Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

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Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

May 08, 2012, 06:39:11 pm

OK, I'm still clueless! original question was from a Ft owner stating "I have a crack"!

Can we get back to that?

I have looked at a number of 02 and 03's and "sorry to say" have again been disappointed by the lack of honesty from sellers and will NOT go there again unless some real honest info arises.

Drove back home to view a Ft at Coachworks/fl. listed on the internet and dang!!! "Looks like cracks and even 'rivet's or something' under uncracked but distorted areas."

Can we get to the truth?

thanks, ron

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #1 – May 08, 2012, 07:00:09 pm

I don't know what you are asking for, but I can tell you this much, they do not all have cracks. Mine is a late 2003 with seamless endcaps and no cracks.

Tom

Quote from: MemoryRoads – May 08, 2012, 06:39:11 pm

OK, I'm still clueless! original question was from a Ft owner stating "I have a crack"!

Can we get back to that?

I have looked at a number of 02 and 03's and "sorry to say" have again been disappointed by the lack of honesty from sellers and will NOT go there again unless some real honest info arises.

Drove back home to view a Ft at Coachworks/fl. listed on the internet and dang!!! "Looks like cracks and even 'rivet's or something' under uncracked but distorted areas."

Can we get to the truth?

thanks, ron

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #2 – May 08, 2012, 07:41:55 pm

Weather, how your RV is stored, how it's driven, age, all have an effect on vehicles I would say. Lot's of twisting and torquing on a large RV. Some will crack... some won't. My ex-SOB now has a 12" fiberglass crack under the bedroom slide and this was found AFTER the "sagging wet bay" issues were fixed. THAT took 3 months. They guy who bought my SOB parks next to me at the storage place!

Who knew?

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #3 – May 08, 2012, 07:45:09 pm

Tom, My question was "what fillers were used/or I guess anything else to solve the original surface cracking issue".
things 'can be fixed' but how about solid answers to the question from the forum or the FT factory?

the bad rap on 02 and some 03's will not die until the answers have been met and any owner of one will continue to get grilled by others.

Heres the link
2003 Foretravel U295, Clearwater FL - 101279811 - RVTraderonline.com;

Mark Harvey at FT gave me an ok on ONE # I asked about but I guess I should have asked what number series are a problem or not.
this question/answer should be known by all, is it?

the coach just looked at as pristine, took a few seconds outside to detect the cracking issue.
see attached. sorry but I might have to rotate a few photos/could not see them well. ron

OK got another post came in................."I'm not questioning "the quality or SOB's" can we stick to my question?

photo 37 rivet's under paint, High up crack'please rotate', next 2, ovious crack.

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #4 – May 08, 2012, 09:26:15 pm

Quote from: MemoryRoads – May 08, 2012, 07:45:09 pm

Tom, My question was "what fillers were used/or I guess anything else to solve the original surface cracking issue".
things 'can be fixed' but how about solid answers to the question from the forum or the FT factory?

Ron,

This forum is not affiliated in any way with FT. It is a collection of folks with an interest in Foretravel motorhomes.

Michelle

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #5 – May 09, 2012, 01:43:55 am

Ron, this may not be direct to your quest, but..... 2002's were said prone to the end cap problems as were some of the early 2003's. The factory did warranty work on those in a responsible manner and apparently to their financial detriment. Whether that repair attitude can carryover to current and subsequent owners I do not know but it did not to an 03 that I looked at at FOT. It had cracks in the roof area on all four corners. They quoted me $6,300 to repair.

What does repair mean? I learned there is what I will label a repair that is more temporary and somewhat cosmetic I guess. That is the $6,000 job. That seems borne out by other quotes I have heard to that level of work, even including some cracks that went on down the front cap. Other years are not immune though. I saw a similar crack on an 07 Nimbus.

Xtreme told me that the repair they use is around $15k for the rear end cap. They take the entire cap off of the rear, build in some sheet metal or such work and reassemble the end cap. That, I gather, is a permanent fix. Perhaps that is what FOT was doing back in the warranty work. It could explain their costs back in the 2003 timeframe and why those that were repaired then seem trouble free now. I am not sure.

As for the less expensive fix, I understand that the filler technique is pretty good, looks good. It just may reappear in a half dozen years.

