 20 is listed as standard which as I understand it, is a 2KW inverter. The picture I took clearly shows that it is a Heart Freedom 10. It seems huge, but unless I am mistaken, that means that we only have a 1KW inverter in our coach, is that correct?
Thanks in advance!
Don
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Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #1
Don,
  I have a 99 U270 with the same battery setup. I replaced both of them (AGM) for $771.00. As far as the inverter, mine is a 20. I think it was the standard on for that year. Maybe someone else knows some more info.

Regards, Mark
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Mark and Tanya
Milton , Florida
US Navy Veteran (DV)
1999 U270 Special 40' CAI , 2015 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #2
Thanks for the reply! So am I to understand that you gotbtwo of those batteries for $771? If so, where?
Don
Don,
  I have a 99 U270 with the same battery setup. I replaced both of them (AGM) for $771.00. As far as the inverter, mine is a 20. I think it was the standard on for that year. Maybe someone else knows some more info.

Regards, Mark
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #3
BTW - if you're going to have recording equipment in your rig (another thread...), it will be essential to have a true sine wave inverter, and I believe the Heart Freedom series is modified sine wave, so you will likely want to replace it with a 2+ KW true sine wave inverter/charger.  I got a Xantrex Prosine 2.0 (reconditioned) about 3 years ago, and have been quite happy with it, but I think there are better ones available.
Dave and Nancy
1999/2013 U270 36' Xtreme
Motorcade # 16774
2013 Subaru Outback
KD0NIM

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #4
Yup, those sure look like gels to me. Pair of 8Ds - on slides no less.  :) Check the date codes to see how old they are - they look pretty new.

Agree about a pure sine wave inverter - I'm going with the Magnum PSW. Also a good idea - a surge protector downstream of the shore power/generator transfer switch. Never know the quality of the power you might get when plugged in who knows where. As a last resort, my rack gear is getting AC power through a Furman PL Plus Series II power filtering and suppression unit (it's already in my rack at home).

There are a number of choices with regards to inverters and surge protectors. If you do a search on this forum you'll find a number of threads on these subjects. As with most anything, it pays to do your research and shop around before laying down any money.

Steve
1991 U225 Grand Villa

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #5
IF you are really into the battery / inverter thing, you might consider remaking that battery mount, lowering it, and building it to hold additional 2 above the existing pair of MK's, with 4 MK's you sure  could go total electric, refrig etc.
Appears to be plenty space for such.
Just an idea from the peanut gallery.
 ;D

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #6
That sounds like good advice... I have power conditioners on everything in the studio. I am researching the inverter question, especially since we have only a 1kw, but no rush since it will be a months yet before I make the full transition. I havle heard good things about the magnums. What was your source for the rebuilt Xantrex?
Don
M
BTW - if you're going to have recording equipment in your rig (another thread...), it will be essential to have a true sine wave inverter, and I believe the Heart Freedom series is modified sine wave, so you will likely want to replace it with a 2+ KW true sine wave inverter/charger.  I got a Xantrex Prosine 2.0 (reconditioned) about 3 years ago, and have been quite happy with it, but I think there are better ones available.
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #7
IF you are really into the battery / inverter thing, you might consider remaking that battery mount, lowering it, and building it to hold additional 2 above the existing pair of MK's, with 4 MK's you sure  could go total electric, refrig etc.
Appears to be plenty space for such.
Just an idea from the peanut gallery.
 ;D

That's on our list too, but in the meantime, I build a shelf above the AGMs, which is - surprisingly - now totally filled with essential stuff :(.  I keep looking for some hypercube shelving at World Depot, but I can never seem to get the century setting right on the time machine...
Dave and Nancy
1999/2013 U270 36' Xtreme
Motorcade # 16774
2013 Subaru Outback
KD0NIM

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #8
I have been thinking about additional coach batteries as there certainly is room with a stacking configuration, but that brings to mind a couple of questions. First isbthe added weight on the passengers side. That would add about 335lbs on that side. I guess I could counter it by loading heavier things on the the drivers side, but first thing would be to weigh it empty and see how it is distributed as is. Second question is how that might affect the choice of a new inverter as regards charging amps etc. I am not sold yet on the all electric thing, but I have I have a lot to learn, so we will see what the future brings.

