CAT 3116 water pump r&r

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CAT 3116 water pump r&r

November 01, 2011, 03:38:28 pm

So I am thinking that the squealing belt tensioner on our last trip was maybe the water pump. I started the coach up today and the water pump is seized. No panic, we are at home and will be for a couple of weeks.

Has anyone done this replacement themselves, or watched it done?

It looks like there are two large hoses, top and bottom, three smaller hoses, removal of the ac compressor lower mount and four mounting bolts from the front. I have already removed a couple belts and the tensioner in front of the water pump. It also looks like the pump is like an auto water pump in that it is open to the engine block - I loosened the four bolts I saw and got a seep of coolant. I would assume there is a gasket on the back, between the pump and the block.

Can anyone verify my thoughts, and let me know if I am in for any surprises? I am a decent driveway wrench, but this big diesel stuff is still very new to me.

oldMattB

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #1 – November 01, 2011, 03:46:00 pm

Matt, Brett Wolfe is your go to guy on CATS, If you haven't already you should probably look into the CAT forum that he moderates.
Gary B

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #2 – November 01, 2011, 04:10:24 pm

32 hits for "cat 3116 water pump" on Catrvclub - none deal with pump replacement.

oldMattB

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #3 – November 01, 2011, 04:37:55 pm

Quote from: oldmattb – November 01, 2011, 03:38:28 pm

So I am thinking that the squealing belt tensioner on our last trip was maybe the water pump. I started the coach up today and the water pump is seized. No panic, we are at home and will be for a couple of weeks.

Has anyone done this replacement themselves, or watched it done?

It looks like there are two large hoses, top and bottom, three smaller hoses, removal of the ac compressor lower mount and four mounting bolts from the front. I have already removed a couple belts and the tensioner in front of the water pump. It also looks like the pump is like an auto water pump in that it is open to the engine block - I loosened the four bolts I saw and got a seep of coolant. I would assume there is a gasket on the back, between the pump and the block.

Can anyone verify my thoughts, and let me know if I am in for any surprises? I am a decent driveway wrench, but this big diesel stuff is still very new to me.

oldMattB

Until Brett weighs in maybe these might help.

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #4 – November 02, 2011, 02:40:14 pm

Pump out! About 1.5 hours not including the time to write down the steps, and to step back and stare at it.

Is there an inexpensive source for these, or do I go to Cat? It is listed as a rebuildable item - Is is rebuildable by me with limited tools?

More on procedure later

oldMattB

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #5 – November 02, 2011, 03:11:32 pm

Just got back home-- was in the BVI for 10 days snorkeling and sailboat racing in the BEYC Pro-Am. The snorkeling was great as always. And came home with several T shirts and some Rum from winning races ranging from buoy racing a Rhodes 19 to a two leg 30 mile off shore race at the helm of a Leopard 45' catamaran.

Recommend Caterpillar reman water pump. Remember, if a member of the Caterpillar RV Engine Owners Club, get 10% off Caterpillar parts for your RV from any Caterpillar dealer.

Also, while you are there, replace the hoses, particularly the short one going up from the water pump.

You will need to transfer some of the fittings from old to new pump.

Nothing complex about doing it.

Also a good time to replace the thermostat and gasket (called regulator by Caterpillar), flush and change coolant. We went with Caterpillar ELC coolant.

If you need info on doing it, let me know.

Brett

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #6 – November 02, 2011, 04:09:48 pm

Brett,

Congrats on the t-shirts and rum. I am sure they were well-earned.

I just ordered a reman pump from my local Cat dealer. I will get a hose to make the two short sections for above and below - the flexibility of the new material will make the installation easier, and the old hose with yellow paint will be gone. My thermostat and coolant are just months old.

The removal was not difficult, but there is a lot to do. It took some shaking and wiggling to get the pump to come off. One self-imposed problem: I intended to remove the top front bolt from the AC bracket to make more room for the top rear bolt. All four bolts come from the side and three are very hard to see and get to without totally removing the AC compressor. Anyway, I used one of those wrenches with the ratcheting end to loosen the bolt. With the bolt loose, I could not remove the wrench from the bolt, both being captive to the back of the compressor. I could not retighten the bolt because the wrench only works one way (you remove it and turn it over to reverse. So I had to work around the wrench and the bolt to get to the top rear bolt, moving it about 1/16 turn at a time with an open end wrench.

I should have the new pump tomorrow.

oldMattB

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #7 – November 02, 2011, 06:10:53 pm

Hey Brett, if you came home with some Appleton Gold 150, we need to get together sooner rather than later. Its one of my favorite sipping booze ever. Of course at 150 proof, you don't want to sip a lot.

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #8 – November 02, 2011, 06:53:54 pm

Wow, Kent-- you da man.

151 is way past pain killer. Would likely be lethal at the end of a long day's racing in the tropics.

Actually, Mount Gay Rum was the race sponsor this year.

ARRRRRRRRRGH. (Pirate talk for "that's good Rum")

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #9 – November 02, 2011, 06:59:43 pm

Matt,

Just for information, I replaced my water pump (leaking seal) 12/5/03 at 91,100 miles with a Caterpillar reman pump.

All is well today at 157,486 miles.

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #10 – November 02, 2011, 07:53:25 pm

I was surprised to have a problem at such low miles (75Kish). I do think it had been leaking for a while - at times I would get a whiff of coolant, but attributed it to a small leak at a hose connection (before changing the coolant several months ago), and spillage (since the coolant change).

Maybe there was a problem with the pumps back then. I did see a couple references to pumps failing shortly after changing to ELC, though I can't imagine a causal link.

