How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Topic: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant (Read 1594 times) previous topic - next topic

How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

March 29, 2012, 02:23:57 pm

Short note on how we replaced our anti-freeze coolant this week.

Cummins Fleetguard
ES Compleat EG
Ethylene Glycol
CC2825 Premixed 50/50 gallon
$15.24 / gallon

Used almost 14 gallons
Carry another 2 sealed gallons for future top-offs

PowerTech 8-kw Isuzu used ¾ gallon for radiator & overflow

Cummins C-8.3 overflow container used about 1 gallon.
Engine & radiator used about 12 gallons.

Opened petcock on bottom of radiator & on engine street side's oil cooler to drain.
Used drill pump to empty overflow containers and transfer new coolant to engine.

Remove coolant filter to let air in during draining & out during filling. (Thanks Steve Hill)

1.   Drained engine coolant into pans for over an hour until drip almost stopped.
2.   Filled engine coolant system with tap water from hose.
3.   Drove around for 20 minutes to heat and circulate coolant system with water.
4.   Drained flush into drain pans.
5.   Better to fill engine coolant system with distilled water for 2nd rinse. (Thanks Brett)
6.   Drove around for 20 minutes to heat and circulate coolant system with water.
7.   Drained flush into drain pans.
8.   Filled engine with almost 12 gallons of new coolant.

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #1 – March 29, 2012, 02:31:27 pm

Sounds very good, But having the Aqua Hot tied in with the engine cooling system, I have been thinkng about best way to flush the entire (includinhg the A-H) system.
Then you have the heating/furnace system to flush too.
Hate to think about the gallons needed for that project with the ISM450.
Dave M

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #2 – March 29, 2012, 02:33:31 pm

Barry,

Assuming you stuck with the same coolant and didn't need to use a cleaner, sounds OK, though I use distilled water for the last rinse.

And, did you use coolant concentrate or pre-dilute? What is your system total capacity?

Brett

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #3 – March 29, 2012, 02:54:19 pm

Even though I was told that the system is self-purging, when I refill the system, I leave the coolant filter (located high on engine) off until coolant just starts to pour out, then screw on filter. Probably means nothing, but just makes me feel like I'm getting most air out.

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #4 – March 29, 2012, 04:33:54 pm

Is the es compleat the blue stuff? If so id appreciate knowing what the proper filter is.

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #5 – March 29, 2012, 07:41:24 pm

I set heater temperature control to HOT setting, to flush the long heater hoses and heater core.

Steve's idea to leave coolant filter off when draining and filling to allow air to vent is a great idea.

ES Compleat coolant is blue and is fully formulated for DCA, so only a neutral Fleetguard WF-2077 coolant filter is used.
Every test of coolant during the last 4-years showed adequate DCA, so I also used a WF-2077 filter 2-years ago.
One of the advantages of this Permanent coolant is that usually does not seem to deplete its DCA.

I have never had to add Supplemental Coolant Additives (SCA) DCA-4 liquid or with coolant filters since I switched to ES Compleat.

I like Brett's idea of using 14 gallons of distilled water for the last flush.

I used 50/50% pre-mixed CC2825 anti-freeze, instead of adding our own distilled water.

On all previous coolant changes, we used about 13.5 gallons of pre-mixed anti-freeze, so our system capacity has been consistent. But I am not sure of the rated system capacity.

I revised my original posting to include Steve & Brett's ideas.

Aqua Hot has an engine coil that heats and get heated, but I assume it does not increase coolant capacity very much. But the M11 requires a lot more coolant than our C-8.2 engine.

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #6 – March 29, 2012, 08:28:46 pm

Did you use the same coolant for the Isuzu diesel engine or did you use a different coolant? If different, what did you use?

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #7 – March 29, 2012, 08:47:17 pm

I replace the coolant in our Cummins with Final Charge ELC from the Cummins Dealer $10.50 a gal.

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #8 – March 29, 2012, 08:50:14 pm

Unless you blew out the lines to water heater and dash heater, you do NOT have a 50/50 coolant/water mixture if you used per-dilute because of the gallons of trapped water in those lines, water heater and dash heater core.

Suggestion: Test the coolant, but suspect you will be draining a couple of gallons and using concentrate to get back to a 50/50 mixture.

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #9 – March 29, 2012, 09:14:00 pm

I use fleetguard ES compleat OAT with blank water filter on engine, aquahot and generator.
No need to test for SCA.

