Optima Red Top

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Optima Red Top

November 02, 2011, 08:23:25 pm

Can anyone tell me if there's any difference in the installation for the start batteries in a U270 (2 start batteries) if the top post terminals are reversed as in the Optima 34R spec? The price from Advance Auto deliveres is $162.50 with a special 15% discount vs. $200 direct from Optima or $172 from bigtimebattery.com.
Optima 34 red top Battery

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #1 – November 02, 2011, 10:07:22 pm

I can say that if you go with a direct replacement, the installation is very straightforward. On our coach, all cables are custom fit for a pair of series 34 batteries. I like simple, direct, and straightforward replacements.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #2 – November 02, 2011, 10:28:41 pm

Quote from: Peter & Beth – November 02, 2011, 08:23:25 pm

Can anyone tell me if there's any difference in the installation for the start batteries in a U270 (2 start batteries) if the top post terminals are reversed as in the Optima 34R spec? The price from Advance Auto deliveres is $162.50 with a special 15% discount vs. $200 direct from Optima or $172 from bigtimebattery.com.
Optima 34 red top Battery

If the cables reach there should be no problem. But don't install them with the positive terminal connected to what had been the cable to the negative terminal or the negative terminal connected to what had been the positive cable. Keep the polarities as they have been or you will have serious issues.

Craig

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #3 – November 02, 2011, 11:09:43 pm

Buy Optima batteries from Sam's Club as the price is right. SC34U ($140 in 2009) $150 out the door about 4 months ago. We originally had two batteries for starting and added a third Optima this year since the tray had space.

Reversing positive and negative will require the batteries to be installed 'backwards" which seems that it would be ok, but may give you a problem with cables if they don't reach. Battery posts are closer to one long side of the battery.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #4 – November 02, 2011, 11:17:20 pm

Thanks for the input. Not being at the coach it's difficult for me to tell right now. I'll have a look tomorrow. The Optima Grp 35's are readily available and is what I installed back in 2004, and have the correct fitment for the terminals. But, they're rated at 750 CCA vs. the 800 CCA for the Grp 34 on sale at Advance Auto.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #5 – November 03, 2011, 07:00:28 am

I thought a few months ago there had been some discussion about the Red Tops not being the battery of choice any longer. As I recall, they are being manufactured by a new company or in a new country. Does anyone recall what the consensus was of the current best starting battery? I can't find the thread and I anticipate needing new starting batteries pretty soon myself.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #6 – November 03, 2011, 09:17:50 am

I believe that it is made in Mexico now. Holds up well in vehicles which operate in rough terrain. My consensus - If you replace it with the same size flooded wet cell you will have over 50% more amp hour capacity. If you replace it with the same size Maintenance free, you will have over 50% more amp hour capacity. If you replace it with any AGM other than OPtima you will have over 50 percent more amp hour capacity.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #7 – November 03, 2011, 09:43:56 am

One should be able to compare battery capacity from the manufacturer's literature if they use the same method of rating the battery. As batteries age they loose capacity, almost any new battery will have more capacity than an older battery. Different types of batteries require different charging voltages for maximum life and proper charging. I think it is important to have the same type for the chassis (engine) as the house batteries, so the alternator can be set correctly for both as it charges both. The same holds true for the converter charger if the boost switch is on to charge both.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #8 – November 03, 2011, 09:59:54 am

Because I disconnect the batteries during winter storage, a wet cell would not work for me. I leave the battery in the coach disconnected. I've done this practice now for 8 years and the batteries still work fine, but I feel I'm playinf with fire if I don't replace them. The Optima's hold the charge over the 4 month storage heroically. The other brand of AGM battery is too high priced. I forgot the name.

I believe Johnson Controls now owns the Optima brand...not sure. These are the same folks that own Exide batteries.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #9 – November 03, 2011, 10:10:38 am

My Optimas are also 8 years old. At times when I turn on the key the gauge shows only 12V or even a little under but they start the engine fine, I have three of them. It seems to start fine even with the low voltage. If I catch the low voltage I flip on the boost switch and likewise the engine turns over and starts just fine. My question is does using the old starting batteries with low voltage harm anything?

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #10 – November 03, 2011, 10:22:10 am

Not an expert, but I believe low voltage sensitive instrumentation, like the odometer, can be affected. Others will have better information.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #11 – November 03, 2011, 11:24:58 am

The original Optima Battery Co. was sold to Johnson Control, in my opinion the quality has suffered, my original batteries were 9 years old when they were replaced, the new units were replaced a 6 years because one post rotted off, if I need to replace them again I will check out the Deka Dominator.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #12 – November 03, 2011, 02:02:23 pm

Just got back from retrieving Forrest for a weekend of Fall Foliage peeking and camping with the family.

I've taken a look and there is enough slack in the cabling to install Reversed posts batteries in the engine compartment.
That said, what is a good AGM batttery brand to substitute for the Optimas that's not a silly price?

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #13 – November 03, 2011, 05:12:21 pm

Quote

[snip:] That said, what is a good AGM battery brand to substitute for the Optimas that's not a silly price?

FWIW - I considered all the alternates and talked to a good number of "battery" people, including James T. Went with three new Optima Redtops, through Optima Battery Optima Batteries Free Shipping! Best Service! Deep Cycle. $518 total with free shipping. The first three Redtops lasted nearly 8-years and I would welcome a similar experience.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #14 – November 03, 2011, 05:38:13 pm

Quote from: Chad and Judy – November 03, 2011, 05:12:21 pm

[snip:] $518 total with free shipping. The first three Redtops lasted nearly 8-years and I would welcome a similar experience.