Also, I am not sure what you mean by lowering the existing battery mount since that sled out tray appears to be sitting on the deck. I was thinking of adding vertical sides on either side of the slider to make another level and putting a slider there as well, although managing the cables might be a challenge.
Don
IF you are really into the battery / inverter thing, you might consider remaking that battery mount, lowering it, and building it to hold additional 2 above the existing pair of MK's, with 4 MK's you sure  could go total electric, refrig etc.
Appears to be plenty space for such.
Just an idea from the peanut gallery.
 ;D
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #9
That sounds like good advice... I have power conditioners on everything in the studio. I am researching the inverter question, especially since we have only a 1kw, but no rush since it will be a months yet before I make the full transition. I havle heard good things about the magnums. What was your source for the rebuilt Xantrex?
Don
I got it on eBay back in 08, but it was a factory refurb and came with a 1 year warranty.  At that time it was $750, which seemed like a pretty good price.  It's been quite satisfactory, but I've read of others having problems with Xantrex units, so if I were to buy one today, I think I would look at the Magnums.
Dave and Nancy
1999/2013 U270 36' Xtreme
Motorcade # 16774
2013 Subaru Outback
KD0NIM

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #10
The picture of the U270 bay looks very much like the bay in our U295. Ours has an additional drawer above that holds a third 8D AGM battery. Ours also has terminals and some measuring/control devices on the wall toward the rear of the coach. I don't think a fourth battery would fit without moving some stuff. However, a third battery would fit above the two existing batteries.

I have not measured side to side distribution of weight in our coach. You would probably want to check that to see what an additional battery might do to the distribution.

Again, I recommend performing only maintenance and safety renewals or changes on your coach before you begin using it. Find out what works for YOU. After you use the coach, you will be more prepared to make the changes most important for your pleasure and utility.
J D Stevens
1997 U295 CAI 36' Build #5085
2002 Subaru Outback
Motorcade 16869
Bellville, TX

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #11
Sage advice for sure! Since we are still waiting to take possesion of our obsession, just day dreaming about possible enhancements. Maintainence first, some trial runs tobsee how we use it, then enhancements... With the exception of the bathroom carpet, which will be in the trash within a day or two of getting her home!

Thanks for the info on your 295... I will be taking measurements!
Don
The picture of the U270 bay looks very much like the bay in our U295. Ours has an additional drawer above that holds a third 8D AGM battery. Ours also has terminals and some measuring/control devices on the wall toward the rear of the coach. I don't think a fourth battery would fit without moving some stuff. However, a third battery would fit above the two existing batteries.

I have not measured side to side distribution of weight in our coach. You would probably want to check that to see what an additional battery might do to the distribution.

Again, I recommend performing only maintenance and safety renewals or changes on your coach before you begin using it. Find out what works for YOU. After you use the coach, you will be more prepared to make the changes most important for your pleasure and utility.
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #12
I believe the previous owner told me that they were new in 2007, which brings to mind the question, how long do they last? I suppose it depends on usage as well as age, how it was stored, number of charge cycles, etc. That said, how long do they typically go before going belly up?

As regards inverters, there is a Xantrex SW3000 with what seems like excellent specs that can be had for about $1500. The Magnum 2K seems to be over $2000 for less capacity. Just wondering if the Xantrex is that much poorer quality or perhaps just a newer model that replaces more expensive previous models as is typical in the electronics industry. They both claim to be pure sine wave...

As regards surge supressors, I installed a hardwired Progressive Industries 50 amp surge protector in Tys' park model after an Autoformer she had apparently created a 220v surge throughout her park model and fried the fridge and her microwave... At first we thought it was the parks power at fault, but it turned out that the Autoformer must have shorted and combine two legs. Not that the company would ever admit that, but they did fix it for free. Now the Autoformer sits in front of the surge supressor.
Don

Yup, those sure look like gels to me. Pair of 8Ds - on slides no less.  :) Check the date codes to see how old they are - they look pretty new.

Agree about a pure sine wave inverter - I'm going with the Magnum PSW. Also a good idea - a surge protector downstream of the shore power/generator transfer switch. Never know the quality of the power you might get when plugged in who knows where. As a last resort, my rack gear is getting AC power through a Furman PL Plus Series II power filtering and suppression unit (it's already in my rack at home).

There are a number of choices with regards to inverters and surge protectors. If you do a search on this forum you'll find a number of threads on these subjects. As with most anything, it pays to do your research and shop around before laying down any money.

Steve
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #13
Don,
  I bought my Deka AGM batteries at a local battery depot (here in north Florida) for that price. The ones I replaced were identical and they were five years old.

Mark
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Mark and Tanya
Milton , Florida
US Navy Veteran (DV)
1999 U270 Special 40' CAI , 2015 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #14
Thanks for the info! That beats any price I have found so far... by the way, in your sig is a pic of a U285 emblem which I have yet to see referenced even in Barry's exhaustive website. Is that an actual Foretravel Model? Maybe a special?
Thanks,
Don
Don,
  I bought my Deka AGM batteries at a local battery depot (here in north Florida) for that price. The ones I replaced were identical and they were five years old.