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #10 – March 29, 2012, 11:15:46 pm

General anti-freeze question... What's the proper disposal method?

see ya
ken

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #11 – March 30, 2012, 10:30:39 am

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – March 29, 2012, 02:23:57 pm

PowerTech 8-kw Isuzu used ¾ gallon for radiator & overflow

Barry,

Did you completely change the coolant in the generator? 3/4 gal does sound correct for the radiator only. First time I changed the generator coolant, I could not find a block drain, and it took several flushes before it was clear. Then it didn't take much antifreeze to refill. Later during the next change, I found a block drain which is just a screw in plug on the back side of the engine down under the exhaust manifold. Very hard to get to, and a mirror is needed to see it, but it does seem to drain the block. Hard to catch the coolant as it dumps onto the splash guard under the generator. Took more than 3/4 gal to completely refill the second time. This is from memory and the quantity could be wrong. I believe I removed the air cleaner and rubber hose to the intake manifold to make it easier to get to the drain.

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #12 – March 30, 2012, 12:10:46 pm

Quote from: kenhat – March 29, 2012, 11:15:46 pm

General anti-freeze question... What's the proper disposal method?

see ya
ken

Ken,

Many city vehicle maintenance departments will accept used coolant for recycle.

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #13 – March 30, 2012, 12:15:46 pm

Several have PM's for how I change coolant. Wrote this for the Caterpillar RV Engine Owners Club, but most will apply to other applications:

Cooling System 101-- the step by step on properly replacing coolant.

I just changed out my coolant and replaced all water hoses and belts. Thought I would share the experience.
To my knowledge all RV manufacturers use a "low silicate coolant for diesels" with included or added SCA. Coolant needs to be changed per manufacturer's instructions (usually every 3 years). Additionally the SCA, pH and freeze point need to be checked on regular intervals using SCA test strips and SCA added as needed. The test strips are inexpensive and easy to use. When either the time lapses (time starts when coolant is installed in cooling system, NOT when purchased) or testing reveals an out-of-line conditions like pH or freeze point, it is time to change it. You can avoid all the testing and SCA adding, and go to 6 year change intervals by going to an Extended Life Coolant and get better cooling system protection as well. Whichever coolant you choose, most of the steps are the same. The job is reasonably time consuming TO DO RIGHT, but low-tech.

First step is to determine your total cooling system capacity. Your chassis maker or coach maker, not your engine manufacturer is the proper source. Then buy enough coolant (concentrate, not pre-dilute) to make up 50% of that volume. If going back with a coolant that requires additional SCA, purchase that as well. Also purchase 1.5 times system capacity of distilled water for a final flush plus final fill (50%).

Turn dash heater to full hot for the rest of the procedure—fan off. With the engine cold or at least cool, drain coolant. On some, there is a drain cock. On others, pull the lower radiator hose. Two Rubbermade 10 gallon storage bin lined with black trash sacks so they don't get dirty work well. At the end of the whole process, use a coffee can and funnel to pour old coolant into new coolant/water containers for recycling. Our city maintenance shop recycles coolant for free.

Refill cooling system with tap water. IMPORTANT: Be sure to remove any air lock from the thermostat housing. Some systems have a hose set up for this—on ours I just loosen the coolant line to the air pump and bleed the air out. Allow engine to warm up (using the cruise control to select idle speed of 1,000-1,100 speeds this up). Run for about 10 minutes at regular temp. If the temp gauge does not rise as normal, you likely have an air block and need to bleed the thermostat housing. Allow engine to cool 20-30 minutes and drain again. Repeat until the effluent color is clear.

At this point, if this is the first coolant change on a 2-3 year old coach and you are not changing coolant brands/types, skip right to "Last rinse". For older systems or when switching types of coolant, add a Cooling System Cleaner. Follow the directions. Run, allow engine to cool, drain and again flush until effluent is clear. The flushing is markedly sped up by pulling off the heater hose (usually 5/8" to ¾" lines) going to dash heater/motor-aid water heater, etc from the water pump. Put a hose nozzle in the hose and let it run until it comes out clear. Run the engine to temperature at least once with tap water.

If your hoses are over 3-4 years old, this is a good time to change them as well (before last rinse). Same for thermostat(s).
Last Rinse is with distilled water. At $.62/gal at Walmart, it is silly to skip this step and leave your system full of high-mineral content water (there will be several gallons of residual water that you can not easily remove). Run engine for 10 minutes after getting to operating temperature. Cool and drain. Also drain and flush your coolant overflow container and refill with new coolant/distilled water.

Add the proper amount of Coolant CONCENTRATE (NOT PRE-DILUTE) to make 50% of cooling system capacity. So for a cooling system with 20 gallons capacity, add 10 gallons of Coolant CONCENTRATE (plus 1/2 overflow container capacity). Top off with distilled water to achieve your 50/50 mixture—it doesn't matter if you only have to add 1 gallon or 10 of distilled water, you KNOW you have the proper 50/50 mixture.

