Block Heater Overnight?

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Block Heater Overnight?

March 11, 2012, 11:41:11 pm

So before last night I would have bet money the far right switch at the bottom of my bed was the water heater and the left one was the block heater. Was going to bed late last night with all the lights off and flipped the switch thinking we'd want hot water in the morning. Woke up, no hot water so went to look and sure enough I had the switches reversed in my head. Any reason to be concerned with the block heater having been on for about 10 hours?

Your local idiot,
Benjie

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #1 – March 11, 2012, 11:45:06 pm

No. That is standard practice for us if we expect the morning temperatures to be below freezing, and we plan to start the engine in the morning.

I would not expect that to be a problem even at high temperatures.

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #2 – March 11, 2012, 11:55:19 pm

Thanks Dave! We really enjoyed dinner last night! Would love to do it again but maybe next time we can do it sans kiddos.

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #3 – March 12, 2012, 08:55:03 am

I was just thinking about this very question.... good to leave on overnight? Last night I left my block heater on for about 8 hours to see if it is working. The outside temp at 6am this morning was about 49 degrees. The intake manifold, which sticks up above the engine, was 50 degrees using a handheld IR thermometer. The block however was about 10 degrees warmer at 61 degrees. The engine was run about 12 hours earlier, but for only about 30 minutes.

So is the 61 degrees due to the residual heat in block or to the block heater? I would have thought the temp would have been higher.

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #4 – March 12, 2012, 10:41:37 am

George,

Really big block and really small block heater. A sure way to tell is to either check your voltmeter as someone switches on the block heater or put a digital voltmeter where you can see it when you flip the switch. If the voltage drops a little, it's working.

Pierce

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #5 – March 12, 2012, 11:25:24 am

Quote from: George Hatfield – March 12, 2012, 08:55:03 am

So is the 61 degrees due to the residual heat in block or to the block heater? I would have thought the temp would have been higher.

George,

Depends on ambient temperature when you got that 61 degree F reading. If it was 40 degrees out, it is working.

Said another way, what did other metal in the engine room read?

Brett

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #6 – March 12, 2012, 11:44:47 am

Quote from: George Hatfield – March 12, 2012, 08:55:03 am

I was just thinking about this very question.... good to leave on overnight? Last night I left my block heater on for about 8 hours to see if it is working. The outside temp at 6am this morning was about 49 degrees. The intake manifold, which sticks up above the engine, was 50 degrees using a handheld IR thermometer. The block however was about 10 degrees warmer at 61 degrees. The engine was run about 12 hours earlier, but for only about 30 minutes.

So is the 61 degrees due to the residual heat in block or to the block heater? I would have thought the temp would have been higher.

I always leave my block heater on all night when it is cold outside.
I found my block heater was not working when I left it on all night and it read 62 in the AM with outside temps around 50. Mine is usually reading over 90 degrees when it is left on all night.
Taking my reading from from the DIC (Digital Information Center) before I start up in the AM.
I used my Aquahot to warm the engine until I could replace the block heater when I replaced the cooling fluid.

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #7 – March 12, 2012, 01:28:55 pm

I always have the block heater on in the winter, too. It's interesting that my Dodge pickup truck - with essentially the same engine - has glow plugs and a "wait to start" light on the dash. The glow plugs warm the combustion chambers enough to allow the engine to start in cold temperatures without using a block heater.

Does the Cummins 5.9 in the 1993 U225 have glow plugs? And a "wait to start"? I couldn't find any mention of this in the documentation but didn't really look that hard for it either.

Craig

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #8 – March 12, 2012, 07:13:46 pm

[Snip: I used my Aquahot to warm the engine until I could replace the block heater when I replaced the cooling fluid.- Barry Beam]

Barry; at what interval/mileage did you replace the cooling-system fluid? Been considering doing that on my current yearly service, thou I test and treat it at least once a year to keep the levels within spec tolerances.