This was just information gathered in my looking for coaches. In that regard, I was similarly told that during the 2004 and 2005 years, or some parts of those, experimental fiberglass uses gave problems to a few coaches.

I would buy any of those years but I would pay close attention to those areas, and factor in the cost if I saw a problem. I am not sure that I can tell you the difference in a 2002 and 2003, but there seem many 2003s out there and they seem among the prettiest coaches FT made. My subjective opinion of course but I do like them.

I hope this helps just a little. Cheers...... Mike

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #6 – May 11, 2012, 12:13:45 am

As I started this one , I'll weigh in. I'm still waiting for my last quote which is from FT. The means of fixing the problem vary from place to place. Xtreme seems to have the most comprehensive with steel plates to stablize everything to head off future problems, while another just fills and drills the crack. Just covering the crack with a trim piece was mentioned by someone.

As far as not buying a coach with a potential problem, I have no answer. I saw several '02 and '03 coaches with cracks in my search but they were not end caps-the cracks normally progressing from an opening such as the bottom of the slide or coming off of the refer panel. I also say a couple of Country Coaches with bad crack problems.. My coach had 15k miles in 2010 when I bought it and showed no sign of a problem. Maybe it hadn't been driven enough to induce the problem. Pays your money, takes your chances!
Good Luck!

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #7 – May 11, 2012, 08:20:03 pm

To all:
I must apologize "to this forum", for any delayes in my responses......... to my thoughts a few days ago that.... 'to me' were pushing me to levels of frustration, NOT being able to 'comfortably' judge the information that I felt was solid and not fluff or just form of cr__.

The Ft forum has been excellent! but not perfect (excuse me)and, well forgive me too but I'm looking for answers.............. yes, I will! and I hope this is good for many that are within your group or. OR, those you wonder about that are OUT THERE but Never Join in............. Do you want them in???............ or??

MICHEAL/JACKIE........ Well, we think you are a wonderful couple that has put your names here on this forum for the Best........the BEST, that one can do for another. I truly believe you /for what ever/EVER reason there could be...that YOU, are contributing to this forum and to me personally(than/you for your time efforts etc.)with good intentions.....................
Do I believe all you say? NO! not your problem, mine!
you're a good guy but between sorry to say, business issues.

Please do not be offended by me saying, you are great, but
"I'm still sceptical"

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #8 – May 11, 2012, 08:35:37 pm

Quote from: MemoryRoads – May 11, 2012, 08:20:03 pm

To all:
I must apologize "to this forum", for any delayes in my responses......... to my thoughts a few days ago that.... 'to me' were pushing me to levels of frustration, NOT being able to 'comfortably' judge the information that I felt was solid and not fluff or just form of cr__.

The Ft forum has been excellent! but not perfect (excuse me)and, well forgive me too but I'm looking for answers.............. yes, I will! and I hope this is good for many that are within your group or. OR, those you wonder about that are OUT THERE but Never Join in............. Do you want them in???............ or??

MICHEAL/JACKIE........ Well, we think you are a wonderful couple that has put your names here on this forum for the Best........the BEST, that one can do for another. I truly believe you /for what ever/EVER reason there could be...that YOU, are contributing to this forum and to me personally(than/you for your time efforts etc.)with good intentions.....................
Do I believe all you say? NO! not your problem, mine!
you're a good guy but between sorry to say, business issues.

Please do not be offended by me saying, you are great, but
"I'm still sceptical"

Ron,
The folks on this forum who answer a post will always, without exception, give you the best he/she's got to offer. You can take that to the bank. If someone does not post on a topic it's usually because there is nothing of value they can post, or the member is simply not available. To be sure, we're partial to Foretravels. That's why we are here...to help you and anyone else who asks.
Peter

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #9 – May 11, 2012, 08:52:56 pm

Peter, Spot on!

I came here for truth and expect it. have found many offering(many in PM's) and ...some holding back- and that is OK.
-"I think"/
I hope... truth rises... more offer... and those holding back for 'whatever reason' opens their bin of knowledge to those of us................................
who, not forgetting "are picking up the check for the dreams of those that preceded us." and well, also have some dreams to be hopefully lived.
ron

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #10 – May 11, 2012, 08:55:42 pm

Well I hope I do not get in trouble for my next comments as this was not my intention.

