Leak revisited

Topic: Leak revisited (Read 1832 times) previous topic - next topic

Leak revisited

April 14, 2012, 07:34:36 pm

Well, here it is April and I still have the leak. I have replaced the side windows with new Hehr thermopane heavy tint. My last posting was December 4 of 2011 on this subject. I just can't seem to find the source(s). As mentioned earlier I have resealed the roof too and had a new rubber seals from Foretravel for the windshield professionally installed three days ago. It rained today and the leak is back. I am at the end of my rope. I am ready to take the paneling out of the inside and trace it that way. Anyone got any ideas. It is supposed to rain tomorrow and then I will put a third coat on the roof. I think I just might have to put it under a RV port, but then I will not find the leak's source. Thanks for any suggestions.

Curtis

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #1 – April 14, 2012, 08:30:57 pm

Our new to us '94 has has the entire fiberglass roof replaced. We just noticed a small leak from above the Microwave. I carefully inspected the roof at the sink plumbing vent and the power roof vent. Could not see a single flaw in the new sealant anywhere. I called the shop that replaced the roof. They want me to bring it in and they have a way to check for leaks that sounds like what you need. They can pressurize the coach, then they spray soap solution around and bubbles will point out the leak! Sound perfect to me. Maybe you have a RV repair shop near you that can do the same.

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #2 – April 14, 2012, 09:12:03 pm

Get it dried out, then get up on a ladder and pour water over various locations one at a time.

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #3 – April 14, 2012, 10:01:45 pm

Both sound like great ideas. I am drying it out right now with a heat lamp, then I will section it off and start the water hose low and work up the seam outside. I am determined to fix this problem, or else. It is the only place I have a leak. I may need to get kits for the driver side and passenger side windows. Do you know if they make kits to reseal the windows? I will call Mike Grimes at Foretravel. He has one just like mine. Maybe he knows. Love the ideas. Easy and cheap. My style.

Thanks

Curtis

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #4 – April 14, 2012, 10:15:56 pm

Curtis, Have you checked your marking lights or clearance lights for a possible leak? When we first got our coach we traveled to Ohio in a rain storm. I noticed water running down the inside of the windshield and it turned out to be the marking lights had lost the seal. I put silicone around the light and never had another problem with it. Just one more easy thing to check. Good Luck.

Ben Harris
1999 U320 40'

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #5 – April 14, 2012, 10:50:28 pm

Have you made sure your window drains are clear? They can back up enough to drain into the coach.

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Reply #6 – April 14, 2012, 11:09:36 pm

take a few pictures of the outside for roof down to window about 24" either side of leak at floor. Sounds crazy but we may figure out something from them.
John

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Reply #7 – April 14, 2012, 11:34:08 pm

I will try to get some pics tomorrow. Thanks.

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #8 – April 14, 2012, 11:40:48 pm

Ben and Dave,

Will check all this in the morning. The new windows on the sides behind the drivers and passenger seats are brand new, so not blocked. I emailed Mike Grimes at Foretravel if he knows the side windows, next to the front windshields, their model numbers, who makes them, and if they make a reseal kit for them. Thanks everyone for your help. This is great information.

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #9 – April 15, 2012, 12:37:29 am

Hi Curtis,
The co-pilot window in my GV leaked when I bought it. The factory removed, resealed, and replaced the window 5 times (yes, really). When they went to do it again, I had them hold off and went in and got Brad Laidler to come out and look at it. He listened to me, then he listened to the tech. He thought a couple of minutes, then told the tech to remove the awning rail on the passenger side, and reseal it. Sure enough, when they removed it, there was long gaps where there was no sealant, plus, lots of the screws hadn't been sealed either. The water was getting in between the rail and the coach body, running down to the unsealed screws, where it was entering the coach. Then it travel down the inside of the wall to the front window, where it entered into the house proper. All of the window sealing that was being done was at the exterior wall. The water entered where the inner frame of the window was at the wall area. The water would run along the wall, hit the inner window frame, and run down to the floor. Resealed awning rail and screws, and voila, no more leak, ever.