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #9 – March 12, 2012, 08:05:16 pm

Quote from: Chad and Judy – March 12, 2012, 07:13:46 pm

[Snip: I used my Aquahot to warm the engine until I could replace the block heater when I replaced the cooling fluid.- Barry Beam]

Barry; at what interval/mileage did you replace the cooling-system fluid? Been considering doing that on my current yearly service, thou I test and treat it at least once a year to keep the levels within spec tolerances.

The book says 84,000 - 72 mo.
168,000 - 144 mo.
Changing Filter every 14,000

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #10 – March 12, 2012, 11:01:52 pm

My wife bumped the switch as I was putting the coach away in storage (where it stays plugged in) and I didn't discover it until my father-in-law who owns the lot asked me if I knew why the electric bill (which he refuses to let me pay) went from $25 (I keep the fridge and battery charger/converter on) to over $100...so I started checking...and found the block heater on...and had been on for weeks...in Florida...in the summer. No apparent damage as far as I can tell. The block heater is now off at the circuit breaker.

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #11 – March 12, 2012, 11:08:12 pm

I unknowingly had my block heater on for 4 months of this winter. Sure made the monthly runs of the Big engine quick starting. Other than raising my electric bill @$80 a month, there seems to be no damage. Of course I have had to apologize to the electric company about their supposed over-charging.... Andy1

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #12 – March 12, 2012, 11:32:09 pm

Craig,

You asked about the 5.9 having glow plugs. We do not have them, but we have ether injection, button on the dash, and a can located on my left rear corner by the taillight. Plus no wait to start like on many diesels.

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #13 – March 12, 2012, 11:56:09 pm

Quote from: Dave and Dolly Cobb – March 12, 2012, 11:32:09 pm

Craig,

You asked about the 5.9 having glow plugs. We do not have them, but we have ether injection, button on the dash, and a can located on my left rear corner by the taillight. Plus no wait to start like on many diesels.

I know it has been used for years, but really ether is not good for any engine, and even worse for one that has glow plugs. And my 5.9 will start when the temps are down in the low 20s. I don't believe any Cummins 5.9 or 6.7 engine has glow plugs. They use a heater grid in the air intake just before the air enters the engine. The ether will do very nasty things to that heater grid!!!

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #14 – March 13, 2012, 09:55:45 am

Pat is right that Dodge 5.9's use grid heaters, not glow plugs. Ether systems are not compatible with either. My '98 Dodge also has a block heater, and it's use is recommended for temps below 40 degrees. Craig, doesn't yours? The plug is hidden behind the front bumper.

Chad, Cummins no longer recommends periodically changing ELC unless it is contaminated or fails refractometer or chemistry tests.

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #15 – March 13, 2012, 02:30:33 pm

Quote from: amos.harrison – March 13, 2012, 09:55:45 am

Pat is right that Dodge 5.9's use grid heaters, not glow plugs. Ether systems are not compatible with either. My '98 Dodge also has a block heater, and it's use is recommended for temps below 40 degrees. Craig, doesn't yours? The plug is hidden behind the front bumper.

Yes, my '94 Dodge 5.9 has a block heater and it's plugged in all winter. I always thought it used glow plugs so I've learned something new here. The use of ether is always problematic; I try to avoid it if at all possible. Our farm tractors sometimes needed it in the spring after a winter layover but we were always careful to begin cranking and use a short spurt while continuing to crank and, if it doesn't start, keep cranking long enough to move residual ether out of the combustion chambers. Then repeat. Farm tractor diesels are pretty stout, thankfully. Not sure I'd want to try it on a Cummins.

Craig

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #16 – March 13, 2012, 03:51:01 pm

Quote from: wa_desert_rat – March 13, 2012, 02:30:33 pm

Yes, my '94 Dodge 5.9 has a block heater and it's plugged in all winter. I always thought it used glow plugs so I've learned something new here. The use of ether is always problematic; I try to avoid it if at all possible. Our farm tractors sometimes needed it in the spring after a winter layover but we were always careful to begin cranking and use a short spurt while continuing to crank and, if it doesn't start, keep cranking long enough to move residual ether out of the combustion chambers. Then repeat. Farm tractor diesels are pretty stout, thankfully. Not sure I'd want to try it on a Cummins.

