Resonator and muffler replacement

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Resonator and muffler replacement

April 09, 2012, 10:01:33 pm

Well, I have finally have the chance to test the resonator on a long trip. I am 2000 plus miles into it and to put it bluntly, I wish I did it sooner. More power on the hills and better milage. I have done this trip before and even with the headwind I am using less fuel and climbing the hills easier. Tmps have been lower but so is ambient so that test will have to wait a bit.

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #1 – April 10, 2012, 08:38:37 am

John, I fully understand and agree, the thing I do not understand is simply, why everyone has not made the change, maybe some do not beleive that it makes any improvement, or worried about the noise or what I am not sure.

I have no idea about the newer engine setups that are sensing the exhaust and/or using the DEF, or have the muffler system that needs removed and cleaned by Cummins, there sure are some fancy exhaust systems for the EPA that make it difficult to change much.

The beauty is that it works on all the different engine setups prior to about 2006.

Seems everyone who has changed to the resonator would never go back to the old restrictive, heat producing, heavy, expensive muffler that also takes up so much space.
Cheers
Dave M

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #2 – April 10, 2012, 08:45:43 am

I need edgicatin' here

. Is the resonator a replacement part for the muffler? If so, can a Cummins dealer install one, or make the conversion. What are the costs involved for the benefit received?

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #3 – April 10, 2012, 10:09:32 am

Peter, I think John S. can give a better answer to that than I, as I do my own work on exhaust etc.
Dave M

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #4 – April 10, 2012, 12:12:05 pm

Definition of a resonator in a automotive muffler system: "Some cars, especially luxury cars where quiet operation is a key feature, have another component in the exhaust that looks like a muffler, but is called a resonator. This device works just like the resonator chamber in the muffler -- the dimensions are calculated so that the waves reflected by the resonator help cancel out certain frequencies of sound in the exhaust." In simple terms, it bounces the noise around inside a chamber which is "tuned" to change the noise into a nicer sounding noise. In the case of a diesel muffler system on a Class 8 tractor, there is no resonator because the muffler is much larger. In a recreational DP such as a Foretravel, the muffler is much smaller, therefore requiring a resonator to make the system sound nicer.

On a diesel, the turbo is considered a muffling devise, and is all that is required by law in most states. Most states only require the muffling devise (turbo) as part of the state required safety inspection system. But some states also have a law on the books that says you cannot alter or modify the oem muffler system. Many shops where I live will refuse to remove the stock muffler and replace it with a resonator, citing NYS law, and claiming they could get in trouble because they are a state registered repair shop. I really doubt that they could get in trouble. But there are custom shops, who are also NYS registered repair shops, where I live that will not hesitate doing this work. I would think a Cummins owned shop might refuse to do this work on the basis that it would void the Cummins warranty. But a independent certified Cummins shop might be more than willing to do this work. I believe Pittsburgh Power - High performance diesel engine systems was a Cummins certified shop at one time, and I am sure that they would do this type of work. It is what they specialize in today. But they do things to Cummins engines that would make Cummins engineers cringe, like getting 1200 hp out of a Cummins 5.9 6BT engine.

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #5 – April 10, 2012, 12:28:13 pm

Pat... I assume you have done the resonator mod on your U225. The muffler on mine is gigantic! But it appears that the pipes associated with it are 3". I have a Pacbrake but it's a long way away from the muffler. I'd love to get that thing out of there but not sure what to buy to replace it with.

I'd be interested in any details from any U225 owner. Pics would be nice.

I've looked through the archives and haven't found anything specific.

I couldn't believe how big the muffler was when I looked under there. Sheesh!

Craig

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #6 – April 10, 2012, 12:46:40 pm

A few points as I see em, Warranty issue, Cummins did at one point (I beleive) had a 5 year / 100K mile warranty, I would be amazed at the number of owners who have a coach that fits in that paramiter, that are concerned about a resonator.
Second Cummins is more concerned about exhaust restriction than how free it is. The freer the better.
Just one comment for the ISM owners who are thinking of the change from the 450 to 500 hp settings, do the resonator first, the turbo change will not fit with the factory origional monster muffler.
Having improved power and fuel burn rates are not for everyone, it is easy to just leave it alone and that is not all that bad.
Enjoy
Dave M

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #7 – April 10, 2012, 01:16:53 pm

peter
I changed my exhaust system from a 4 inch to a 5 inch from the flex pipe to the end. I ran this straight pipe setup for 3000 miles. It was a little noisy to say the least. I then inserted an aero 5050 into the system and I think it is great.

the aero 5050 was $135.00. the rest of the pieces including a new flex pipe, some 5 inch pipe and a few elbows, a couple of hangers, clamps and a new 5 inch chrome tip was about $300.00.