Mark
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #15
That 'caused quite a stir on the forum when that coach first came up for sale.
The selected media item is not currently available. Dave Head & Megan Westbrook
Titusville, FL - The Great Outdoors
'98 270 buying this month
Toad is a 2018 F150 XLT

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #16
Don,
  Mr Taylor ordered it special and he put the U285 Special on it as a joke to Mr Fore. It was his fourth Foretravel he bought and he wanted a U320 with light oak cabinets. The factory refused to build a 320 that way. So after going round and round they agreed to run a U270 back through the factory and install most of the U320 options on it. He had the stickers made up. Thats the scoop.

Regards, Mark
The selected media item is not currently available.
Mark and Tanya
Milton , Florida
US Navy Veteran (DV)
1999 U270 Special 40' CAI , 2015 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #17
Great story! One of the things I like about this group is that there is so much lore (ForeLore) and legend!
Don
Don,
  Mr Taylor ordered it special and he put the U285 Special on it as a joke to Mr Fore. It was his fourth Foretravel he bought and he wanted a U320 with light oak cabinets. The factory refused to build a 320 that way. So after going round and round they agreed to run a U270 back through the factory and install most of the U320 options on it. He had the stickers made up. Thats the scoop.

Regards, Mark
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #18
Several years ago when I was still in an 85 ORED I met a guy in a CG in Alabama, ( Lake Eufaula ) in a FT.  We invited him and his wife to join us in our Georgia Funseekers activities. As we stood BS'ing behind his FT I noticed that it was  290 . Al Reiser was with me and he commented  that he had never seen a 290 and of course I did not know the difference at that time.  The guy doubled over with laughter and went on to tell us that he had had a small amount of damage and replaced the 7 with a 9.  He said that he was driving the techs and parts people nuts when asking for stuff for his 290.  Wish I had his name it was a real hoot.
Gary B  :)

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #19
I've seen the 2KW Magnum PSW 2012 inverters selling for $1600 and change. Adding a gen start module and a battery monitor will automate, optimize, and maintain the batteries' state of charge on an ongoing basis.

DEKA gels can be had for about $600 or even less if you shop around. I ended up buying mine from an online solar company in Massachusetts, and was able to pick them up at a local depot myself.

With my U225, once the solar panels are added, am thinking of perhaps adding a third coach battery and moving the starting battery over to the driver's side in the engine area (in a sealed case). For batteries on slideouts, welding cables work well for interconnects, as the very fine strands allow for a lot of flexing.

Steve
1991 U225 Grand Villa

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #20
We eventually want to add solar panels as well. Have you identified what type and capacities? Followin is a linkbto an interesting flexible solar panel that is supposedly more shade and angle tolerant and can even be walked on... It seems like it would be ideal from an installlation standpoint, since it would conform to the roof curvature and be fairly aerodynamic.

Don
Energy Del Sol ADH-PM68 Solar Panel Energy Flex Power Mat Trailer RV Camper

I've seen the 2KW Magnum PSW 2012 inverters selling for $1600 and change. Adding a gen start module and a battery monitor will automate, optimize, and maintain the batteries' state of charge on an ongoing basis.

DEKA gels can be had for about $600 or even less if you shop around. I ended up buying mine from an online solar company in Massachusetts, and was able to pick them up at a local depot myself.

With my U225, once the solar panels are added, am thinking of perhaps adding a third coach battery and moving the starting battery over to the driver's side in the engine area (in a sealed case). For batteries on slideouts, welding cables work well for interconnects, as the very fine strands allow for a lot of flexing.

Steve
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #21
I got our system (currently 400W - 4 panels) from AM Solar in Oregon ( Welcome to AM Solar_Your RV Solar Specialists since 1987 ).  Great company to deal with and the prices keep coming down.  I did all the installation myself, and the installation package that AM Solar sent was very high quality and complete.  I'll be adding another couple of panels at some point, since our controller is good for 600W, and I've about decided that we can afford the roof space even if we do eventually carry a couple of kayaks up there.

Don't know about the amorphous silicon panels, but they are less efficient per sq ft, and I certainly wouldn't want to walk on them very often...  Polycrystalline and monocrystalline panels are rated to withstand 1" hail at terminal velocity, so if you're in baseball-size hail country, you might want amorphous panels, but their longevity hasn't been as good as crystalline silicon panels.  (Might also need a new roof after a baseball-sized hail storm?).  All panels are more efficient when they're cooler, so that's an argument for brackets that hold the panels a little off the roof.

