Frustrated FT wannabe...

Topic: Frustrated FT wannabe... (Read 1857 times) previous topic - next topic

Frustrated FT wannabe...

May 01, 2012, 06:23:33 pm

May I vent?
As a prospective FT buyer I am frustrated at the lack of information given on the units currently for sale at MOT. In my opinion, if I had a $40K-$350K MH for sale on either of these sites I would expect more information be given than what is now presented.

Why can't:
1. The floor plan be given? If a custom build-let it be known.
2. All upgrades on the unit be listed ie. Aqua hot, entry steps, audio/video, flooring, paint, etc
3. The virtual tour option work?
4. Is it too much to ask for pictures for each unit? Currently 5 out of 22 have nothing.

Seems to me that the attitude is "they'll sell on their own merit". However, if I was to pony up for the % paid on a consignment sale, I'd expect more in the way my FT was being marketed.

Disclaimer - as I've come from a real estate background where marketing a home/business is paramount to success, perhaps I'm more cognisant of this than the normal consumer.

Thanks for listening

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #1 – May 01, 2012, 07:26:27 pm

I have to agree. The marketing skills of both MOT and FOT are lacking considering the price of their products. I also don't think FOT realizes how put off potential buyers are by the lack of interest when they visit the Foretravel facility. Granted, I don't want to feel pressured by the sales staff but I do want to be acknowledged when I am looking at new or used coach on the Foretravel lot.

Every current coach owner is a potential future buyer when they visit Foretravel for service. Just stopping by and chatting with the current coach owners in the parking lot and customer lounge would help develop relationships that could result in future sales. Just a hello and friendly Texas Howdy would go a long way to keep customers coming back to Foretravel. There is something wrong when the service staff in the shop is more friendly and customer conscious than the sales staff. IMHO

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #2 – May 01, 2012, 09:29:24 pm

We're putting together our summer travel plans now, and a tour of the Foretravel factory is on the agenda. While we're not in the market right now, we will be in less than two years. It will be interesting to see how we are treated. Yes, we're also going to visit MOT.

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #3 – May 01, 2012, 09:55:04 pm

Cm told me everyone must be allowed the opportunity to own a Foretravel. My average customer in the 80's took 21 months....al and Evelyn Ellsworth took 9 years.

Bob

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #4 – May 01, 2012, 11:12:31 pm

I worked with MOT in the search for my coach and have a different take. I contacted Mel Cordray a salesman, explained exactly what we wanted and his search began. When he found a coach that he thought may be a good fit for us we were contacted right away with the details and a few cell phone pics. If we were interested we got more info right away. Irregardless, the coach was posted on their website with few details and no pics right away, I guess to determine if there was any other interest besides us. Mel worked with us for over a year searching. We were kind of picky.

Turns out we ended up finding the one we wanted at FOT (luck of the trade-in). But as far as I could tell at MOT the ones that never got pics and details posted on the web were ones that sold relatively quickly. If they did not, then MOT posted pics and info. Those pics and info were not complete but just to give the perspective buyer a flavor. My experience was that MOT will provide all the info/pics you need - just establish a relationship and they will go to work for you.

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #5 – May 01, 2012, 11:16:56 pm

My only interaction with the sales dept at Foretravel was in 2003 or 2004 when I first seriously studied Foretravels. I remember the salesman name was Jimmie Bergman. He rolled out the red carpet for my wife and me, and gave us the full tour of the factory with several coaches in the build process, explained how the chassis was completely constructed on-site, showed the paint shop, the woodworks, and basically showed as much of the process as he could. We were really impressed with the quality of the workmanship, and with the treatment we received from Jimmie Bergman. That visit reinforced my decision that if I ever owned a motorhome, it would be a Foretravel.

Since I later bought my previously-owned Foretravel from an individual I naturally haven't dealt with any salespeople. However, the service departments at both FOT and MOT have been superb.

Glen

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #6 – May 01, 2012, 11:32:27 pm

We too have thought the same about the lack of info on the listing posted about the coaches. As we have learned more in the last year as a new owner of our classic, we find we need and want more info. I have to cross reference a coach, model and year with Barry Beam's linked site, and then still know that maybe each and every Foretravel was special, and maybe a custom build. No where do we find enough info.

I have posted more photos and info on things I have sold on Craigslist, such as toy box haulers and motorcycles. I have gotten calls from people who have called simply to say that they loved the ad, and wished me luck with the sale.

We have also met and will try to buy from Mel Cordray at MOT. He has been very helpful on our two visits, and with some phone calls and e-mails to keep us up to date on incoming coaches. I hope he can find you your next coach.

That said, I watch a couple of company sites and see many with better marketing that could be used as a higher standard for MOT, and FOT.