I also had to enlarge the hole where the tip comes through the fiberglass. I have ran this setup now for about 7000 miles. I think I can claim a slight improvement on power and mileage, but if the window is open, the growl of the engine makes it a great upgrade.

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #8 – April 10, 2012, 01:27:51 pm

Quote from: Wayne Macauley – April 10, 2012, 01:16:53 pm

peter
I changed my exhaust system from a 4 inch to a 5 inch from the flex pipe to the end. I ran this straight pipe setup for 3000 miles. It was a little noisy to say the least. I then inserted an aero 5050 into the system and I think it is great.

the aero 5050 was $135.00. the rest of the pieces including a new flex pipe, some 5 inch pipe and a few elbows, a couple of hangers, clamps and a new 5 inch chrome tip was about $300.00.

I also had to enlarge the hole where the tip comes through the fiberglass. I have ran this setup now for about 7000 miles. I think I can claim a slight improvement on power and mileage, but if the window is open, the growl of the engine makes it a great upgrade.

Wayne,
Thanks for the details.
Peter

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #9 – April 10, 2012, 05:30:23 pm

Quote from: Peter & Beth – April 10, 2012, 08:45:43 am

I need edgicatin' here . Is the resonator a replacement part for the muffler? If so, can a Cummins dealer install one, or make the conversion. What are the costs involved for the benefit received?

I had CUmmins in Roanoke do mine. I got the parts List from Dave and they took two days to do it. One day to really do it but to make it fit and and to TIG weld it all together. So, it was one full day and I was out by 10 am the next. The muffler had a hole in it and the resonator was the replacement. I saved weight and it sounds great. It is a bit deeper throated sound. The turbo spools up much faster and the power is better too. I held speeds that I could not have done on this trip. I love it and now I have to think on upgrading the engine as well... Dave might have created a monster. Oh the cost was split between parts and labor and ran about 1800 bucks with taxes. I will say that my situation was much more difficult as the batteries were right near the muffler and if it was not set up that way, you could be done in about 4 hours...

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #10 – April 10, 2012, 06:32:17 pm

Quote from: John S – April 10, 2012, 05:30:23 pm

I had CUmmins in Roanoke do mine. I got the parts List from Dave and they took two days to do it. One day to really do it but to make it fit and and to TIG weld it all together. So, it was one full day and I was out by 10 am the next. The muffler had a hole in it and the resonator was the replacement. I saved weight and it sounds great. It is a bit deeper throated sound. The turbo spools up much faster and the power is better too. I held speeds that I could not have done on this trip. I love it and now I have to think on upgrading the engine as well... Dave might have created a monster. Oh the cost was split between parts and labor and ran about 1800 bucks with taxes. I will say that my situation was much more difficult as the batteries were right near the muffler and if it was not set up that way, you could be done in about 4 hours...

John,
Thanks for the details. It does sound like a very good upgrade when the time comes to replace the muffler.
Peter

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #11 – April 10, 2012, 08:30:02 pm

Peter, you can do the change over it is really easy. I did mine and had never done exhaust work before and have a really bad back that will not allow me to lay on my back etc, that is why I took the side panel off. That is the only way to do this kind of job IMHO.
I think my cost of parts was around $200 so I think to pay some shop $1500 is crazy, unless you cannot physically do it. That is 375 galls of fuel !!!
John H

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #12 – April 10, 2012, 08:34:12 pm

Quote from: John Haygarth – April 10, 2012, 08:30:02 pm

Peter, you can do the change over it is really easy. I did mine and had never done exhaust work before and have a really bad back that will not allow me to lay on my back etc, that is why I took the side panel off. That is the only way to do this kind of job IMHO.
I think my cost of parts was around $200 so I think to pay some shop $1500 is crazy, unless you cannot physically do it. That is 375 galls of fuel !!!
John H

John,
I've never done this type of exhaust work, but I can probably do it with some guidance and a recommended parts/tools list.
Peter

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #13 – April 10, 2012, 08:47:59 pm

A few more details. 2558 miles total from initial fill to final fill in Cour de Lane and this trip I used 374.56 gallons. Drove faster up the hills made better time by three plus hours vs 412.31 gallons. Some Aquahot use and a small amount of genset use. In fact it was cold and we had snow on the ground both times. I would wake up turn on the generator to bulk charge the batteries four times for a total of ten hours or so. The Aquahot also ran both trips on diesel as well. I beat the average on Silverleaf by about the same amount as the actual gallons. I figured a bit less than 1 mpg and it worked out to a bit more the .75 on Silverleaf. 38 gallons times 4.19 saved me 159 bucks on the way out. If I save the same on the way home I will have paid 16 % of the cost in one trip.

