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Topic: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT (Read 8946 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #40 –
Don, there's another material you might consider instead of 3/16" aluminum panels. Blue Bird (BB) Wanderlodge uses this material on the inside of walls to add structural stiffness. It's a urethane fiberglass composite panel: Coosa Composites, LLC - Manufacture of high-density, fiberglass-reinforced I'm sure other manufacturers make similar products. You won't have the galvanic issues, it doesn't rot, it's light, and it provides structural stiffness. BB bonds it with structural adhesive (Sikaflex 221) and Tek screws.

Craig's right as usual, us engineer types are looking for Penn State Altoona, STURAA, (Surface Transportation and Uniform Relocation Assistance Act), 12 year/500,000 mile toughness.  :)  The kind of service most motorhomes will never see!

David Brady
'02 Blue Bird Wanderlodge LXi
NC

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #41 –
What's the deal with STURAA?  Just curious...I'm from Altoona.  As a boy I used to ice skate on the campus pond.  I'm sure they don't allow that these days.

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #42 –
Quote from: Dwayne –
What's the deal with STURAA?  Just curious...I'm from Altoona.  As a boy I used to ice skate on the campus pond.  I'm sure they don't allow that these days.

Not sure Dwayne, I don't have any involvement.  I think Altoona Sturaa testing is going strong, testing buses for anyone who wants to listen, and for municipalities and government agencies that are required to buy buses that pass the testing. There's a lot of info on their website. They do a good job, nothing emerges unscathed, a lot of failures of the suspension control arm pick up joints, as we're describing in this thread.

David Brady
'02 Blue Bird, Wanderlodge LXi
NC

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #43 –
Hi all,
I have been busy grinding rust and prepping for the replacement of some of the metal subframe parts and am close to being ready to tack weld some new pieces in prior to finalizing the welds when my son has the time. Today I have a few questions regarding the welding disconnect list and the location of some of the components... to start with, here is the list that pertains to our coach;

Disconnect the following before welding on completed coaches:

U270/U280/U295 - B-21 - Alternator ground at alternator
C-2 - Transmission ground at breakerboard
Allison ECU - Under dash / driver's side / both plugs
ABS - 3 plugs in brake ECU - Power in / Front axle / Rear axle
HWH -All grounds on coach and engine batteries

Here is the list with followed my comments/questions in parenthesis;
U270/U280/U295 - B-21 - Alternator ground at alternator (self explanatory)
C-2 - Transmission ground at breaker board (Does this refer to the electrical panel just inside the entry door next to the steps? It is difficult to see all of the connector labels because many are obscured by wires, but I don't find a "C-2" upon my initial examination.)
Allison ECU - Under dash / driver's side / both plugs (See picture, but my ECU seems to be mounted street side on the rear wall of the cargo compartment, not under the dash; and it has three large plugs- a grey, a black, and a blue. I am wondering if earlier coaches had just two plugs and the under dash location....)
ABS - 3 plugs in brake ECU - Power in / Front axle / Rear axle (I believe this refers to the black box mounted to the ceiling of the cargo compartment curb side near the center that says Midland-Grau ABS on it)
HWH -All grounds on coach and engine batteries (not sure what this refers to... the ground wires on the outside of the silver HWH Aluminum box just forward of the ABS ECU? As well as the starting battery grounds?

Any insight to the location of these components will be appreciated!
Don


Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #44 –
Quote from: acousticart –

U270/U280/U295 - B-21 - Alternator ground at alternator (self explanatory)
C-2 - Transmission ground at breaker board (Does this refer to the electrical panel just inside the entry door next to the steps? It is difficult to see all of the connector labels because many are obscured by wires, but I don't find a "C-2" upon my initial examination.)
Allison ECU - Under dash / driver's side / both plugs (See picture, but my ECU seems to be mounted street side on the rear wall of the cargo compartment, not under the dash; and it has three large plugs- a grey, a black, and a blue. I am wondering if earlier coaches had just two plugs and the under dash location....)
ABS - 3 plugs in brake ECU - Power in / Front axle / Rear axle (I believe this refers to the black box mounted to the ceiling of the cargo compartment curb side near the center that says Midland-Grau ABS on it)
HWH -All grounds on coach and engine batteries (not sure what this refers to... the ground wires on the outside of the silver HWH Aluminum box just forward of the ABS ECU? As well as the starting battery grounds?