This is also a good time to clean the OUTSIDE of the radiator/after-cooler whether you have rear or side radiator. On rear radiator, most if the debris will be on the FRONT of the after-cooler (accessed from under the bed). On side radiators, most debris is on the outside of the after-cooler (side of coach). If it is just dirt, a hose and regular nozzle is all you need. If greasy or oily, use Joy liquid (dish washing detergent) in a spray bottle. Be SURE to rinse it off completely. You need to insure that the perimeter is as clean as the center. Ya, I know it is easier to see the center, but the fan blades "sling" the dirt to the perimeter.

Check belts while you are in there.

Brett Wolfe

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #14 – March 30, 2012, 12:58:22 pm

It makes great sense that we are not fully draining the generator engine block by using just the radiator drain cock. We did flush the generator more than two times, since it was so easy drain and we were waiting for engine to drain.

And since we don't drain engine heater hoses and core, it makes more sense to use distilled water for the last rinse and use the correct amount of concentrated anti-freeze for generator and engine. Then top off with distilled water. It may take some research to determine correct coolant total capacity for engine and generator.

We did use the same anti-freeze for generator. Cummins states the anti-freeze is good for all diesel and gasoline engines.

There are many different incompatible anti-freeze chemistries out there these days and mixing some can cause problems. Gone are the days of Prestone for every engine, so it is important to determine what is currently in the cooling system and decide to continue using the same or change after thorough flushing. Some engines recommend specific types of anti-freeze.

Anti-freeze is much more than a solution to keep coolant from freezing. Along with lowering freeze-point, it raises boiling-point and has additives to prevent internal engine damage and increase heat absorbsion.

Also gone are the days of cavalier methods disposing of used anti-freeze. We decided to use a small local auto repair place that had lots of room for our motorhome on the side of their building. We did all the work and they supplied the drain pans, disposal of first drain & flushing drains and water hose. They pretty much left us alone during the 5 hours it took us to complete the job and we paid them $50 for their services.

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #15 – March 30, 2012, 11:15:06 pm

I use Fleetgard ES compleat OAT, since it is compatible with the Texaco ELC my coach came with. So far none of the systems has failed a sample analysis. Is there a reason you are changing permanent coolant? Do you know what caused your coolant to fail?

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #16 – March 30, 2012, 11:49:05 pm

We replaced coolant just be on the safe side. This is our 3rd time using the same Permanent coolant in our coach. Feels like a good choice to help prolong the life of our engine.

I use Fleetguard test strips and it always has been ok, but really color matching is not a very exact. Just seems that spending $350 for new coolant is worth it.

And I like not having to add DCA, as every test has shown it holds up over time.

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #17 – March 31, 2012, 10:11:15 am

Brett,

To my knowledge, no coolant is permanent (put it in and forget it). The OAT-based long life coolants are just that-- they have a longer life, but do require testing and if needed a "booster" added or if out of spec changed.

Most long life coolants have a 6 year recommended life. Like many other things with HD diesels, service intervals are usually written for OTR trucks that pile up a lot of hours/miles.

If you find one whose manufacturer recommends more than 6 years (and is approved by Cat, Cummins, DD for use in diesels) would love to know about it. Many state huge number of miles/engine hours, but when pressed, most DO recommend change based on time alone.

The other Brett

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #18 – March 31, 2012, 12:13:37 pm

From
ES Compleat?

"Lifetime coolant with service interval at 150,000 mi, 250 km, 4000 hrs"

Not sure who's lifetime they are referring to, but Cummins says they have lifetime coolant.

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #19 – March 31, 2012, 11:31:32 pm

Brett,

I agree with your qualifier-test every six months, supplement if required, but as Barry & Cindy quote-change OAT only if contaminated.

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #20 – April 02, 2012, 10:14:16 am

Will anyone share experience with submitting coolant to a lab for analysis? It seems like a relatively low cost way to get the most life out of coolant while minimizing the risk of damage.

I was favorably impressed with the service from Blackstone Labs for oil analysis, but they don't do coolant. They recommended ALS Lab in Cleveland, OH. Cummins advertises coolant analysis along with their advertisements for oil analysis.

I have used test strips to check for SCAs, but it seems that a more thorough analysis might be in order.

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #21 – April 02, 2012, 10:41:09 am

Please be aware that the SCA test strips are reasonably limited in term of WHAT COOLANT CHEMISTRY they test for.

Example, we check SCA level on all coaches with "regular low silicate for diesel with added SCA" at each Caterpillar RV Engine Owners Club Rally. But, those test strips are specifically NOT for OAT-based coolants. Caterpillar has a specific coolant test strip for their OAT-based ELC coolant.

So, please verify that the strips you use are designated for the coolant you have.

Also, the coolant test strips have a finite shelf life, with expiration date on them. They can give false results if used after the expiration date.

Re: How we replaced our anti-freeze coolant

Reply #22 – April 03, 2012, 04:50:58 pm

JG Lubricant Analysis (877) 971-7799 does coolant analysis.

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