We love our coach. I have witnessed many mechanical things having sudden failures after a change of operator. I will be glad when we get through the broken stuff, and back to the gravy times. Our previous coach went from 80K miles to 150K miles with only a worn-out furnace replacement, a spark plug in the generator, and a broken bolt on a belt adjuster, none slowed us down.

oldMattB

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #11 – November 02, 2011, 08:43:19 pm

Matt,

Certainly, coolant changes/cooling system maintenance through the years is an issue with water pump longevity on any engine.

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #12 – November 05, 2011, 10:44:25 am

Some information for others that might follow:

Removal takes some time, due to the various belts and hoses, but is pretty uneventful. The AC compressor bracket is held onto the side of the water pump by four bolts. The lower rear one is hard to see, and it may be covered by a coolant fitting. The upper front one is a little longer than the others - even with the extra length, there is not much thread to hold it, so be careful tightening it.

You should be able to hang the AC compressor up and out of the way without discharging the system. It was not necessary to remove the two lower bolts that attach the compressor to the compressor mount.

I suggest leaving the hose fittings on the water pump loose until the new water pump is installed. It is difficult to tighten the fittings when the pump is installed, but it would be more difficult and frustrating to remove the pump to adjust a fitting angle. A set of big open-end wrenches will be very handy. The only other odd tools needed were a breaker bar for removing the belts, and a big hex wrench for removing a threaded plug in the new pump. Those little wrenches with the ratcheting hex end were pretty handy, but not required.

The back of the water pump seals to the block using two o-rings. They seemed to stay in place pretty well, but look around for a lost one before you tighten all the bolts. Cat did not have direct replacements for the two short radiator-type hoses - I bought some pre-formed hoses and cut off appropriate lengths.

The tensioner pulley bracket partially covers one of the water pump mounting bolts. Remove the pivot bolt and the tensioner will drop out of the way.

The AC compressor bracket is shaped like an upside-down U. Inside the U, an angled fitting threads into the water pump. At least in my case, the AC compressor bracket would not slide into place over the angled fitting. The angled fitting could not be installed with the AC bracket in place, due to a lack of clearance for it to spin. The AC compressor bracket had to be stored in a very specific place, not at all forward or behind its destination to slide over the angled fitting.

Again, this is a time-consuming but not particularly difficult job. Your coach may be way different than mine, though. That tip about the AC bracket and the angled fitting may save you an hour or so.

My old water pump was seized, which apparently makes it an unacceptable core. That made the cost for my new pump about $475 from CAT. If you can, get that pump moving, or buy a moving core off the net (I saw some for $75).

Time to refill the coolant and test for leaks. Wish me luck!

oldMattB

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #13 – November 05, 2011, 10:55:21 am

Matt,

That $475 was for new-- correct?

How much for a Caterpillar factory Reman?

And did you get the Cat RV Club 10% discount (assuming you are a member)?

Brett

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #14 – November 05, 2011, 11:22:43 am

I have never had a core rejected for being locked up, maybe that is the difference between Cat and the rest of the gang, DDC & Cummins, maybe even the RV customers, WOW !

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #15 – November 05, 2011, 11:31:53 am

Quote from: wolfe10 – November 05, 2011, 10:55:21 am

Matt,

That $475 was for new-- correct?

How much for a Caterpillar factory Reman?

And did you get the Cat RV Club 10% discount (assuming you are a member)?

Brett

$234 for pump, I assume it was a reman, I think the box said it, stock #OR-1015.
$208 for core deposit
With tax it was $472.89

I am not a Cat RV Club member. I didn't know there was anything to join other than the forum. I know now.

oldMattB

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #16 – November 05, 2011, 11:41:28 am

Dave,

Just to clarify:

A/C compressor is belt driven on all engines as far as I know.

Air compressor is gear driven on the Caterpillar 3116.

The hydraulic pump on the Caterpillar 3116 is driven off the back of the air compressor for power steering and belt driven (same as most other engines) for the cooling fan(s).

In the event of a seized bearing, not sure it is better to be gear/direct driven. At least with a belt driven accessory it will not do mechanical damage to the engine when it seizes and gives warning symptoms (squealing belt).

Having "non-essential" items such as the A/C compressor and alternator belt driven allows continued driving with just cutting the belt as long as water pump is driven separately. When I say alternator is non-essential, the coach can be driven with generator running, converter or inverter/charger charging the house battery bank and Boost/Dual switch ON to charge chassis batteries.

Brett

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #17 – November 05, 2011, 11:44:07 am

Quote from: oldmattb – November 05, 2011, 11:31:53 am

I am not a Cat RV Club member. I didn't know there was anything to join other than the forum. I know now.

oldMattB

Cat RV Club (an FMCA Chapter): CAT RV Club

Click on "Membership" to join ($15/yr). Would have saved you 10% on parts.

The Yahoo-based forum is the present technical discussion group for the club, but does not require Club membership. We are in the process of substantially upgrading the Cat RV Club technical website along the same lines as the Foretravel Yahoo group was upgraded to the ForeForum.

Steve is an invaluable asset in this! In fact, for his efforts, he an Michelle have been given complementary Cat RV Club membership and will be joining us (schedule permitting) for the Club spring Rally in Kerrville. Yes, the club has always been open to those with "non-yellow" engines. In fact, the Club's first VP had a Detroit Diesel.

Brett

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #18 – November 05, 2011, 01:33:02 pm

Brett, I was wrong and got off track on some of that, I just get off track when there is a belt driven air compressor, looks like an after thought or wrong application for the engine design.

Re: CAT 3116 water pump r&r

Reply #19 – November 05, 2011, 02:03:54 pm

Dave,

Ya, all modern diesel engines I am aware of have engine driven/gear driven air compressors.

Older engines were a different story.

Brett

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