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Topic: Propane to Natural gas conversion? (Read 929 times) previous topic - next topic

Propane to Natural gas conversion?

People on this forum seem to know something about almost anything. Its with this knowledge base in mind that I ask for your help and opinions.

I have a Primus hot water heat system in my 95 U320. It runs on propane or 110v.
I would like to keep the inside of the coach and the storage bays above freezing this winter. The cost of running the Primus hot water heating system on 110v might be very high, and the propane tank will never last the winter.

I have natural gas for heat in my home. There is a natural gas supply in my garage near the coach that would be easy to tap off of.

I know they sell kits to convert propane appliances to natural gas, usually a change of gas orifices. I was wondering if I could run natural gas through my Primus boilers instead of propane for the winter while the coach is sitting.
1995 U320C SE 40'
Jeep 4x4 Commander - Limited - Hemi
"The Pack"  Yogi and Diesel our Airedales -  Charlie our Boxer/Akita mix. Gone but NEVER forgotten Jake our yellow Lab.
NRA Law Enforcement Firearms instructor - Handgun/shotgun
Regional Firearms instructor for national Armored Transp. Co.

Re: Propane to Natural gas conversion?

Reply #1 –
Contact Primus and ask for info for changing to the natural gas supply. Most change over kits involve an orfice, in the case of LP to NG, it would be to remove an orfice.  Could be a regulator change.

You need to know LP Gas is 2500 btu per cubic ft of vapor while Natural Gas is 1000 btu per cubic ft of vapor.

I have no idea if Primus has been so configured, but give them a call and see.  Dont forget the same holds for any burner such as water heater and refrig etc.

The danger would be next spring when you need to hit the road and forget to convert back to LP Gas orfice, you would have a grand fire going.

Good Luck

Re: Propane to Natural gas conversion?

Reply #2 –
Lon, I would think long and hard before trying this type conversion, too many things can go wrong.
You can use electric heaters to keep bays warm, remember as long as you are above 32 degrees you are OK.
I know Atlanta does not get all that cold but all I do is put tow 100 watt bulbs in each side of the water bay and a small electric heater Inside the coach.  IF ( and we seldom do ) we have 0 temps for a few days I set the two furnaces to low fifties.
As long as you have drained all water and put antifreeze in the sink traps you should be good to go.
Gary B

Re: Propane to Natural gas conversion?

Reply #3 –
We are getting night-time temperatures down to 14F here and I have both propane furnaces set to about 55F and the water heater on (electric) with the coach plugged in to a 50-amp service. Day temps are in the mid 30s. Since the coach is only a block from my house I am over there often to do work, find new switches, search for the vacuum hose, and take a nap. I was there for 2 hours yesterday afternoon and neither furnace turned on.

Propane use is minimal... since we plan to use the unit every couple of weeks in the winter anyway if we run low on propane we'll just top off. There is a Ferrelgas outlet (generally the cheapest) only a mile away.

I don't think I'd convert to natural gas.

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: Propane to Natural gas conversion?

Reply #4 –
In considering any conversion, the tank is a major consideration. The vapor pressure (the pressure required to keep the fuel in a liquid state) differs greatly from butane to propane to natural gas. With butane, a fairly thin walled tank can be used. Propane requires more pressure to keep it liquid so needs a thicker tank and natural gas has an even higher vapor pressure so it requires a still thicker tank. With the size of the propane tanks in our Foretravels, a much heavier/thicker tank would be needed to safely keep the CNG in a liquid state.

FYI: CNG has almost 10,000 BTUs less per gallon compared to Propane

Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Propane to Natural gas conversion?

Reply #5 –
I don't think he's planning to use the tank but, instead, plumb the coach directly to the natural gas regulator that is available nearby. If he does this then he only has to modify the devices that use the gas.

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: Propane to Natural gas conversion?

Reply #6 –
My post above was only intended to show what would have to be done if someone decided to convert the whole RV to CNG.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Propane to Natural gas conversion?

Reply #7 –
Since we are the Saudi Arabia of natural gas, more and more conversions will be done in the future. All is not lost having to deal with a heavy steel tank as lightweight aluminum tanks with a glass wrap on the outside will hold the increased vapor pressure without a problem. The only negative here is the cost for a large tank.

Pierce

Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Propane to Natural gas conversion?

Reply #8 –
I agree with all the above, mostly with Gary B, just use 1 or 2 or 3 electric heaters as needed and forget the nat gas conversion unless you would like to make it a full time CNG setup, which like Pierce mentioned, it gets real costly reaql quick also you limit the locations for refill. Have no idea of charges for fuel.

For me, I will stick with the Aqua Hot, but I also use the 120 volt element in the Aqua Hot while in the garage along with a 1200 watt heater in the coach to save/help/backup the A-H, have no idea if needed, but it makes me feel better.  ;D

Re: Propane to Natural gas conversion?