Chad,
Thanks, I see the Optima direct price is now $597 for three. I'll check with the local Batteries Plus dealer and see what he's got. I know they sell Optima and other brands.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #15 – November 03, 2011, 07:17:33 pm

Kent - My experience as an electrician says that as voltage goes down, amperage must go up to accomplish the same amount of work. The more amperage the more heat. Heat is one of the main ingredients to electrical failure.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #16 – November 03, 2011, 07:49:36 pm

Ouch...We purchased 3 red tops in Nac (A&A Hydraulics and batteries) for $700. Out the door..7/17/2011
D31YT-OPT

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #17 – November 03, 2011, 08:17:57 pm

Quote from: Jeff Savournin – November 03, 2011, 07:49:36 pm

Ouch...We purchased 3 red tops in Nac (A&A Hydraulics and batteries) for $700. Out the door..7/17/2011
D31YT-OPT

Jeff,
Could not find a Red Top with the D31YT spec. This could be a more expensive battery than the Group 34 we were discussing.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #18 – November 03, 2011, 10:05:49 pm

Quote from: Fred and Dawn – November 03, 2011, 07:17:33 pm

Kent - My experience as an electrician says that as voltage goes down, amperage must go up to accomplish the same amount of work. The more amperage the more heat. Heat is one of the main ingredients to electrical failure.

That makes a lot of sense. So the starter as well as the starting solenoid would suffer. I will start paying closer attention to the starting voltage.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #19 – November 03, 2011, 10:23:53 pm

Quote

RE: " as voltage goes down, amperage must go up . . .

The above is only correct for motors, etc (inductance). When voltage goes down, amperage does not increase for toasters, lamps, etc (resistive), only the amount of heat/light is reduced.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #20 – November 03, 2011, 11:00:43 pm

Have used Duralast for years with great luck. Have 3 in our U300 and they spin the Detroit like a top. 3 yrs free replacement, 8 yrs warranty. About $90 each. Check out the forums Duralast vs. Red top Optima.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #21 – November 03, 2011, 11:12:00 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – November 03, 2011, 11:00:43 pm

Have used Duralast for years with great luck. Have 3 in our U300 and they spin the Detroit like a top. 3 yrs free replacement, 8 yrs warranty. About $90 each. Check out the forums Duralast vs. Red top Optima.

Pierce,
I like the way the AGM's & Gels hold the charge even when not used in freezing ambient temperatures. I'd love to spend only the $90 each for the Duralast. I suppose I could disconnect the wet cells & put them in the basement during the winter, but this process would turn out to be a real hassle everytime I have to exercise the coach once a month during the winter.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #22 – November 03, 2011, 11:23:32 pm

Did a bit of searching and not surprisingly, AutoZone's Duralast batteries are manufactured by Johnson Controls. So, it is likely a very good battery.

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #23 – November 04, 2011, 12:36:16 am

It is my understanding that with a full initial charge, a lead acid battery will go all winter without any harmful effects. I have heard of people storing them outside in winter to prolong their life. A battery with a decent charge will not freeze in winter. Remember the Sears diehard battery frozen in ice for months in the TV ad? On the other hand, a battery stored in summer will go flat in a month. I always have pulled the ground cable on cars so the clock, etc. don't slowly drain it. A lot of auto radios have a volatile memory and need a little constant juice to remember their settings.

Actually, the colder the weather, the slower the battery will lose it's charge and the longer it can go untouched.

Here is a winter storage excerpt:

"Before placing any batteries in a storage situation, understand there is a condition called stand loss discharge (loss of electrolyte specific gravity) that will affect their life span and survivability. Batteries, without the benefit of frequent recharging, will rapidly self-discharge, especially in warm weather. The higher the ambient temperature, the higher the degree of self-discharge. I have included a chart (Stand Loss Capacities) that demonstrates the severity of this situation by showing how quickly batteries stored at various temperatures can go from a fully charged condition to becoming deeply discharged and possibly damaged, often permanently. Notice that batteries stored at a temperature of 42°F (6°C) display much less stand loss discharge than the other two examples shown at higher temperatures. Even after 19 weeks, the batteries are at approximately 1.245 specific gravity, well above the sulfation threshold of 1.220. This means the lower the storage temperature, the less the batteries will self-discharge. And the lower the temperature, the better. Even at 0°F (-18°C), batteries will maintain their charge for an extended period of time. Of course, this is all predicated on the batteries being clean, in good condition, and being fully charged prior to being placed into storage. These conditions are imperative, and they are the keys to successful winter storage. Unless your fleet is equipped with a charging system that will automatically turn on and assess battery condition and perform a periodic "maintenance charge," I highly recommend you disconnect the battery pack wiring after the full charge prior to storage if the chargers are not going to be used. I would also advise you to inspect the batteries monthly, taking sample specific gravity readings and checking chargers and circuit breakers if the chargers are to be used during storage, just to be sure there are no problems.

There is always concern that batteries will freeze during cold weather storage. They certainly can and will unless a sufficient charge is maintained. Take note of the charts listing temperatures at which batteries can freeze (Electrolyte Freezing Point @ Various States of Charge). As long as the proper specific gravity (state of charge) is maintained, batteries will not freeze. If you compare stand loss discharge at the temperature ranges listed, you'll see batteries stored at temperatures even well below 0°F (-18°C) will maintain their state of charge for an extended period as long as the temperature remains at that level."

Re: Optima Red Top

Reply #24 – November 04, 2011, 10:22:45 am

Pierce,
Thanks for that info. I may just try the maintenance free wet cells this time as a trial. There's not much to lose that way.

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