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #7 – May 02, 2012, 12:11:01 am

David and Bill, let me see if I can help. I have bought three motorhomes from MOT and looked at FOT too, been treated nicely by each. I am a fairly technical person though not at all about RVs. We had two motorhomes (a C and DP) only brief times before settling in on what we have now and have just taken our first trip in it. So somewhat new to these in time but I have spent lots of time learning.

My interpretation is that some units come in at least to MOT and do not hit the net for some time, maybe a month, while they are in the line for service to be put on the market. That is MY interpretation, MOT may not agree. I would think about the same at FOT

There is another avenue for detail. MOT sent me to FOT with the build number of the coach we bought. I got a detailed print-out of all the custom things that the original buyer had ordered. And there were a bunch. That list explains some things. That led me to having David Whitehead modify a cabinet to my needs versus the original owner.

Just call me if I can help. I have run errands for folks, taken pictures, explained what I have seen. I do not though do inspections, I am more into the floor plan (that is critical to you), appearance items, features. There are several fellows that will help if you want technical condition reports. Drop me a private message for phone numbers if you need any help that I might be able to give you. Mike

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #8 – May 02, 2012, 05:57:19 am

I can say that many coaches do not even hit the website before they are sold. In fact my coach now fits that description. I told them at MOT what I wanted and they had a trade coming in and I put down a deposit and drove down to see it. I know that happens at FOT too. It is not an excuse for either on their website but that is a common occurrence. I have purchased one of my coaches from MOT and one from FOT so I have used them equally. I will say in the last couple years that FOT service department has improved a lot.

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #9 – May 02, 2012, 08:36:07 am

We have a coach currently on consignment at MoT, and while we have given them a list of all of the updated features, they have not chosen to put that information on the website. However, I remember when we bought the coach from them in 2009, they did have lots of information listed on the website about the upgrades. In fact, that was one of the reasons we chose to drive to Nac to look at it.

I'm not sure this marketing strategy is working since we know that our '96 has a lot of upgrades, but they are not listed on the website.

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #10 – May 02, 2012, 09:38:06 am

I agree with just about all of the info above. When you walk into MOT (granted, it is a smaller area in the entry) you are almost always spotted immediately and greeted by someone who asks how they can assist you. The coaches on the lot are usually unlocked during the day, and you will be seen poking your nose in them and someone will come out to chat about the merits. At FOT everyone (with one notable exception) is very nice, but I have sometimes been ignored even by the receptionist, who is concealed behind the high walls of her fortress. The sales cubicles are often unoccupied ... there should be one guy around that the receptionist can call ... and to be fair, she sometimes will ask. Tyle Fore has been very friendly, asked about our level of interest and tells us to look for him if we have any question to ask and otherwise just enjoy. "He Who Shall Remain Nameless" wants to know if you are "a buyer, or just kicking the tires". I think that FOT puts a better list of upgrades and equipment in the website description. I may be mistaken, but I think MOT got rid of their last Internet Sales guy and the new one may need to be told that they are cutting corners. I think the Ashlocks should let MOT know (in the gentlest of language) that their coach can be marketed more skillfully! There is no substitute for actually climbing aboard ... but they have to get you on the lot, and sometimes get you there 2 or 3 times!

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #11 – May 02, 2012, 12:41:44 pm

My one time at MOT was when I purchased Carol's coach. It was not put on the web or anything as it was a private sale. I am from the "back shop" world and will always talk with the guys and gals back there as we speak the same language. Service people at MOT are great. Sales people are so very different and sometimes think they know best and sometimes do. But they should listen to what the customer wants.

A friend of mine - who knows nothing about the car business - but who is a good businessman (read multimillionaire) got a car dealership when a loan to a friend was not repaid. I looked at it with him and while talking with the salesmen he told them you never know how many people you turn off by the way you do business, attitude is everything. All but one were gone in a few weeks and he trained new people in his way of thinking from the CUSTOMER point of view. Now he has yet another thriving operation.

In my small business we do our best to keep the customer happy and give them a little more than they expect. This then becomes recommendations to others and repeat business.

Perhaps MOT needs to do something companies rarely do and look at their operation as a customer. Go outside and look in for a change. They have a good operation it just could be better.

Keith

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #12 – May 02, 2012, 04:37:46 pm

You just never know who's looking. A badly dressed lady walked into my wife's office one day and wanted to look at a $500k house. She cheerfully finished her showing and the lady took out her checkbook and wrote a check for the house. Turned out she had just won the FL lotto. Ya never know... treat everyone like a buyer!

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #13 – May 02, 2012, 05:00:48 pm

When I was looking for my first coach, nobody would show me any. They left them locked up in places or showed me different ones. In fact Jack in Kodak told me with disdain to buy used. Buddy Gregg would not even show me a coach. Well, I drove to Nac and Ron Augastat was the only one there. He showed us all the coaches and answered our questions. I bought a slightly used 34 foot 270 since my driveway at the time was only 35 foot long. Well, buying used was a good thing as it was much cheaper for a great coach and I took that too heart still. But I did go back to Buddy Gregg in my Foretravel Jacket and they fell over themselves opening the coaches. Ha... I was only 39 years old at the time.