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #14 – April 10, 2012, 08:53:06 pm

They did mine two months after my back surgery. I was lucky to drive the 150 miles there and back. Took all my strength and the extra day was a blessing. I stayed over one more to rest. I could have done it yes but sometimes it is easier and cheaper to pay. Mine was odd and had to go around three batteries and still fit. They brought out a lot of parts to make it fit and there is only one piece of flex. They also had to weld on the frame a hanger to hold it up. So some setups are more complex than others.

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #15 – April 10, 2012, 09:37:58 pm

So John 0 no real problems removing the driver's side panel? Just remove the vertical and horizontal trim pieces and then there a re screws under that that hold it in place?

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #16 – April 10, 2012, 09:41:07 pm

I have removed the panel before on the other side but it is not just the removal of the panel. On most coaches, I think it would be an easy fix, on mine it was not so I had Cummins do it.

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #17 – April 10, 2012, 10:25:56 pm

Quote from: Peter & Beth – April 10, 2012, 08:34:12 pm

..............................I've never done this type of exhaust work, but I can probably do it with some guidance and a recommended parts/tools list......................................
Peter

Peter,
You're probably well aware, but I included a parts list, with prices, in my slide show:
http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=media;sa=album;in=210
When you look at my costs, bear in mind that we were obsessive about using ONLY 304SS materials (which increases longevity, but significantly increases cost). My son also designed and welded two hangers and a heavy gauge 304 SS tailpipe that eliminates the exhaust exit port and chrome plated tailpipe "short-half-life" issues.

I was one of the early mods and I have around 30K miles on the system now. I remain very pleased with the changes. As Dave and John and others have noted with the big blocks, the improved power and faster spool-up is distinct (and is certainly welcome in the 8.3). The deeper exhaust note is much more mellow and is minus the original hiss/wheeze (created by the original restrictions). As far as I can tell, there is improvement in the range of at least a half mi./gallon. It would be more if we weren't pulling the 9K trailer. Last fall, we hauled all of our "6 months in FL STUFF", plus the car, plus the Gold Wing all the way from NH to the Black Hills, to Albuquerque and then on to FL, averaging better fuel mileage than I had ever gotten before with the trailer in tow. I really should do up a spreadsheet of the Before/After changes. Just been too busy enjoying sunny FL. Among many other things, we put 8K on the bike this winter.
I got my son involved because I have little "hands on" welding experience/expertise and he's exceptionally talented. Other than that, you could do the same thing for similar cost.
Enjoy the journey!

Neal

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #18 – April 10, 2012, 10:32:24 pm

Yup, mine is welded too. It is one of the reasons I had Cummins do it. I will say that it makes mountains much easier to drive.

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #19 – April 10, 2012, 10:49:44 pm

Quote from: Neal Pillsbury – April 10, 2012, 10:25:56 pm

Peter,
You're probably well aware, but I included a parts list, with prices, in my slide show:
http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=media;sa=album;in=210 <snip>
Neal

Oh yes, I remember now, Neal. Your installation is far superior to what any commercial enterprise would spec out for profit, and cost infinitely more. My brother-in-law has a welder, so there is a chance!
Peter

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #20 – April 10, 2012, 11:45:28 pm

It is nice to have some of the parts welded BUT it is not really necessary if you have good hangers and proper bracing in the right places. You do not want it tight or vibrations/engine movement etc will soon cause cracks or worse still damage to connection at turbo. There has to be a bit of play in the system as I was told by a long time muffler guy.
Peter, the removal of side panel is not a problem (was not on my 2000) and yes it is held on by a series of screws around the perimeter and a couple holding the bottom edge in place. Just look at it and it makes sense what has to come off. If I were you I would not bother with trying to get all the bits you will use till you take the old stuff off and just replicate what was there without the muffler. Maybe buy the resonator as this will help you in figuring out your design and what length of pipe and flex you will need. I put the res' just before the tailpipe so I could hang it easily as that was the heaviest piece. I used about 48" of stainless flex from turbo then an elbow and then a 4-5" coupling that was fabricated by the muffler shop for me, so I had 5" from flex out to end. The res' I used was the Fleetguard one from Cummins. Works good.
I will be taking mine back off to do the rear end synthetic oil replacement soon as I cannot work under the coach with my back, so 30mins taking it off to me is better, and while it is off I will be replacing my air cond' dryer and a few other things that are easy to do with the space made.
John H

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #21 – April 12, 2012, 01:04:02 am

I had my old muffler removed and replaced with an Aero AT5050XL 5 inch resonator.