We have AM Solar's tilting brackets for our panels, and when we're staying put for a week or so, I do climb up and tilt them.  Makes a ~30% power difference in the winter, and takes about 10 minutes to put all our panels up or down.  Panels also run cooler when they're up, so more efficient.
Dave and Nancy
1999/2013 U270 36' Xtreme
Motorcade # 16774
2013 Subaru Outback
KD0NIM

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #22
Dave, it sounds like an awesome set up for being off grid and that you have done your due diligence in researching your systems. I am just in the begining phases of looking into this. I find the idea of low profile solar cells to be attractive, but I am not sure how much efficiency I ma willing to sacrifice to that ideal. Do you have pictures you could post of your panels? Was the install difficult as regards the necessary anchoring points, penetrations, wire runs etc. I assume you would just run all the cabling externally, and bring it down in one run through the back end cap?
Thanks, Don

P.S. I find it so amazing that there is someone out there with the same year and model who has already tackled so much of what I have been contemplating! Thanks for sharing...

I got our system (currently 400W - 4 panels) from AM Solar in Oregon ( Welcome to AM Solar_Your RV Solar Specialists since 1987 ).  Great company to deal with and the prices keep coming down.  I did all the installation myself, and the installation package that AM Solar sent was very high quality and complete.  I'll be adding another couple of panels at some point, since our controller is good for 600W, and I've about decided that we can afford the roof space even if we do eventually carry a couple of kayaks up there.

Don't know about the amorphous silicon panels, but they are less efficient per sq ft, and I certainly wouldn't want to walk on them very often...  Polycrystalline and monocrystalline panels are rated to withstand 1" hail at terminal velocity, so if you're in baseball-size hail country, you might want amorphous panels, but their longevity hasn't been as good as crystalline silicon panels.  (Might also need a new roof after a baseball-sized hail storm?).  All panels are more efficient when they're cooler, so that's an argument for brackets that hold the panels a little off the roof.

We have AM Solar's tilting brackets for our panels, and when we're staying put for a week or so, I do climb up and tilt them.  Makes a ~30% power difference in the winter, and takes about 10 minutes to put all our panels up or down.  Panels also run cooler when they're up, so more efficient.
The selected media item is not currently available.
Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #23
Installation of the panels on the roof was quite easy.  I used the 3M super adhesive tape that AM Solar supplied (used for structural bonding on cars and other applications.)  Cleaned the roof area with alcohol and stuck it down.  You can also screw through the pad into the fiberglass, but AM Solar didn't think it was necessary.    They said they've been selling systems with the adhesive bonding for ten years and never had a failure.  On the advice of an AM Solar installer at some park where we were, I also put a bead of Dicor around each pad.  You do need to be careful to loosen all the pivots before tilting the panels up, since I think if you really levered the pads up they might come loose, but I've never had a problem with them.

As you can see from the roof photos, the cables from each panel run along the roof to a combiner box which is right next to the fridge vent.  Cables are held down with 3M super adhesive pads and tie wraps, and I also put a bead of Dicor along each one.  From the combiner box, the main DC cable just runs down the fridge vent and then through the floor into the drivers side center compartment, where I mounted the controller.
The wiring isn't very complicated, and the RM Solar instructions are excellent. 

I also installed a Trimetric 2020 battery monitor to keep track of charge state of the coach batteries.

(BTW - the newspaper you can see on the rear AC housing was there to document the date for a set of assessment photos...)
Dave and Nancy
1999/2013 U270 36' Xtreme
Motorcade # 16774
2013 Subaru Outback
KD0NIM

Re: Coach batteries and inverter capacity in our 99'U270

Reply #24
Dave, I too got my solar from AM and my AGM 8D batteries too. I have 2 @ 150 watts and am adding 3 more this winter ( already spoken to Dave there about it.) They installed the first ones but I think I will take the new ones down to Mexico with me and do it there-give me something to do for a day!!!
I agree they are nice people and the overnight hookup and parking is good -nice setting. They use the best panels and for the size give an extra 20watts over all the rest.I also have the Trimetic but have the Morningstar controller and charge panel.
John
Coachless, now use aircraft. 2003 Ford Travelair TC280 class C. Super shape. Just for 1 yr .
1994 Ford E350 ClassC,total renovation inside and out. Now sold.
2000 U295  36' Cummins 350 c/w Banks Stinger, Resonator upgrade,Solar, LED lites.Residential fridge with slide out pantry. Build 5674. Sold
ex 92 GV 022C ored Cummins. Sold
ex 95 GV240 cat 3116. Sold
2017 Mini cooper s & 2016 land Rover LR2 HSE  LUX.
jhaygarth@aol.com    SKP #130098
treat everyone as you would like to be.