You can never tell when someone walks in and you have to treat everyone with respect.

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #14 – May 02, 2012, 05:19:50 pm

Lots of "don't judge a book by its cover".

I have one of my very own. A couple of summers during college I would hitchhike to NY and fly Icelandic to Europe. Hitchhike around Europe-- paying for it by buying VW buses in Amsterdam and selling to the American kids (like me) coming over for the summer.

My parents asked that I pick up a Mercedes (U.S. spec) in Sindelfingen at the factory and drive it to the port for them.

So, they wired me the money. I got it in cash and rode my bike from the UT campus to the MB dealer up on Airport. Ya, cutoffs, T shirt and long hair-- you get the picture. Remember this is 1970.

Big surprise-- no one would wait on me. I finally asked to see the General Manager. He came out to the showroom and in front of all the salesmen who were standing around, asked if he could help me. I told him that I wanted to buy an MB European delivery and handed him the order codes. His F&I guy was standing there and kind of flippantly asked "and how are you going to pay for it"? Just reached into my back pocket and pulled out $13,200 in $100 bills.

Amos Rhea, General Manager at the time told that story a decade later to a group of automobile dealers at a conference I was attending (I was General Manager of David McDavid Nissan in Houston at the time).

Oh, and Amos called for their Limo (a Mercedes 600) to take me (bike in trunk) anywhere I wanted to go. I didn't live that far away, so had the Limo take me all the way to the south side of Austin to Dianne's apartment (ya we were dating then).

Brett

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #15 – May 02, 2012, 05:48:50 pm

Ron worked at Lazydays in FL when I met him in '05. Once he found out I was interested in Foretravels he was transformed from a salesman to an aficionado... He pointed me to MOT and David R. Within 6 weeks I was an owner...

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #16 – May 02, 2012, 05:52:27 pm

Since I started this post, I'd like to make clear that I haven't had any dealings with either FOT or MOT. So I cannot address how they treat customers.

My only point was this, IMHO I think they are doing customers a disservice by not marketing the consignment coaches to the best of their ability. The infrastructure seems to be in place, but for whatever reason it is not being utilized.

FOT & MOT have web sites which (for better or worse) is the face of their company for consumers such as Jan & I. We are 1,700 miles away. When we decide to visit both of these fine businesses it will be because we saw a FT on their site which we have an interest in.

We truly hope everyone here and at FOT & MOT understands this thread is 'constructive criticism'....with the hope of businesses that mirror the quality of the product.

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #17 – May 02, 2012, 06:18:56 pm

Quote from: bill velting – May 02, 2012, 05:52:27 pm

FOT & MOT have web sites which (for better or worse) is the face of their company for consumers such as Jan & I. We are 1,700 miles away. When we decide to visit both of these fine businesses it will be because we saw a FT on their site which we have an interest in.

Bill,

In your search and research, you have plugged into an excellent resource in this forum. We found our coach on Craigslist as a result of a post on this list. We sold our old SOB (Some Other Brand) coach via consignment at MOT. They sold it in about a week and it was never listed.

When you have a idea of what you are looking for, contact the sales folk at MOT, FOT, and Encore. Let them know your interests. I expect they will contact you and provide more of the details you seek.

Your comments may elicit some improvements in the actions and procedures at the shops in NAC.

Best wishes for a successful search.

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #18 – May 02, 2012, 06:29:55 pm

You often hear people say that upgrades don't matter when it comes to selling your coach because NADA pricing never takes them into account. But I don't believe it for a minute. It might not make a big difference in pricing but it makes a huge difference in attracting buyers. Most RVers who are buying Foretravel coaches have been around the block; if not in FT coaches then in SOBs and even SOTs (Some Other Types). They understand that many - if not most - owners upgrade their units and that these upgrades make their motor homes faster or more comfortable or safer or more fuel efficient and this stuff matters to buyers more now than ever before.

Web sites are the cheapest things to add data to. Just a link labeled "upgrades to this coach over stock" and all you'd need is to have someone key it all in once and it's available to the world immediately.

And prospective sellers will notice. After all, if selling used coaches is your business then attracting sellers is at least as important as attracting buyers.

Craig

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #19 – May 02, 2012, 06:48:59 pm

Quote from: Dave Head – May 02, 2012, 05:48:50 pm

Ron worked at Lazydays in FL when I met him in '05. Once he found out I was interested in Foretravels he was transformed from a salesman to an aficionado... He pointed me to MOT and David R. Within 6 weeks I was an owner...