I decided this job was better left to someone else who would have the correct pipe and fittings. After deciding the trouble it would be for me to find the exact parts needed to replace the muffler.

I found the Aero AT5050XL on Ebay for $103.00
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & and took it to Freightliner in Ontario CA.

They charged $703 Parts and Labor. Total cost for Replacement $806.00 Took less than 4 hours.

The parts for my install is
- 10 inches of 5 inch stainless flex from turbo
-connected to a 90 degree 5 inch elbow
-connected to a 45 degree 5 inch elbow
-connected to a Aero 5050XL Resonator
-connected to a 5 inch chrome exhaust tip
-several new clamps and a couple of new hangers, which was used to reach the bracket that held the old muffler.

DB before replacement was 93 - 95 db and after there was no change in db but a nicer sounding growl.

Photos of install Exhaust System Replacement - 2003 U320

I will check out performance & MPG increase if any on the way to Benson AZ Bluegrass Festival in a couple of weeks.

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #22 – April 12, 2012, 01:48:27 am

Great pics! The sound clips clearly show that the resonator has a deeper, more mellow tone to it... At least at idle/fast idle. Could you here a difference on the drive home?
Don
P.S. Ty's and I had great fun meeting up with you in person and checking out your beautiful coach... I got a lot of great ideas for mods for ours seeing yours and talking to you. We hope to be able to attend a Foretravel rally of some sort before too long and maybe we will see you there...

Quote from: Barry Beam – April 12, 2012, 01:04:02 am

I had my old muffler removed and replaced with an Aero AT5050XL 5 inch resonator.

I decided this job was better left to someone else who would have the correct pipe and fittings. After deciding the trouble it would be for me to find the exact parts needed to replace the muffler.

I found the Aero AT5050XL on Ebay for $103.00
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & and took it to Freightliner in Ontario CA.

They charged $703 Parts and Labor. Total cost for Replacement $806.00 Took less than 4 hours.

The parts for my install is
- 10 inches of 5 inch stainless flex from turbo
-connected to a 90 degree 5 inch elbow
-connected to a 45 degree 5 inch elbow
-connected to a Aero 5050XL Resonator
-connected to a 5 inch chrome exhaust tip
-several new clamps and a couple of new hangers, which was used to reach the bracket that held the old muffler.

DB before replacement was 93 - 95 db and after there was no change in db but a nicer sounding growl.
Photos of install Exhaust System Replacement - 2003 U320

I will check out performance & MPG increase if any on the way to Benson AZ Bluegrass Festival in a couple of weeks.

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #23 – April 12, 2012, 08:09:07 am

Quote from: acousticart – April 12, 2012, 01:48:27 am

Great pics! The sound clips clearly show that the resonator has a deeper, more mellow tone to it... At least at idle/fast idle. Could you here a difference on the drive home?
Don
P.S. Ty's and I had great fun meeting up with you in person and checking out your beautiful coach... I got a lot of great ideas for mods for ours seeing yours and talking to you. We hope to be able to attend a Foretravel rally of some sort before too long and maybe we will see you there...

It was great meeting you & Tys also and admiring your workmanship.
It was worth the drive down.
If you ever need a job I am sure Wayne Musser at the factory would hire you in an instant.

When I opened the window I could hear a definite mellower tone, otherwise I don't hear anything.
I did not realize how open it was going to be after I took out the muffler.
It will be great to be able to get to the batteries to clean terminals without being a contortionist.

After looking at others who have done this mod, I think this one was probably the easiest to do with the least parts.
Sooo Steve and Michelle you are next. Piece of cake.
As previously said by others "Why did I not do this sooner"

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #24 – April 12, 2012, 08:30:03 am

Barry, I am delighted to see so many starting to realize and enjoy the resonator, I did mine last fall and was immeadiately impressed as first trip out was with the toad, big big improvement on first hill.
Now that I got you into the improved power, next will be the change from the 450 to 500 hp with the 1550 ft lb, that is when the combo of resonator and upgraded hp comes alive, so be warned, like John S has became a beleiver.
Actually it is a non brainer, it works.
Enjoy
Dave M

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