Maybe it is because I am British and living in Canada, I do not know, but this discussion is to me abroken up dialogue of this and that , that frankly does not make sense to me!! Some of the comments do not make sense ??

This Forum,as Michelle has stated is made up of nice people who try their darndess to help someone else fix a problem that maybe they themselves have had, or, think they may know the answer too, and at the same time save someone either a trip to "holyland (Nacadoches) or their local bodyshop/ repair shop, and a few 'bucks too. I personally do not think anyone is trying to cover up an issue that seems to have happened to a series of coaches in a given year or two. Most vehicles are the mixing of millions of ideas by a few and now and again have issues, hence racalls as we all know.

We, all of us, have chosen this make of Motorhome because we "have seen the rest, and want the best" and guess what, these too have some issues!! That said, we lean on each other to get them fixed "cause we aint buying the "other one"!!

I can tell you that these coaches are good and believe me I have done enough major rebuilding of RVs (mHomes/trailers/campers) to know what I say, and it is not my business, I just do it for fun. The old adage "buyer be aware" is still relevant, but when you have 1800 people who join an online web page to help someone they do not know, it HAS to mean something!!

My 2 cents worth-sorry.(it seems while I wrote this 2 other postings came in so hope mine does not clash!)

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #11 – May 11, 2012, 09:23:39 pm

John, I see no problem with your input and hope no other will ever!
I must intercede now tho to get back to 'my' question, and would LOVE FULL disclosure.................... total info on "what is necessary to fix the 2002-2003 crack problem that almost put Ft out of business....................!!

WHY cannot I get a solid answer?

John, I have no problems with this net, I have no problems with Michelles answer. I have no and have never had any thoughts that FT and this net is in collusion, so...

can I just ask for solid info on the "crack issue" and get solid answers that I and others can record, live with and then digest at our desk at night or go to our repair shops with and then talk turkey?

ron

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #12 – May 11, 2012, 11:30:16 pm

Ron,

Since I live in Nacogdoches and have had a Foretravel ('92 U-280) for 9 years, I have a bit of what some people call "institutional memory" that is relevant to this discussion.

First, the near demise of Foretravel was based upon many poor business decisions (not just the end cap issue), by the children of C.M. Fore, who himself relinquished operational control in the late nineties.

One of those decisions involved changing the end caps in the Unicoaches (bus style) from having "seams" to a "seamless" appearance. The individual in charge of the fiberglass shop and the person in charge of the paint shop both predicted that there would be fiberglass problems if management pursued this design change without significant engineering alterations. Management decided to forge ahead, so the fiberglass manager quit Foretravel over this issue and not long afterwards so did the paint foreman.

As was predicted, coaches began to come in with end cap separation issues and FT did fix those that came in initially. However the fix was costly, at a time when the company could barely meet its payroll and pay its vendors. I do not know what the "engineering fix" was, exactly when it was implemented, nor the repairs that were made to existing coaches at that time. By the end of '03 the company was in dire straits and nearly folded.

There were many very good coaches built in 2000 and 2001 that had slides, if that is what you are interested in. And, there are many current Foreforum members who love their '03's despite the end cap issue. If having a slide or slides is not critical, some of the best coaches ever built by Foretravel were the Unicoaches from '97 to '01. Of course, I am partial to the Grandvillas, but "different strokes for different folks".

I don't think anyone is trying to hide anything regarding this issue, but I do know that the current owners were not aware of the extent and severity of the repair costs at the time (in '04) of company purchase.

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #13 – May 11, 2012, 11:40:59 pm

The craks were on the 2002 and 2003 units, James from Xtreme is a good person to call, since he doesn't work for the factory but has seen and repaired his share. James Triana at the factory would also be a good resource to call, or Mike Rodgers at MOT. John Christmans coach had them when he bought it a few years back, and he has first hand experience if he is still "listening" on the forum

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #14 – May 12, 2012, 06:08:16 am

My best advice is to do exactly what James Stallings is recommending.

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #15 – May 12, 2012, 07:59:47 am

I agree, talk to James.

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #16 – May 12, 2012, 08:39:09 am

FWIW the prior owner of my coach kept ALL of the receipts and service records in a binder which I have. My 2003 U270 which was built in 8/02 had the cap repair done under warrenty in Jan. of 2007.

The service invoice reads,

Front upper seam repair, removed cracked fiberglass, welded in reinforcement steel, installed foam, matted, glassed and primed for paint. =60hrs.