Just thought,
Good luck,
LynnD, '01 GV

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #10 – April 15, 2012, 07:19:52 am

Define the awning rail. The coiled up section that runs the full length of the GV or the rail that is in the end of the "tube" and then fastens at just above the fender of the co-pilot side? Thanks, this has been awesome for ideas. As they keep coming in and I fix, I am sure to find it and do some preventative maintenance for later.

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #11 – April 15, 2012, 09:00:53 am

The rail is attatched to the motorhome and the awning slides into this piece of aluminum that is about 1 1/2 inches has a channel and is attatched with screws about every 6 inches. this is at the top where the metal cover for the awning slides into

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #12 – April 15, 2012, 09:27:04 am

Sounds like the standard drip rail that runs front to back on both sides.

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #13 – April 15, 2012, 11:33:54 am

I think the patio awning is attached either with a rail and screws as described above or if it is a power awning like the Girard with brackets that are through bolted to backing plates.
Attached images may help.

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #14 – April 15, 2012, 11:51:05 am

I agree with the possible awning top rail as being the probabvle culprit. I was waiting for some pics to decide if that was it. I have done a few leak repairs on trailers/motorhomes etc with the same problem and I am sure that this is another one. It seems to me that most times when the awning is added no one pays really too much concern about that area. To test if it is the problem ( as taking the metal strip off can be a task for some, I would first dry it off properly then put a bead of Polyurethane caulk along the top part AND take all the screws out that hold it (one at a time) and pump a bit of the same caulking into the screw hole then replace the screw. If you find a screw that is rusted out then that more than likely is the answer. If this test does stop the leak then when the weather is hot and sunny you remove the whole thing and caulk behind the strip and redo the screws (best use stainless steel ones and 1/4" longer than originals). Do not use silicone anywhere on a motorhome or trailer, allways use a good polyurethane.Also seal around the top and sides of all awning brackets were they attatch to body, do not caulk at the bottom.
John H

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #15 – April 15, 2012, 12:39:11 pm

Well folks, I took LynnD's advice. (and others too) and I pulled all the metal trips that the awning attaches to off. I took all the old caulking off and replaced it with new. Then I replaced the #8-1-1/4" with #10 1-1/2". A little scary because it was windy here in Indiana, but I had it secured. Tomorrow I will look for the weep holes in the two side aluminum frame windows. I did notice a rivet missing at the top of the co-pilot window. Replaced that. Today's rain missed us and went north. That was good. I will check the lights tomorrow and caulk them too. I have a mid-term today so I will be studying the rest of the day. Thank you everyone for the very helpful responses. TA TA for now.

Curtis

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #16 – April 16, 2012, 09:34:47 am

John - inquiring minds want to know, why not silicone?

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #17 – April 16, 2012, 09:55:30 am

I would like to know too Gayland. I used silicone. Well, last night it rained and I went into the GV and dry as a desert bone. We will still wait though. I did see in the bottom trough of the window, right next to the co-pilot's seat (not behind it) water in the bottom. I am still waiting on an answer from Mike Grimes from Foretravel for the make, model number, and if they make reseal kits for these windows. Any help here? Also, does anyone know specifically where the outlet's source power is that is mounted in the "little" desk behind the co-pilot's seat? The wire heads under the co-pilot's seat, but from there it is a tough "hunt". It is dead and was hoping to shorten my "hunitin" time for it. Thanks you are all great!!

Curtis

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #18 – April 16, 2012, 10:43:45 am

Quote from: sonshineclg – April 15, 2012, 07:19:52 am

Define the awning rail. The coiled up section that runs the full length of the GV or the rail that is in the end of the "tube" and then fastens at just above the fender of the co-pilot side? Thanks, this has been awesome for ideas. As they keep coming in and I fix, I am sure to find it and do some preventative maintenance for later.