Yup...Ron Augustadt is a great salesman. I met him at the San Antonio, FL Foretravel dealership in April 2003 (was still open then). He showed me and taught me so much. He also pointed me to the Foretravel Tennessee location in Kodak where I bought "Forrest" as it was much nearer to Cincinnati and had the coach that was a very good prospect for Beth and I.

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #20 – May 02, 2012, 10:09:21 pm

Quote from: bill velting – May 02, 2012, 05:52:27 pm

FOT & MOT have web sites which (for better or worse) is the face of their company for consumers such as Jan & I. We are 1,700 miles away. When we decide to visit both of these fine businesses it will be because we saw a FT on their site which we have an interest in.

We truly hope everyone here and at FOT & MOT understands this thread is 'constructive criticism'....with the hope of businesses that mirror the quality of the product.

Bill,

I understand your intent, and I think this thread is a great opportunity to show the customer view and make suggestions as to what you would like to see - what would get you to make the trip to Nac. It's a win for both sides - you get the info you want, the selling dealerships know what to focus on to get you in the door.

My website pet peeve is coaches with "Sold" on their ads when the coach was sold months ago. Having that for a month or two is fine, in case someone is checking on the availability of a particular coach they had previously seen, but as a buyer I wouldn't care what had sold 6 months ago (and I get tired of seeing it month after month when I view the website).

Michelle

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #21 – May 03, 2012, 12:03:16 am

Quote from: Steve & Michelle – May 02, 2012, 10:09:21 pm

My website pet peeve is coaches with "Sold" on their ads when the coach was sold months ago. Having that for a month or two is fine, in case someone is checking on the availability of a particular coach they had previously seen, but as a buyer I wouldn't care what had sold 6 months ago (and I get tired of seeing it month after month when I view the website).

I agree with Michelle about lack of utility (for prospective buyers, that is) of "sold" coaches hanging around for months on end. Although, having said that, it IS fun when the new owner joins ForeForums to be able to go back and "tour" the coach they purchased!

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #22 – May 03, 2012, 08:18:30 am

My two cents;
I suspect that most dealers have no idea what UPGRADES there are in any MH. MOT and FOT may be an exception but they probably shy away from listing upgrades in sales ads because they will either miss something or get it wrong. I recall Dave H's situation where a RETARDER was listed and it turned out to be an EXHAUST BRAKE ( hope I'm right Dave ).
I also suspect that most buyers ( with a lot of exceptions on this forum ) would take a salesmans word for an upgrade and do not really do a good inspection to confirm it. My experience ( and I am guilty to ) is that a buyer gets the FEVER for a coach and at that point goes brain dead , only reviving when he gets home and RTFM.
I would much rather depend on the word of an impartial inspector as to what the features are in a MH , new or used, than the word of even the most honest salesman. And you always have to keep in mind that the ad for a MH is a come one designed to get you on the lot, a good salesman can get his hooks in you but he has to have you in arms reach to do it.
Yeah I know I am a cynic.

Gary B

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #23 – May 03, 2012, 08:42:09 am

Quote from: bill velting – May 02, 2012, 05:52:27 pm

Since I started this post, I'd like to make clear that I haven't had any dealings with either FOT or MOT. So I cannot address how they treat customers.

My only point was this, IMHO I think they are doing customers a disservice by not marketing the consignment coaches to the best of their ability. The infrastructure seems to be in place, but for whatever reason it is not being utilized.

FOT & MOT have web sites which (for better or worse) is the face of their company for consumers such as Jan & I. We are 1,700 miles away. When we decide to visit both of these fine businesses it will be because we saw a FT on their site which we have an interest in.

We truly hope everyone here and at FOT & MOT understands this thread is 'constructive criticism'....with the hope of businesses that mirror the quality of the product.

I too appreciate you starting this thread and hope that both FOT and MOT number one read it and that they understand that we present these thoughts as CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Most, if not all of us want both companies to be successful. It definitely is in our best interest that the Foretravel brand is presented in the best way possible. We are truly concerned when we see anything being done to diminish the value of the brand. The Foretravel value, reliability and quality is unparalleled, sales and marketing of the brand should be commensurate.

Re: Frustrated FT wannabe...

Reply #24 – May 03, 2012, 09:10:34 am

There IS some justification for leaving sold coaches on the website with sold marked.

It is a form of advertising for coaches to be LISTED with them.

But, an easy solution that will allow prospective sellers to see how effective a dealership is in selling units similar to theirs is to move SOLD units to another page on their website-- something like "Sold in last 12 months". A rolling 12 month window of what they have sold would be very effective, yet not clutter the list of FOR SALE coaches. Were it me, I would include consignment and trades in the list, as the source of the coach is not as important to the prospective seller as the fact that they found a buyer for it.

Brett

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