The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Topic: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road) (Read 2920 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #25 – March 13, 2018, 10:17:43 am

Didn't do anything to troubleshoot the problem last night. Going to work on the issue this morning after breakfast. Thanks to all the inputs from the Forum I have a place to start. Will begin with voltage measurements from the batteries forward. Will post. my findings. Will begin the process after a cup of coffee.

Roland

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #26 – March 13, 2018, 01:29:35 pm

I'm unclear on the subject of ATEC (Allison Transmission Electronic Control).

Does the '93 U280 (Cummins C8.3 300HP mechanical engine with Allison 6-speed MD3060) have "ATEC"? Right in the middle of my 12V wiring diagram, there is a set of 5 wires and a box that says "TO ATEC DWG A-4845". Anyway, I don't have that drawing in my books. I thought I read somewhere that only the '93 U300 (DD 6V92 DDEC with HT746 trans) had ATEC, but I could certainly be wrong about that.

I also thought that ATEC was part of the electronic control package that was added to "electronic" engines in later years (post 1993).

Anybody know for sure which year/model/engine coaches actually had ATEC?

AND HAS ANYONE EVER FOUND A FUSED POWER WIRE GOING TO THE ALLISON ECU?

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #27 – March 13, 2018, 01:43:51 pm

AND HAS ANYONE EVER FOUND A FUSED POWER WIRE GOING TO THE ALLISON ECU?
[/quote]
What I am looking for now. Found the spot where the wire loom breaks out for the transmission did not see any fuses there. Going to cut back on the electrical tape too see if it is buried.

Roland

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #28 – March 13, 2018, 02:09:20 pm

Although mine is a 99 the fuse folders for mine are In The harness on top of the bell housing I beleave

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #29 – March 13, 2018, 02:18:22 pm

There are three fuses under the dash for: AUX TRANS CONTROL, ATEC IGNITION, ATEC COMPUTER. Unfortunately they are all good. Did not find any fuses back at the transmission.

Roland

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #30 – March 13, 2018, 02:26:46 pm

DANG IT! I just went out and popped our dash cover, saw those 3 fuses, and took pics of them. I was gonna tell you to check them.

Well, that doesn't help. I am still totally mystified where the power comes from for the transmission ECU and touch pad.

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #31 – March 13, 2018, 02:44:48 pm

These are the photos I took of the harness breakout for my transmission. There are no fuses here that I can see.

Rolans

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #32 – March 13, 2018, 02:46:53 pm

If all else fails, I've heard good things about these guys in Tucson. Allison Transmissions and Detroit Diesel Engines - Global Industrial Automatics

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #33 – March 13, 2018, 02:47:57 pm

Under the dash cover, the 10A fuse in the bottom left corner of the fuse chart labeled ATEC COMPUTER - I know you checked it to see if it was blown. But, is it hot all the time, regardless of ignition switch position?

It looks like that 10A fuse is powered from the battery side of the ignition solenoid, through one of the big round 90A circuit breakers located on the main 12V panel in the center storage bay (under the white fiberglass cover). From the 90A breaker it goes through a 30A ATEC circuit breaker, then back up front to the fuse block.

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #34 – March 13, 2018, 02:51:42 pm

Battery voltage is 12.8 at the start battery and at the solenoid. I have started the coach repeatedly with no change. Unless someone with a 1993 U280 with a Cummins 8.3 mechanical engineer and a six speed Allison can identify any other fuses or voltages that I should check I am at the end of my ability to diagnose.

Roland

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #35 – March 13, 2018, 02:55:23 pm

I just went out and checked our 10A fuse with a test light. It IS hot all the time, with ignition switch OFF. How about yours?

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #36 – March 13, 2018, 02:56:47 pm

Roland, have you tried removing the chassis battery ground and wait a bit to see if it will reset?

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #37 – March 13, 2018, 03:05:24 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – March 13, 2018, 02:55:23 pm

I just went out and checked that 10A fuse with a test light. It IS hot all the time, with ignition switch OFF. How about yours?

I just checked that ten amp fuse under the dash and it is hot all the time. The other two fuses are only hot with the ignition on.

Roland

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #38 – March 13, 2018, 03:23:00 pm

Quote from: bbeane – March 13, 2018, 02:56:47 pm

Roland, have you tried removing the chassis battery ground and wait a bit to see if it will reset?