This answere has got my leak figured out. The awning rail seal and screws!.... Thanks

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #19 – April 16, 2012, 11:20:43 am

Steve, aka El_Dorado,

That is great to hear. I am still trying to find if they have rebuild or reseal kits for the side windows. I need to get them resealed without taking them out. That would mean removing the whole windshield again. I don't think so. I also had a problem with front tv not having power and the receptacle behind the co-pilot seat being dead. With the help of everyone here I traced it quickly to the GFI in the bathroom won't reset. I will test the GFI by getting a new one and installing it. If the new one trips, then I got some REEEEEAAAAALLLL troubleshootin' problems. In my 26 years as an electrician I have only seen one of these babies go bad and that was from bad contacts inside the switch. Of course I can't get to these to clean them up without destroying the receptacle. I bypassed the receptacle temporarily to be sure it was the receptacle. The breaker did not trip, but I do not want to rely on the breaker, when the GFI will make me 100% sure. I have seen house fires where the breaker did not blow and it was due to a short in the wiring. The GFI is sure of good wiring on all three legs. If not. . POW! I am a "crazy' believer in GFIs and their prices are worth the insurance of my life and those I love. Again, I am glad this helped. As my sons tell me about other things, ForeForum Rocks! Later and Thanks all!

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #20 – April 16, 2012, 11:25:04 am

FWIW, I was an avid boater, and this is what I was told.
Silicone is good but not as long lasting as is polyurethane. There is a product called Boat life (or boatlife) that is excellent for sealing leaks for boats (and FT). A general rule is that if you want to remove something later or feel you would use silicone, very infrequent removal use polyurethane caulk, and if you think you will not remove then use 3m 5200 caulk. My belief would be use silicone for the new led clearance lights (if that were the case) and for leaks either 5200 or polyurethane.
As may be apparent, the less likely to remove the more tight the bond, and harder and hardest to remove the caulking. Thus polyurethane would be good in a leak, as we don't want it coming off anytime soon.

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #21 – April 16, 2012, 11:44:49 am

Steve,

When you replace the screws use stainless steel, but also a high grade. Many that you find at Lowe's, Grainger, Menards, and Home Depot are good, but they tend to be soft. Try to get screws near 304 grade. There are different grades of stainless steel too (approx. 150 grades). Pay extra and never revisit the problem again. Do it right or get out of the fight, my father always told me about the work we do. Hope this helps too. Mr. Scruggs thanks for the info. I will mark that one down. I am into glues that last until I am 200.

Curtis

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #22 – April 16, 2012, 12:41:04 pm

Well first I am not a tech on caulks but have learnt over many years doing bath and kitchen reno's that Silicone is good for the short time but it can come seperated from the 2 componants it is trying to hold together and you will not know it till it is too late. It is virtually impossible to get silicone caulk to stay bonded for a long time, and remember all the extremes of weather etc we put our coaches thru'. Polyurethanes stay slightly soft and seem to want to re-attach itself for a long time, is great for high temps and low. 3M 54 is a good one as is Locktite.
John H

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #23 – April 16, 2012, 03:54:57 pm

Generally, I rate the quality of stainless by a simple method, if it sticks to a magnet= low quality, if not= better quality. I did use silicone and feel it will work because I injected in to the screw holes, then put the original screw back in. Not much chance for the silicone to fail. I was out of polyurethane sealant, or would have used that, it is much better stuff. I will do all the rest of the exterior screws that penetrate the shell today.......
Steve

Re: Leak revisited

Reply #24 – April 17, 2012, 06:59:27 pm

Quote from: Gayland Baasch – April 16, 2012, 09:34:47 am

John - inquiring minds want to know, why not silicone?

Gayland, urethane has much better adhesion to most surfaces and is therefore a better choice for waterproofing. Urethane caulk is basically is a combination of caulk and adhesive. Just make sure that the surfaces being caulked are clean and oil free and it will last for years. Quality urethane, when compared to silicone, is typically more UV resistant, has better tensile strength and better elongation. As an example, all of the old white urethane caulk used on the original build of my 93 coach is still in great shape. Urethane is also harder to find but Dicor and Sika urethane caulk seem to be readily available at camping supply stores and home/hardware stores.

There are basically two kinds of urethane caulk: high modulus, non-sag caulk for vertical application and low modulus or self leveling for horizontal application. If you can only get one, get the high mod. It can be used either way.

I do not recommend Acrylic or Acrylic-Silicone under any circumstances.

Just the ramblings of an of Goo Guy!!!

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