Any insight to the location of these components will be appreciated!
Don
Don,

Not sure what C-2 is, but also check the main DC distribution board at the front of the street side center compartment (behind the white fiberglass cover).

Our Allison TCU is where yours is, as is the ABS controller.  I would just disconnect all cables from all controllers you can reach, and then pull the grounds from the coach and engine batteries.  I think you can pull the cables from the HWH controller (silver box on the ceiling of the bay) if you unscrew the cover.    I would also disconnect the cable from the HWH control panel in the dash, and if you really want to play it safe, maybe lift the Allison control panel (one with the joystick) and disconnect the cables from it.

I think if your welding ground clip is very close to the work area there shouldn't be much problem with induced current in the wiring.  Where you could get into trouble would be if you clipped the welding ground to the frame at the engine and then welded far away.


Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #45 –
Thanks Dave,
That is helpful info... I was puzzled by the instructions to disconnect both plugs under the dash when the Allison ECU has three, but perhaps earlier years had just two and were located under the dash. Your thinking about the ground clamp location and disconnecting the various "brains" and battery grounds makes sense to me, so that is how I will proceed.
Don

Quote from: Dave Katsuki –
Don,

Not sure what C-2 is, but also check the main DC distribution board at the front of the street side center compartment (behind the white fiberglass cover).

Our Allison TCU is where yours is, as is the ABS controller.  I would just disconnect all cables from all controllers you can reach, and then pull the grounds from the coach and engine batteries.  I think you can pull the cables from the HWH controller (silver box on the ceiling of the bay) if you unscrew the cover.    I would also disconnect the cable from the HWH control panel in the dash, and if you really want to play it safe, maybe lift the Allison control panel (one with the joystick) and disconnect the cables from it.

I think if your welding ground clip is very close to the work area there shouldn't be much problem with induced current in the wiring.  Where you could get into trouble would be if you clipped the welding ground to the frame at the engine and then welded far away.

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #46 –
Don,

I was thinking about your project, and installing the aluminum panels.  I'd recommend the use of 3M VHB tape.  There are many varieties of it, some costing several hundred dollars a roll, but the stuff you can buy at any auto paint place is incredibly strong.  The 1/2" X 20' long drive rack on my cnc router is attached with this stuff, no bolts.  I had to remove a section of it and it took a 3' crowbar and some bent metal to do it.  This drive rack engages pinion gears that hurtle the gantry and spindle, some 300 lbs of it, back and forth at high speeds, sometimes changing direction several times a second.  VHB tape is what semi trailers are put together with, the skins and framing, skyscraper facades, aircraft.  No muss, no fuss, no screws, permanent and it insulates the alum from steel. 

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3M-Industrial/Adhesives/Product/Bonding-Tapes/VHB-Tape/

Lots of this stuff available on ebay.


Chuck

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #47 –
Chuck, that is some impressive tape! Checked out some YouTube videos and was pretty blown away by the demos...
Don
Quote from: Chuck Pearson –
Don,

I was thinking about your project, and installing the aluminum panels.  I'd recommend the use of 3M VHB tape.  There are many varieties of it, some costing several hundred dollars a roll, but the stuff you can buy at any auto paint place is incredibly strong.  The 1/2" X 20' long drive rack on my cnc router is attached with this stuff, no bolts.  I had to remove a section of it and it took a 3' crowbar and some bent metal to do it.  This drive rack engages pinion gears that hurtle the gantry and spindle, some 300 lbs of it, back and forth at high speeds, sometimes changing direction several times a second.  VHB tape is what semi trailers are put together with, the skins and framing, skyscraper facades, aircraft.  No muss, no fuss, no screws, permanent and it insulates the alum from steel. 

solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3M-Industrial/Adhesives/Product/Bonding-Tapes/VHB-Tape/

Lots of this stuff available on ebay.