Yes and no difference in anything anywhere.

roland

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #39 – March 13, 2018, 03:24:09 pm

Quote from: mike leary – March 13, 2018, 02:46:53 pm

If all else fails, I've heard good things about these guys in Tucson. Allison Transmissions and Detroit Diesel Engines - Global Industrial Automatics

May be the final solution.

Roland

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #40 – March 13, 2018, 03:24:49 pm

Roland,

Did you try running the trouble shooting tests from the Transmission Instruments website? I'll link it again below. They would tell you if you are getting power to the ECU connector. If you are, and the touch pad still won't come on, then I'm afraid it is dead. See what you find.

Our coaches have the WTECII system (2nd paragraph).

http://www.transmissioninstruments.com/troubleshooting.html

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #41 – March 13, 2018, 03:27:33 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – March 13, 2018, 03:24:49 pm

Roland,

Did you try running the trouble shooting tests from the Transmission Instruments website? I'll link it again below. They would tell you if you are getting power to the ECU connector. If you are, and the touch pad still won't come on, then I'm afraid it is dead. See what you find.

Our coaches have the WTECII system (2nd paragraph).

http://www.transmissioninstruments.com/troubleshooting.html

Will give it a try.

Roland

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #42 – March 13, 2018, 03:32:55 pm

I didn't see this mentioned in earlier posts. Have you tried reseating the Allison ECU input and outputs. The outputs are indicated with the arrows in the photo. The inputs are on the other end of the ECU.
jor

Also, here's a copy of the Allison wiring diagram for my rig which may match yours. Got it from Barry when I was having an issue. You can ID the 12v power wire coming into the Allison box to determine if you have power there. Probably do in that your fuse shows good. You can ID the output wire and check for power there.

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #43 – March 13, 2018, 03:33:34 pm

Quote from: Roland Begin – March 13, 2018, 03:24:09 pm

May be the final solution.

You do what you think is best, but if it was me I would call John Kopalek at Transmission Instruments before going to any local shop. 9.9 times out of 10, the local Allison techs will just want to sell you a brand new touch pad or ECU (if they can even find one). Either part will be BIG bucks. John will fix the one you've got (or sell you a rebuilt unit) for a LOT less money. If he can't fix it, he will tell you - he is a straight shooter. And his turn-around is quick - usually only a day or two, plus the mailing time.

But like I said, you're in charge!

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #44 – March 13, 2018, 04:34:43 pm

Guess I'm going to stay into stay in the barrel a while longer. I do not have the original ECU. My ECU was replaced in 05 and John can't fix it. Or very little chance that he can fix it. And as it was replaced wit a "new" unit I can't just slap an original computer in its place. Now I will have to deal with the Mfr or a dealer.......Gee Lucky me.

Roland

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #45 – March 13, 2018, 04:53:02 pm

Global Trans in Tucson has a "transmission" section on their site you can click on. Click on "troubleshooting" and scroll down to "Main Code 23" and "Subcode 12" & "14". Could that be you? Allison Transmissions and Detroit Diesel Engines - Global Industrial Automatics

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #46 – March 13, 2018, 05:05:31 pm

Quote from: Roland Begin – March 13, 2018, 04:34:43 pm

Now I will have to deal with the Mfr or a dealer......

Sorry! Hope you are parked in a nice spot and they aren't in a hurry for you to move.

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #47 – March 13, 2018, 05:12:25 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – March 13, 2018, 05:05:31 pm

Sorry! Hope you are parked in a nice spot and they aren't in a hurry for you to move.

Here in an RV Park in Tombstone until Thursday. Going to try and arrange a tow for Thursday as we may have a place to go while they work on the coach.

Roland

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #48 – March 13, 2018, 05:30:46 pm

I know it sounds stupid but...... Take a hair dryer to the Tranny ECU. May get you going. Also I assume you have unplugged it, cleaned the contacts and reseated it.
Gary B

Re: The dreaded DAL (Dead Along Road)

Reply #49 – March 13, 2018, 07:10:14 pm

Quote from: Roland Begin – March 13, 2018, 05:12:25 pm

Here in an RV Park in Tombstone until Thursday. Going to try and arrange a tow for Thursday as we may have a place to go while they work on the coach.

Roland

Roland, great food and drink at the Legion there, and the price is right!

Also, some gunfighters and barmaids there are from Maine originally.

Best of luck with your diagnosis and repair.

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