Rear cap seam repair, same as above, =60hrs.

Repaint seam crack repairs, =100hrs.

Reassemble coach after seam repairs and checked operation, =16hrs.

So I guess we can see that the cost to FOT for these repairs must have been huge with almost 240 man hrs. plus parts and material.

I was very happy to see that mine had been done and yes I have inspected the end caps and there is no sign of further cracking.

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #17 – May 12, 2012, 09:29:20 am

When I purchased my 02, I called Foretravel Service Department and they looked at the records and told me the date etc that the coach had the end caps repaired. You should be able to do the same thing. I think they will need the serial number or build number to look it up. They have been very helpful. If they service your coach they have a complete record of all work performed and when. All the cracks I have seen have always been in a straight line at the end caps starting on the top corners. If you have a coach which was not repaired by the factory back then you may or may not have the cracking issue. I think James Triana may know what build nrs were involved but not sure but he appears to have the construction knowledge since he was there during this time frame. He has been very helpful to Foretravel owners. DAN

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #18 – May 12, 2012, 10:36:48 am

As I reported earlier, Xtreme told me about $15k for what I called the permanent rear end cap fix. I speculated FOT did that to their financial detriment. Dan and Don gave more detail but getting a build number report from FOT sounds great way to go.

But look at the other option, what I called the temporary fix some do now (new filler). That seems a possible option. That repair involves sanding, filler and paint. It was offered to me at two dealers and each said it may last a long time, or not. One dealer said six years plus or minus given factors I was not sure of.

As some wrote, pay your money and take your
chances.

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #19 – May 12, 2012, 11:30:21 am

I guess my point here would be that most of these coaches still sell for a bit north of 100K. If even if not repaired, they are great values and a permanent repair is less than 15% of the cost of the coach. I would expect 'most' had the repair, as Foretravel was very liberal in its warranty policy and the issue was very well known. The new ownership assumed the repair liability when they acquired the company and continued performing repairs. The matter was 're-litigated' in a filing against the Fore family in a dispute over several things including a right of way, reported in the local press at the time. This matter was settled amicably and privately in a short period of time.

Just like the 'ISL', slide delamination and 'bulkhead' issues, an informed shopper can incorporate this knowledge and leverage it into his buying strategy. Foretravels are remarkably durable in a market crowded with lesser quality vehicles. Given a good deal I would not pass up an 02-03 coach. Although this was a time of struggle for the company, they still built a coach that was superior to just about all.

Of their 3 major competitors of the time (BlueBird, Country Coach, Newell) only Newell remains. All three suffered from overweight complaints. I still see the Foretravel as the most 'liveable' of these coaches followed closely be the CC Magna.

If you look at resale values for the last few years, Foretravel is still a bargain in comparison to most of these brands relative to original pricing. This is a change from 4-5 years ago. Then, Foretravels held an artificially high resale value. The collapse of the market brought them in line with the rest of the industry as bankruptcy turnover flooded the market at the same time that RV loan availability shrank.

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #20 – May 12, 2012, 08:08:44 pm

Not completely germane to this discussion, but for the record, the Blue Bird Wanderlodge overweight issue is only a problem with the M450 which was in production from 2005 thru 2008. All other Wanderlodge models are well within GVWR and all provide a very comfortable CCC margin. There's no weight issue for an entire 43 year period, from 1963 thru 2004. Skin is steel, endcaps starting in 1990 are FRP (structural fiberglass).

David Brady
'02 Wanderlodge, LXi
Series 60, Living Room Slide
NC

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #21 – May 13, 2012, 02:35:42 am

My 2003 is a late build from that year, and I suspect the steel reinforcement fix was done by the factory when it was originally built instead of as a repair. As I stated earlier, my coach has never had a repair done, and shows no sign of end cap cracking. I love the seamless look of both the body (with endcaps) and the one-piece slideout. I couldn't be happier having a 2003 Foretravel.

Re: Concerns regarding 2002-3 fiberglass cracking

Reply #22 – May 13, 2012, 10:13:03 pm

info/leads from pm'ers. thanks will get back here when I know more. You guys have been great, but I think for the benefit of all, some real solid base of info needs to be nailed down so the issue or questions can be put to rest. right now, i think questioning is still fine. ron

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