Chuck

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #48 –
I have been making some progress- slow progress, but progress nonetheless! I thought I would post a few some pictures for your entertainment... some are from earlier in the process, the latest from today. Light at the end of the tunnel? You decide. For me, I am seeing it!
Don

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #49 –
Looks like you are just about at the end of the tunnel. Nice work and clear photos! I close my eyes when I look at my compartments and bulkheads now.

Hip, Hip

Pierce

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #50 –
Awesome!  So when should I schedule to drop mine off? :P

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #51 –
Don, congratulations on a first class job you are doing. I have been in steel fabrication for many years earlier on and that is a nice job. Please make a file of the job as you proceeded and with photos as you whent and let barry include it in the Mods section of his FT website as that would be great info for future people (should they ever consider doing what you have almost done).
You may get a call from FT to work in their shop!!!!
John haygarth

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #52 –
Great job... breathtaking, in fact. I'm glad you're doing it and documenting it so I know that it can be done. I don't think I would have even considered it before seeing what you've done.

Thanks,
Craig

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #53 –
Thanks for the nice comments guys... every little bit of encouragement helps! I do plan on organizing my photos with some commentarty when I get the chance and put it in an album of some kind. I hope that it will be of use to those who find themselves in similar situations. This forum has been a source of great information and inspiration! Thanks to all who have generously shared their knowledge. I am looking forward to contributing a few tidbits of hardwon wisdom myself... More later! Good night all!
Don :D

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #54 –
Looks excellent Don. Very nice work.  ^.^d

It feels good when you can see the plan coming together.

Steve

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #55 –
Thanks Steve! :D It sure does feel good to be in the phase of the project where the progress is more noticeable, especially as opposed to the demolition phase when you aren't even sure how far to take it. At some point it felt like I was on a trajectory to demo the entire basement, since I originally was just going to do the standard bulkhead fix. Now I am glad I explored further because now I know the coach will be strong down there, not to mention all that I have learned while doing this project. I will have much to write about the subject, but that will have to wait awhile...
Don
P.S.here are a few more pics of some of today's progress. The previous set was the street side and this is the curb side, except the last pic which is an action shot ;D . On this side, I was able to leave the outside angle iron in place and I cut out the outermost 1&1/2" longitudinal square tube which was originally 16 gauge and thinned out by contact with the soaked plywood. I replaced it with new 13 gauge. That is what is in the pictures. I welded a nut to the square tubing for the outermost bolt on both sides. This nut is inside the outermost square tube on both sides. I am also using caged weld nuts where clearance allows on all the rest of the bulkhead bolts. There are a couple of places where I welded unistrut clip nuts. This will allow removal and replacement of all of the bulkhead bolts in the future without needing a wrench on the back side or a hole in the fiberglass to access them. The caged weld nuts are nice because they are easier to get started without risking cross threading.

Don
Quote from: Merle Hench –
Looks excellent Don. Very nice work.  ^.^d

It feels good when you can see the plan coming together.

Steve

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #56 –
Still progressing... Slowly, but surely! Here is a few more current pics...

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #57 –
I am thinking that my little $99 wire-feed welder I bought from Harbor Freight might not be up to that kind of job.

Frankly, until I saw what you're doing, I would not have believed that it would be possible to completely rebuild these portions of a motorhome. I wonder if the Unicoach/Unihome construction methods are the only ones that you could do this sort of work on.

As usual, awesome! Just awesome!!!

Craig

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #58 –
Beautiful work-- almost a shame to cover it up.

Brett

Re: Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT

Reply #59 –
Dang!!!  That's A+ work as my dear, departed father-in-law would say, as a RIP high school shop teacher, now in heaven doing the greatest camping trip of all.
Peter