Reply #9 –
Thanks for the help.
Primus is no longer around, so I can't ask them.
I did send a email to a Primus parts supplier but have not heard back from him.
I thought about the idea and now think I'm making this too hard.
I will now try and find a LP gas distributor that will deliver and fill my LP gas tank on site.
The problem is NOBODY in Chicago has LP gas for home use.
1995 U320C SE 40'
Jeep 4x4 Commander - Limited - Hemi
"The Pack"  Yogi and Diesel our Airedales -  Charlie our Boxer/Akita mix. Gone but NEVER forgotten Jake our yellow Lab.
NRA Law Enforcement Firearms instructor - Handgun/shotgun
Regional Firearms instructor for national Armored Transp. Co.

Re: Propane to Natural gas conversion?

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Lon and Cheryl –
The problem is NOBODY in Chicago has LP gas for home use.

There must be somebody because I just googled "Ferrelgas Chicago" and there are three:

4809 West Lake Street
Melrose Park
(708) 343-8606

27w071 Saint Charles Rd
Carol Stream
(630) 231-0105

301 North 15th Street
Chesterton, IN
(574) 936-2725

Ferrelgas is, as far as I know, nationwide (there is one a mile from my house) and they also do repairs on valves, sell parts, etc.

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: Propane to Natural gas conversion?

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Lon and Cheryl –

I will now try and find a LP gas distributor that will deliver and fill my LP gas tank on site.
The problem is NOBODY in Chicago has LP gas for home use.

If you find a supplier you might consider a larger, externally-placed tank and an "extend a stay" adapter - that would let you run longer on a single delivery.  I believe you can rent/lease the larger tanks - a friend of ours has done that for his coach and we've seen a number of seasonal campers who use them as well.

Michelle
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Propane to Natural gas conversion?

Reply #12 –
You may wish to have them drop off a big rental tank to keep costs down for trip charges, or plumb in 40lb tanks you can refill. Standard grill attachment for rv will work
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: Propane to Natural gas conversion?

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Lon and Cheryl –
Thanks for the help.
Primus is no longer around, so I can't ask them.
I did send a email to a Primus parts supplier but have not heard back from him.
I thought about the idea and now think I'm making this too hard.
I will now try and find a LP gas distributor that will deliver and fill my LP gas tank on site.
The problem is NOBODY in Chicago has LP gas for home use.

Ferrelgas is great. If you have a home account, you just go to any Ferrelgas location and give them your account number and you get the home pricing. Don't even have to pay for it then, just shows up on your next statement. We pay $1.99/gal.

They will come to your house and set a tank for a very reasonable amount and you can schedule deliveries or put it on will call. If you call ahead, they will fill your Foretravel and any other tanks at the same time they are at the house.

As I remember, they are headquartered in Chicago.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Propane to Natural gas conversion?

Reply #14 –
Yup...Ferrellgas is a national gas ulitity that operates as a unit investment trust limited partnership.  It is well regarded in the industry and pays its "partners" a hefty return of capital...not a dividend.  There's a big difference.  Here's S&P's latest report:
 
Peter & Beth Martin
No Forrest? What have you done?
MC# 15890 until Dec 2016; FMCA #F329677
Cincinnati, OH

Re: Propane to Natural gas conversion?

Reply #15 –
Quote from: wa_desert_rat –
Quote from: Lon and Cheryl –
The problem is NOBODY in Chicago has LP gas for home use.

There must be somebody because I just googled "Ferrelgas Chicago" and there are three:





4809 West Lake Street
Melrose Park
(708) 343-8606

27w071 Saint Charles Rd
Carol Stream
(630) 231-0105

301 North 15th Street
Chesterton, IN
(574) 936-2725

Ferrelgas is, as far as I know, nationwide (there is one a mile from my house) and they also do repairs on valves, sell parts, etc.

Craig

I emailed Ferrelgas but have not heard back yet.
There are probably thousands of places to refill portable tanks in the Chicago area, the problem is with home delivery. I have never seen a home with a LP gas tank in the City. I contacted one LP gas dealer and they would not deliver to my home. I'm sure they need to have a certain number of customers in a area to make it worthwhile.

I don't know if the City would go for a outside LP tank either Chicago is VERY strict with building codes (we still have to use metal conduit on ALL electric runs, Must use galvanized water pipes and cast iron drain pipes,).
The portable tank idea will probably be the best option for me.
1995 U320C SE 40'
Jeep 4x4 Commander - Limited - Hemi
"The Pack"  Yogi and Diesel our Airedales -  Charlie our Boxer/Akita mix. Gone but NEVER forgotten Jake our yellow Lab.
NRA Law Enforcement Firearms instructor - Handgun/shotgun
Regional Firearms instructor for national Armored Transp. Co.