Craig

The new starting fluid sprays on the market are not as bad as ether. But to much is not good, and in the frustration of trying to start a diesel in the cold winter, to much is easy to do.

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #17 – March 13, 2012, 04:19:00 pm

The hydraulic pump mounting bracket blocks the normal spot for the Detroit 2 cycle block heater. Instead, they have mounted the heater in a poor, more remote location (not on the block) where most of the heat produced is lost. The other location suggested for the heater does not have the removable plug in our 6V-92TA application as most of the earlier models do. I have mounted mine next to the 3 engine batteries along with a pump to constantly circulate the hot water from one side of the block to the other when the heater is switched on.

All the manufactures of block heaters I have seen want the heater to be switched OFF before the engine is cranked to avoid damage to the heating rod. Probably worried about large air bubbles causing momentary hot spots on the heating rod.

Many owners use ether on cold mornings. Yes, it can cause problems if you have a heated intake screen but even worse is using ether on a hot engine after changing fuel filters, etc. when it does not restart immediately. The ether may explode well before the pistons have reached TDC causing a pressure/shock wave that can damage the compression rings or even possibly bend a connecting rod. That's what the loud knocking noise is when you use ether to start (and it's not opportunity).

Pierce

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #18 – March 13, 2012, 06:36:21 pm

My block heater was not working (see previous post). Reason I am sure of this? It was unplugged. Below are some pics of the block heater location on the 400ISL engine and the plug which is located in the wiring under the foot of the bed. Its on the driver's side of the wiring enclosure. I have yet to test it to see if it actually works when plugged in. Stay tuned.

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #19 – March 13, 2012, 08:45:55 pm

One of the easier fixes, huh George.

Craig

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #20 – March 14, 2012, 12:58:21 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – March 13, 2012, 04:19:00 pm

The ether may explode well before the pistons have reached TDC causing a pressure/shock wave that can damage the compression rings or even possibly bend a connecting rod. That's what the loud knocking noise is when you use ether to start (and it's not opportunity).

Pierce

I didn't want to be the one to mention the explode word. Something I picked up around the refinery. Kind of like the fire it up phrase which is a no no at refineries too.

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #21 – March 14, 2012, 01:47:45 pm

IF you need ether to start your engine, why not get it fixed before it gets more costly from the ether use.
Every time you use ether, your engine develops less HP due to the weakening of the top compression rings, IE, less HP, eventually you will need ether to start on a warm day.
This is not something NEW, this is fact like water runs down hill.
Good part, its your engine, so do what makes you the happiest.

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #22 – March 15, 2012, 09:13:42 am

Ether, also known as engine death in a can. It is good for cleaning parts, though.

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #23 – March 15, 2012, 07:26:29 pm

I use the Aquahot to heat the engine more than the block heater. I just hit the third switch. I have been able to start at zero degrees with no issues. I have used the block heater all the time in my 99 8.3 but this ISM has no glow plugs and is a bit tough to start when cold. I had the ECM upgraded at Cummins. IT was for hard start issues. There were 27 upgrades. It starts like a champ now with no problems in the cold. I use it all the time in the winter. If you have an electronic ISM and have had hard start issues in the cold, get to a Cummins shop and have them read the ECM. If they reflash it and it fries you will have to buy a new one but it made a huge difference.

Re: Block Heater Overnight?

Reply #24 – March 15, 2012, 11:03:50 pm

Reliable basement heat and engine heat are a couple of the advantages of the AquaHot. Those of us in the Poortravel club rely on propane furnaces for basement and cabin heat.

We must rely on the block heater to warm the engine a bit for starting in cold weather.

I guess it might be possible to put a water pump in the antifreeze circuit to the Atwood three way water heater. Perhaps the water heater could provide heat for the engine in cold weather. Surely someone has tried that! Ingenious folk have rigged all kinds of special devices. How about it?

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